Think of them as "hired bodyguards for your pictures". Companies that provide personal protection services get paid, why shouldn't APIC?


What I do take issue with is the way they go about their business sometimes. Like I said earlier, I'd like to think some people deserve the benefit of the doubt instead of being shut down without first having the chance to address the accusations. In cases of clear-cut violation it's a non issue, but there are a lot of cases where it's NOT clear-cut.

last time i had a problem with apic, it was another webmaster. seems they had emailed apic complaining i was using their images. apic didnt even check up on it, just started blasting me. took forever to fix.

yeah, it's too difficult to patrol your own content. apic is the answer. not. i have roughly 35 HOURS of exclusive digital video on the net, and i don't need to hire unprofessional bullies to keep copyright violation under raps.

No, you're absolutely right. And, if your members are even the slightest bit loyal to your site and your work, they themselves will report illegal use to you. At least that has been the case with the few paysite owners I have worked directly with. None of them felt the need to seek out APIC's services either.


It would be nice to hear comments from someone that is a paying APIC member though, just to hear the other side.

And it's about shutting down celebrity fan sites (even those that DON'T have any unlicenced content) because they are competition for your own...

BTW, did anyone mention that Steve Easton used to run a celebrity site?

yes, members give us tips daily. so do other webmasters. as well, i work on it (along with one of my employees) as a part time job - looking at the members areas of other sites that might have a reason to 'borrow' content. it's very satisfying shutting down infingers :)

regardless of any effectiveness they might have - just take a look at the link i posted earlier on this thread. or kenny's predicament. it's a joke. anyway, i'm done with this topic.

I don't have any problem with providing proof of my license purchase to any sponsor that wants it after it has received a REAL complaint.

I do have a problem with the way APIC does things. They should list the stuff RAM pointed out. This type of stuff is REQUIRED uder the DMCA. I have filed several DMCA claims, and fail to see how it is so hard to do correctly.

Personally - I would never do business with them - too many stories about incompetence. They should be filing the form under the penalties of perjury - as required under DMCA (which doesn't even deal with sponsors - but with hosts).

I would love for some webmaster that gets canned to sue them. They need a good lesson. There is no reason they can't follow the DMCA instead of doing this (unless the host is in some country like Russia).

Here is my sample DMCA - one that I actually used with names and domains deleted out- request if anyone wants one:

ATTENTION:
DMCA CONTACT NAME - CAN GET FROM http://www.copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/
HOST'S NAME
HOST'S ADDRESS

FROM:
MY NAME
MY ADDRESS
MY PHONE NUMBER
MY EMAIL



Digital Millennium Copyright Act Notification

SUMMARY: Below is the info required by the DMCA. In short ? the pages listed are among a complicated scheme by at least two individuals to copy dozens and dozens of my sites that rank well in the search engines and interlink them all to try to duplicate my rankings. The pages they copied are protected under copyright law.

I am seeking that the following sites (all the default root/main page(s)) be disabled or removed ASAP:

A) [deleted]
B) [deleted]
C) [deleted]
D) [deleted]
E) [deleted]
F) [deleted]

These six sites (the main pages of each site) should be removed ASAP. Unless they respond with the format required under the law and signed under the penalties of perjury ? these six sites should be not be reinstated. Even if they do respond ? once you notify me of this ? I am allowed 10 days to file suit against them before you reinstate the pages. As I expect to continue legal action against them if they persist ? I ask that you follow the letter of the law and give me time to present a copyright suit before reinstating their sites.

Please let me know the status of my notification as soon as you can.

Pursuant to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. §512(c)(3)(A), I hereby notify you of the following:

1) A physical or electronic signature of a person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.

SEE BOTTOM #5 & #6

2) Identification of the copyrighted work claimed to have been infringed, or, if multiple copyrighted works at a single online site are covered by a single notification, a representative list of such works at that site.

The following pages belong to me and are among those infringed upon by those sites listed in #3 below. This is most likely not a complete list, but due to the complexity of their scheme ? it is the best I could come up with on short notice and is a representative sample of my sites they are infringing upon.

A) [deleted]
B) [deleted]


3) Identification of the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity and that is to be removed or access to which is to be disabled, and information reasonably sufficient to permit the service provider to locate the material.

