Yes, I love that they are exposing a (potentially) shaving program

12clicks doesn't think its necessarily good that no one outs canned programs and affiliates.

wow we agree on something!

john is a cockhead and has a big ego problem. that will be what sinks his ship. not the product because it is a good product.. but the man behind the product.

unlike me, since i am perfect and can do no wrong, i dont kill affliates accts cause they mouth off to me. thats just plain stupid.

I was just about to say that my posts above were personal due to a personal dislike for the person, not the product. Fuck.. some of my best money makers use that product..

I've worked with the man for many years and never had ONE problem with him. What's your problem?

seems his activities of being arrogrant & cocky, & being condescening towards people is starting to backlash against him..

Since when has he been considered arrogant, cocky and condescending? You said you didn't like him until AFTER this thing came out, and as far as I know you've never had any dealings with him personally or professionally. I'm just wondering what you're basing this opinion on?

AND since when is being arrogant and cocky considered a bad trait by anyone from Epiccash?

that spacedog guy looks like he has something agaisnt john not sure but on other drama thread about this he seem to be active lol

hmmmmn, having talked to John, had dinner with him, chat on icq with him, 12clicks has never seen arrogance.

And 12clicks knows arrogance.

First off.. get your facts straight,, I am only an affiliate of epiccash & have nothing to do with their staff,,

2.. I did not say I didnt like him til after this thing.. I have never liked his condescending attitude .. go re-read the post.. nowhere do I say such things., you are starting to post in the same manner he did

3) as far as business dealings, go read the post where I mentioned them (Nats staff) being cocky on the phone.. I spoke to nats, mpa & ccbill all the same day.. nats was the only one that was arrogant., the only one to say fuck to me on the phone,, the only one that was rude..

Of course I can't say so with total certainty, but I have a strong suspicion this is 100% bullshit.

I believe Trey once said he wanted to fuck my (deceased) mother. Do you see me crying about it?

So, what does trey wanting to fuck a corpse have to do with the way nats personell post on boards that are in a cocky & condescending manner?

Go read the past nats threads,, in many of the threads where anyone questions the stability of the product, the staff seems to get uppity & defensive & go on making flippant remarks to people.. & I personally held against him irresponsible & rude statements he made in regards to myself..

Sure , this is gfy & almost all of us do such things just the same, however, MOST & very FEW program owners, reps, etc ever behave in such a manner, unlike the subject matter at hand..

Without a question I'd use them.

The sound of axes grinding is deafening...

There is no point arguing whether NATS should act as an arbiter of business ethics. They chose to market their software that way, which in view of the backlash again Mansion, was likely a smart move. But smart or not, that was their choice. End of story.

Similarly there have been lots of excuses made as to why the phonecall which started all this was answered so unprofessionally. But I haven't seen any excuses for why the guy couldn't have pulled his car over as soon as he realized what an ass he had been and made a return call to get the matter dealt with. No-one has claimed that John came to the board despite an attempt by Xclusive to work this out, so what exactly should John have done? Thrown away one of his biggest marketing tools as soon as it hit a speed bump?

How long would it have been before one of the people reporting discrepancies to NATS had come to the boards? Why should John have put his business on the line for someone who swore and hung up on him?

Attempting to put even a part of the blame on NATS also ignores the way Xclusive handled this badly all the way through. If this was all just a technical glitch, even after it hit the boards they could have got together with NATS, sorted the issue out, then jointly reported that everything was now fine and the problems had been resolved. Instead, their actions couldn't have been calculated to better reinforce the idea that the discrepancies were more than just a software hiccup.

I haven't a clue whether John could fairly be described as "arrogant and cocky", but even if yes, I don't see any relevance to this issue.

Hoop, good post, I laughed - your wiser it seems in your old age, a liberal at heart :)

Bernie, good seeing you around mano.

KK, words to the wise as usual....

Ron (12) are you talking in 3rd person?? :)


I have no dog in this hunt at all, always had good biz dealings with John, never a problem..

I can understand all sides really. I wouldn't of posted though - I would of asked counsel before hand.. tough for all sides and legal fees add up quick :(

I guess you didn't get the memo. It is now the official function of all Epiccash sigwhores to school us on decorous behavior.

Since they're so intelligent, rational and polite, you know....

Who knows what really has been said in that phonecall? Only 2 people really know what's been said and who was the bigger jerk in that magicall phonecall. And offcourse they will both bend the truth to their advantage.