Links on the following sites infringe upon dozens of my copyrighted works:

A) [deleted]
B) [deleted]
...
DD) [deleted]
EE) [deleted]

4) Information reasonably sufficient to permit the service provider to contact the complaining party, such as an address, telephone number, and, if available, an electronic mail address at which the complaining party may be contacted.

MY NAME
MY ADDRESS
MY PHONE NUMBER
MY EMAIL

5) A statement that the complaining party has a good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law.

I have a good faith belief that the use of the material complained of is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law.



_____________________
MY NAME

6) A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.

I hereby swear and affirm above under the penalty of perjury that the above information is accurate and that I am authorized to act on behalf of the copyright owner of an exclusive right that has been infringed.




_____________________
MY NAME
DATED: 05/28/2002


Just sign it and fax it over.

I understand now why content protection service is important, but cutting out a flow of income should not be the first methond of action, I mean what if I was using another sponsor that would completely delete my account at APIC's request, and what if I needed that money to feed my children?
Actually they accused me of being a thief before confronting me first, thats how a true asshole acts

FUCK APIC

I'm not really comfortable with TopBuck's policy on this one.

DMCA is US law. And in the US, the burden of proof is on the accuser. Innocent until proven guilty and all of that good stuff.

You should give the webmaster the opportunity to provide you with a copy of his or her content license, BEFORE you take any kind of action against them.

And remember, its the webmasters that are putting $$$ in your bank account, NOT APIC.

sue apic

For defacement of charcter? Should I file a law suite?

Like Hyper said mistakes do happen. The original conept of APIC is pretty good - but they should have better procedures. I liked them when i started using legal content :thumbsup

Shut down my hosting / sponsors or whatever when you receive an order from the court AFTER having my day in court and the accuser having proved beyond a reasonable doubt that I am in the wrong.

When did the US legal system get replaced??

Funny how the moment a few people started calling Top Bucks inadequate and started questioning there methods.and a few other posts along those lines Alison has disappeared. I think there policy is about as effective as that shit entry console they have...

I had APIC send one of those emails to me a while back on content I bought from Charlie at Jokersx ....

I was pissed to say the least .... The crew at Jokersx where brilliant and super fast to clear the matter up ... I think Scotty from Jokersx was mader than I was.
In short JOkers were BRILLIANT !

Same can not be said for APIC, I recieved a reply from APIC saying "sorry for the error we have a new staff member". What a lame ass crock of SHIT reply that was ... FUCK ME if your business fucked up do you just blame your staff ? ... its your business you run it YOU FUCKED UP!!!

And as for TOP BUCKS ... bad business folks is all I can say .... ASk your webmaster who is busting his balls to make a $ first before you pull the rug. Deactive accounts, bullshit he may have a gallery primed for many sales while in de activation mode and lost hard earned sales ....

No kidding imagine you just bought a paid listing on thehun (paid host) and your topbucks sponsor account was deactivated over a false claim.
Scary shit.
Though it won't make any difference to topbucks but I've decided not to do any business with them. There are simply too many sponsors to choose from & a company who is willing to sell out the webmaster isn't worth my traffic. Even though I don't have tons of traffic I would rather it go to a company who is willing to ASK the webmaster first if a problem comes up.

If you guys read what Allison said - the account still gets clicks and sales credited. They should of handled it better with the webmaster - and the admited that.

The webmaster didn't lose any money.

I am sure (or hopeful) - they will handle it differently in the future.

To their credit - when I asked Allison to can a webmaster about a month ago - she replied saying:

"Hi Chris,

Thanks for letting us know about this webmaster.
We have contacted him and requested that
he remove the stolen designs from his site....."

There was more to it - and I generally don't like to post emails, but I think that TopBucks just screwed up on this one in the way they communicated with the webmaster.

Different companies have different policies on how they deal with it.

Topbucks doesnt terminate the account, it puts it on hold until it's straightened out with the webmaster.

Lensman does not, but i am sure if he gets the proof he needs, then the account will be terminated.

I think all webmaster programs need to clarify this in theit TOS and Faqs.

Rather than to blame someone for not handling this situation the way you want.

We need to learn from this experience and grow from it, so there is no misunderstandings in the future when it comes to dealing with APIC

I agree - it would be nice if all sponsors would have a link on their front page that said something like "copyright violations? click here."

Then they could put down what was required and so on.

Something like google has for the DMCA:

http://www.google.com/dmca.html

But not as complicated - as it wouldn't be for the DMCA.

.

Anybody know the APIC URL?

That is NOT what she said....she said they can block an account
without losing data....the way I understand it is that the already
recorded data will not be lost.

If hits/sales are still counted.....then explain me what blocked
means......To me it sounds that the history is saved nothing more.

DynaMite :2 cents:

Oh I forgot something.....


FUCKING APIC COCKSUCKING MORRONS!!!! I WOULDN´T
EVEN LET YOU EAT MY SHIT YOU COMPLETE BUNCH OF IDIOTS!!!


So ready.....I feel better now!

DynaMite :thumbsup

That's what i figured. It's great that the integrity of the webmaster never comes into play, and the worst is assumed from the git go. If that is the case, and clicks and sales are not counted during the temporary deactivation period, then that is very shitty indeed. So until the webmaster proves his innocence (rather than the shitheads at APIC proving his guilt. Hell, why should they have to prove anything, they can just fling accusations left right and centre and attempt to fuck people over!), the account should remain fully active.

I thought it was obvious to everyone that APIC are a pack of useless gits. That thread where he accused Lensman of supporting cheating webmasters is a prime example.

APIC, go fuck yourselves.
Topbucks, i sincereley hope that you see why this would be an issue with webmasters, and hopefully you'll deal with similar situations in the future differnetly.

"APIC can be wrong, but with the system we have here at TopBucks we can easily work it out when they are wrong. We are able to deactivate accounts temporarily without losing any info or sales data for the webmaster."

Maybe you are right - I took it as meaning what I said, but I can see what you are saying about why call it blocked then. I wasn't reading it that way, but one could for sure.

Whatever it means - Hopefully they will work it out - TopBucks has been always more than fair in my experience.

Steve at APIC does not just act without provocation, he normally has recieved a complaint from one of his members. He does not bother with the content of his non members.

You can see the respect your sponsor has for him in the speed they pulled your site. They did not even ask you, they pulled you, so think about that when you are reading all these idiots posting anti APIC posts. If you are a producer who do you want watching your back a pussy cat or a bulldog?

But you can sort it out.

Do you know that Zip content have the license?
Are you contravening the license by the way you are posting them?
You do not know the history of this content, find it out. Do you hold the Model Releases and IDs.
Post a picture I may even be able to tell you who shot it.

Make sure of your facts first, then email APIC, your sponsor and ZIP all the info.

Respect. Interesting point you raise there Charly. Where's Kenny's respect? I'm sure he's worked hard promoting his site and topbucks' sites along with it.

Or are his rights completely null and void once APIC rears it's ugly head?

You want someone firm but not someone who acts like an unprofessional bully.
Do you agree the way they acted with Lensman was unprofessional?
They don't seem to handle things well and act too hostile.
You need someone to protect your content but APIC acts in a very immature & bully-like mannor.

If APIC is so wonderful then explain why they didn't e-mail the guy they had a beef with? Instead of getting his side of the story they instantly tried to fuck his source of income......If you deal with those scum bags I sure as hell won't buy content from you.

Oh please do it that way. That would be perfect.

APIC is not infallible, they do make mistakes. But not very often.

An infringer may operate out of his loft on a rented computer, but the host and sponsor is not, they have money to lose. So when he?s had his day in court and lost his rented computer. The sponsor, host and everyone else that was making a profit from the illegal act has had to pay out big time.

The Internet is full of people stealing content as if it?s ?Public domain? APIC is the only organization I have seen protecting us producers.

Go to the site and see who belongs to them.

http://www.apic-adult.com/board/addmessage.html

Including me. So if you buy content from me and it?s being posted illegally, I stop it with an email.

Anyone here remember the thread about the Content Provider auctioning his site on Ebay? Do you know who removed the guy and got him shut down? APIC

OK in the 6 years has there been one other organisation to get the respect/fear of the sponsors, hosts, etc.

Yes APIC screwed up with Lensman, but I see the emails that go back and forth between APIC and the people stealing my content. APIC is hard through necessity.

Criticize all you like but show me the alternative PLEASE. Better still you start up an alternative. Not going to do either? Therefore do not critisise.