First off, you don't seem to know me to well, or at all for that matter,, I have NEVER had a sponsor banner in my sig til now, with the exception of the pussycash contest several months ago.... shit, just put that banner up 2 days ago & you're calling me a sig whore.. .. in 5 years, this is only the 2nd time I ever had a sponsor banner in my sig.. :1orglaugh

If the NATS version was far off, the guy from XClusive would have said so in his response here. Instead, he wrote only about being under pressure because of having to drive instead of fly and otherwise glossed over the conversation.

I would also guess from the very careful phrasing of that first post, that if not actually expecting legal action, John regarded it as a possibility. We don't know exactly what words were exchanged, but I would be surprised if he reported the substance inaccurately.

ok so you haven't been a sigwhore until two days ago. I guess that makes you....

a sigwhore.

he didnt want todo business with me because of my 'board persona' thats my problem with him.

thats taking money out of his own pocket and just plain stupid. ofcoarse he changed his mind, cause money buys everyone in the end..

watch this comment get the programs i am involved in get suspended and held hostage

lol

lol did i really?

is/was she hot?

well, ok.. I guess so.. :1orglaugh

I thought NATS was an industry standard? If so and they engaged in something controversial I'm sure it should be resolved amicably if possible.

no need to be shitty, the only 2 dicks that are with epiccash are myself and jimthefiend. and we have about 12 ppl that work here.

i can be a dick because i want to be a dick. jimthefiend is a dick, well because he didnt get passed the 2nd grade and its all he really knows. he didnt learnt no bettah in de woodz

oh shit.. that's exactly same thing he said to me, & that was long, long before I even had a board persona, lol....


& that's why I say he's a hypocrite.. look at his own board persona.. the persona of a cocky fuck..

You can't blame people for not initially wanting to get involved with you because of your persona, that's just common sense on their part. As for changing his mind because of money ~ that's what we're here for right?

Programs getting suspended because of you? John's a PROFESSIONAL. That would never even cross his mind.

For me reputation is very important - especially in an online industry when you only meet people mabey a few times per year at shows. I just would of handled this a little different if it had of been my company.

1. See errors - problems with dbase stats / info

2. Call / email customer and explain problem we are seeing, do you see the problem or have an answer to the problem.

3. If customer gets upset / doesn't or can't help, do 1 more check / if same conclusions - call call customer again and let said customer know that we need this fixed / changed asap or we will have to suspend your license. Customer gets upset / cocky and hangs up

4. Send customer an email and a letter via Fedex or US Mail (Certified Return Reciept) saying you have so many days to get this fixed, or whatever we need from you or your license is over.

5. If I am worried that customer might "Strike" first, and I don't want my software / companies rep to be harmed anymore than it might be anyways, make 1 post but just say we are having issues with 1 companies software, dbase problems, etc We are only letting you know this as we strive to be the best software out there, blah, blah, no shaving, etc. Don't have to mention said customers name, of course people will ask but at least you came there and posted - so if it turns around and comes back at you - well..... plus of course said customer will know you are talking about them, then the ball is in there court to fix and conform..

To be ohnest I wouldn't have posted really at all.. Let them make the first strike if they were going to and come back heavy.. Dunnooo.

Sucks for alll.. easy to play arm chair QB..

simple solution, just make a better product than them and take their market share from them and put em out of biz.. end of problem

all that was proven was that the "you can't shave with nats" is a myth.
then again
no one but sheep believed anything any different.

better get cracking, you got a lot of work to do.

you are NOT an expert in this business. Don't kid yourself.

been in development for nearly a year homie.. dont worry

btw, with our version you can shave and its an upgrade and we will make that publicly known :)

who would trust you with their traffic? Your board persona is too big a liability to overcome.

I would never leave nats.
they have always been honest and will continue to be.
duke

who would trust me with their traffic?

aparantly quite alot you moron lol

how else would epiccash be as big as it is?

we dont do 20-30 sales a day you twit.

fact remains that we have made alot of people alot of money and continue todo so through various revenue streams.

epiccash isnt my only asset dipstick.

lol I don't care man... how you make your money means dick to me, how much you have means even less because I got plenty of my own homie.

When you make it your mission to offend as many people as possible, don't cry about it when people get offended. I expected better from you.

Did 12clicks watch the "Jimmy" episode of Seinfeld recently by chance?