Fine buy content from someone who does not cover you and your purchases. And when you find someone has stolen your site and tells you to GFY when you ask him to take it down. You will learn.

I had a guy do that to me, stole loads of my content and never responded to an email. Within 3 hours his site was down. Just emailed his host. He offered to buy the content the next day. Told him to GFY. LAC come up with an alternative, the internet has made APIC what it is, not visa versa. And please do not threaten me with not buying my content, some of the big guys buy my content BECAUSE I protect it with APIC

but they still shave like 50% of signups, yeah?

The alternative is what quiet does. Like he said, works for him. And he doesn't have to deal with a bunch of incompetant morons like APIC.

cum on charly you sound like a fucking tv shop seller trying to sell a no good hairgrowth product...

I've had my share of problems with copyright violaters BUT i would never use APIC and I always contact webmaster first!

I wouldn't buy your content because I'm looking for japanese girls for a paysite. LOL. You only have European girls right?
I don't really care about APIC issues cause I don't rip content.

I understand you use APIC because no one else to choose from unless you wish to take each case to court yourself.

LoveAsianChicks is right - I saw the letter they sent to lensman and would have never believed it was written by an attorney.

Pretty unprofessional organization and not too bright either if they aren't willing to provide basic details as to what copyright was being violated.

Content producers deserve someone that will follow the law and file legitimate DMCA & other complaints on their behalf.

My mother can get someone shut off of an ebay auction. I have done it dozens of times.

Here was the APIC thread with Lensman:

http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/showth...highlight=APIC

The stuff they produced was amazing - such as amateur pages "supports approximately 50% of the theft of copyrights"

They are just used to bullying everyone to get their way.

I always license my content. I believe in the rights of content producers, but you guy deserve better.

Charly - this will be my last post on this thread but I do have a serious question.

If APIC thought kenny was stealing content why would they go straight to his sponsor and get his account put on hold, before even contacting Kenny?
Isn't that a little severe when they have not heard Kenny's side of the story?

Didn't the Hun post a javascript that he uses to fuck people over. Something like loading the offenders page in the background of every viewer at thehun.net, and thus bring the offender to his knees, and cost lots in bandwidth?

all haters of apic should do the same to the apic graphics on all the TGP's they submit everyday.


They have a 76K Gif on thier site. If that loaded up 1 pixel by 1 pixel on every page you generage, and get 500,000 page views per day........

Imagine if 10-25 webmasters did that!!!

lol

Just trying to stir up shit!

The problem with APIC is not a few mistakes....but the numerous
ones....and on top of that...pretty fucking unbelievable how they
react on stuff...if people would get really pissed off in each letter
from APIC there can be found at least 5 valid reasons for sueing
them for slander.

That combined with their TOTAL lack of knowledge of this
industry makes them complete worthless bunch of lame ass
assholes.....yes I know now can sue me aswell.:1orglaugh

I understand as content producer and owner of content you
need some organisation to look after you....but I seriously
doubt if APIC is the organisation to go with.

I for sure would never wanted to have my business associated
with those assholes not for a minute!

I agree that there is no real good alternative...which is the root
of the whole problem....once there will be an alternative APIC
is history...and for our industry an alternative can´t come soon
enough...

APIC has done already more than enough damage.

DynaMite
:2 cents:

Here's another thought (I can't stop thinking this week for some reason)..... What if you (paul) adjusted your method slightly, and first emailed the webmaster of the site that you feel is using your content without your permission? If they remove the content or have a reasonable explanation for you, then the problem is solved, no? But if you get no reply or action within 24 hours or the webmaster tells you to GFY, then you would send that email to APIC and release the hounds.

I'm not saying it's all about protecting assholes that are really raping you of your content, because I'm all for those people getting what they deserve. My concern is for hardworking honest webmasters that have been wrongly accused, like Kenny, or let's say someone that had a dishonest partner or whatever. I would rather clear up a misunderstanding first before firing with both barrels at someone. Wouldn't you?

I lied I'll post again. I was hoping for Charly to reply to my last msg & explain why APIC would contact Kennys sponsor before hearing from Kenny first.
I guess it takes time to think up a long excuse for those APIC bullies.
Anyway night night charly.

Ok my :2 cents:

I work for a hosting company and deal with the apic requests so this is from my expeirience.

1. Apic has sent (x) number of letters so far talking about copyright out of those letters I have closed down 1 - one account.

The rest were webmasters who was able to show license agreements with the content providers or a payapl reciept of some sort.

Or like in the one case APIC sent me a letter telling me to take down a site and the site was of an amateur doing her own content much like Nina. (that one was a joke) The girl turned her web cam on for me to chat with her while she told me all about how APIC was wrong.

2. APIC always goes to hurt the webmasters first. Out of all the complaints I have dealt with none (0) of the cases had any contact directly between APIC and the webmaster.

I think someone like lawpal should step up to the plate and provide an alternative to APIC and the first thing is the wbmasters that have been wrongly accused should file a class action suit. I know there is more than enough evidence for this.


TopBucks ... I'm new with a tgp and I am adding sponsors on a daily basis but your answers here totally swayed me to stay away from your program. The fact that you put a webmasters account on hold stopping all sales while you hash this out with the webmaster is wrong. The time it takes to setup trades and traffic and everything else to be put down the drain over an APIC accusation that turns out to be false and lose all sales while the account is on hold is enough for me to take you off my list.

Yes we need reform on this issue.

:2 cents:

( *puts on his Devil's Advocate hat* )

APICS - excellent idea, poorly executed.

I'm surprised no-one else has set up a similar organisation...

OR...

Could it be that content providers don't mind lots of webmasters getting fucked over by APICS poor quality service 'cos they are fed up getting fucked over themselves and no longer care what happens to webmasters?

( *takes off hat...* )

Seems this thread is turning into more of an APIC bashing, but I just wanted to quickly respond to a few people who posted earlier and seemed to not see my remark about TopBuck's policy or not understand.

TopBucks policy is to respond to APIC's complaint by <b>temporarily deactivating</b> the webmaster's account (not terminating) and contacting the webmaster with the option to either provide license info or to remove the pictures. We work with the webmaster to get the issue resolved and then reactivate the account with <b>ABSOLUTELY NO LOSS OF SALES/CLICK DATA</b> for the webmaster. The temporary deactivation allows us to still track data, but prevents the webmaster from logging into their account so they realize that something is wrong and should contact us (if they didn't already see the email)

By taking this action it is much more likely that the webmaster will respond and work with us on fixing the problem. Kristin's original email was unclear about our policy and we do admit that and will make sure our policy is completely clear in the future.

Thanks,

~Alli

:thumbsup

Allison excuse me but TopBucks first response should be to see if APIC contacted that webmaster ... or is TopBucks an enforcer for APIC.

Thats like me calling someones boss complaining they didn't pay me. Which BTW is an illegal practice.

You may want to check laws on your policy also Allison they can land your company in a law suit if someone is disabled wrongfully and he can prove a sales loss due to it.

:2 cents:

Allison --- Thank you for clarifying the Topbucks policy for everyone.

However, my previous suggestion is still hanging in mid-air here, which was on the previous page.... Doesn't contacting first and deactivating second sound more reasonable? It doesn't really matter that no data or clicks/sales are lost, it's really the statement that having one's account deactivated sends to webmasters. "Nuke first and ask questions later" just won't fly with most professionals.

I would be very tempted to drop any program that treated me this way.

Ya, sorry allison, i understand your resoning, but your still accusing your webmasters of being thieves because of a letter from APIC which has been known to be wront often. I certainly wouldnt use you after recieving one of your letters. In fact, i wouldnt use you now at all.

You really should treat your webmasters with a little more respect.

Oh well, i have an election to rig in Equador. Be back in a few hours after results are in.

Everything is tracked during deactivation status so there is nothing to worry about on that end.

The webmaster is just unable to log into their account during deactivation.

APIC is usually correct when they contact us about a webmaster using unlicensed content. I believe APIC contacts the sponsors and hosts because those are 2 companies the webmaster will listen to and work with because webmasters want their money and they don't want to lose their hosting. I would imagine that if APIC did not have the support of hots/sponsors they would be pretty much useless as webmasters would have nothing to lose by using stolen content unless legal action is taken (which is often unlikely in small cases)

~Alli

obviously they bank off the law suits
probably 5 - 10%