:Oh crap :Oh crap :Oh crap *blushes*

We live by many things that are not explicitly stated or that don't appear anywhere in the Constitution. Although I've always considered "seperation of Church and State" to be a misnomer - in reality one invariably influences the other. But I do believe that the founding fathers intended the nation to be "a nation of secular laws." That is what we are whether she likes it or not. We don't follow religious law thankfully. Concepts derived from religion have found there way into our laws because they're fundamental, for example that murder is wrong (in the bible it's a sin). Another reason why I think the founding fathers intended secular law is because they protected religious freedom. The bible might conflict with the Koran which might conflict with practices in some other religion. It is the law of the land that they must all conform to, not the other way around.

How would she condemn Muslim fundamentalism in other nations if she believes religion should dictate government and laws in this country?

exactly...

believing in god and being a christian are completely unrelated. you answered my question though, thanks.

There would have been no need to even create a Constitution if we were not intended to be a nation of securlar laws. We'd just follow the rules in some religious doctrine.

Sorry that doesnt even make sense. The Bible isnt a book with laws set in it. There are guidelines to follow as far as morals, but the Bible even says that men are supposed to govern men.

Fair enough. How about the other points?

Do other religions say that men are supposed to govern men? Do other religious books have laws in them or all just moral codes - who interprets what differentiates between a law and moral code?I don't think that the Founding Fathers ever explicitly protected religous freedom only for the Bible. Thus I think one of the purposes of the Constitution was to lay down ground rules apart from any religion.

There is a seperation of church and state as in. The Church doesnt directly dictate laws to our government, and our government doesnt dictate to our Church in the decisions they make. That was what was intended. For those that forget, the Pilgrams came to the new world to escape religious persectution, so they could practice as they believed. There is no state enforced Church. That was what the founders were scared of happening.

Sure what religion is currently persecuted by the government?

That's what we've all been saying in this thread. She is saying there is no seperation and that Church should be allowed to dictate law or "sin" to our government. We're saying that's not what was intended.

In your own words:

"There is a seperation of church and state ... The Church doesnt directly dictate laws to our government"

"There is a seperation of church and state ... The Church doesnt directly dictate laws to our government... that is what was intended"

Exactly

I would use the word belief instead of religion. Although a particular religion is not called out, set of beliefs that don't follow traditional Christian values are often persecuted.

Religions and our government persecute homosexuals, pornographers, and others with different beliefs and lifestyles everyday.

Classic "issue" :1orglaugh

While the rest of the world lives - the US is preoccupied with fucking "issues" - gay marriage, abortion, church/state. whatever.

Who gives a fuck?? Govt's are elected to build fucking roads and other infrastructure and maintain these - collect and spend taxes wisely - na nausea.

Their personal opinions and beliefs have nothing to do with road building or taxes. Elect a govt that has a clue and knows the meaning of "serve" :thumbsup

I think more countries than just the US are at least partly occupied with such issues (in reality these are still very lowkey issues in the US compared to war, healthcare, etc). Government plays a fundamental role not only in infrastructure but in upholding the law of the land to protect citizens, and that involves peoples' behaviors, lifestyles, and ultimately values - sometimes religion.

Man.. only ever come across this bullshit in the US - never in any other country. Sure can't think of any western country who are preoccupied with eg church/state. They have better shit to be doing.

Sure, there may be "auras" of stuff that has little to do with govts or road building - but so insignificant.

I'd add - any bullshit relating to laws and religion and where there is an agenda, would be thrown out of any court - it not a topic on the table. Most countries in the western world have a judiciary miles away from any political agenda and a standard of qualified judgement unrelated to any personal beliefs of judges. Even "third world countries" often have this "standard" - seen it in action a few times locally.

Mike33:

One kinda "novel" aspect in some areas where there is what could be described as "real democracies" is...

When the legislature has messed around with whatever new laws, this is then passed to the highest court, where the judiciary review the proposed law to ensure that that is, in fact, "legal". Anything that imposes on the rights of citizens is an obvious target - imposing on "individual rights" are often a reason for the rejection of proposed laws. These rights are obviously wide-ranging in nature - but keep any warped legislature in line :)

Right, but that is more by design than by law. The Church however does support canidates that have the same ideas and morals that Christians do. That is how our system works. Those who want a say have the opportunity. There is no law that dictates a seperation of church and state. That is unable to be contested. That was my point from the get go. If you'll notice though alot of people threw it around like it was a set in stone law, when in fact it does not even exist. I just tire of hearing it brought up like its the truth, when in fact Katharine Harris is correct in saying it is a lie.

For someone so for the U.S. staying out of issue, you sure like to poke your nose into a country you dont live in's business. :2 cents:

That is in keeping with your usual troll trash and no substance.

Don't fucking make it an issue and nobody will pay the slightest attention.

The only reason there is any interest is because it's so fucking absurd and funny to see idiots get in a desperate frenzy to prove a point.

Hmm are you going to ask who I know in congress to get to the bottom of it? rofl. Or maybe who I know at GQ?

No frezny. I proved my point in the first few posts. Im simply responding to others asking questions.

are you really that hateful of the US? where does this tunnel vision that you and directfiesta have come from? why can you only say negative things about the US and no where else? why do "anti-USA" threads attract your immediate attention and pulls your compulsive trigger to post negative things and only negative things about one country only?

EVERY FUCKING COUNTRY has similar, central political issues that are debated constantly.
:disgust


i am far from a flag waver. actually, i dont care at all to even live here. i prefer living in europe. but jesus christ, don't you see how biased and one sided you are?

http://www.paulkidby.com/images/badges/idiot.png

PS; what happened to " dotnet " .... ???? was to goofy ... :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Hey moron, why do you run away as soon as your are exposed as an idiot ...

I don't care about church, the US internal policy, ...

You can fuck yourself up to the ass, thru the throat , I don't give a shit as long as you do it to each other .... You can even blow yourself up , as long as it stays in your 48 contiguous states ....

I only care when you fucking idiots take actions that has repercussions on others than americans ...

So shove that up your ass, Mr. Know it all .... :321GFY :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...6&postcount=37

treaty of tripoli a government document,it states the united states is not a Christian nation. Sorry Sticky

the U.S. Constitution with the passing of the Bill of Rights containing the First Amendment. The clause of the First Amendment that adopted the founders' principles of separation of church and state and freedom of religion is known as the Establishment Clause. It states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."

Its amazing how they dont see their own blatant hate for America. :2 cents:

... Why do you hate AmeriKa ?????

The one of Bush and his idiotics supporters ?????

I lost a great friend in 2000, and that was the USA ... :2 cents:

And I stayed out of this thread because I don't care what you do inside your own fucking borders ....

Exactly.
Whats that mean? It means that the government will not make a law that makes a religion that the people have to adhere to. They havent have they?

The second part is. That means they cant make a law restricting people (ANY PERSON ANYWHERE AT ANY TIME) From practicing their religion as they see fit.

Now then whats your point again?

Hateful? Biased? Moi??? :1orglaugh

I already said - I don't give a shit. It has nothing to do with hate or bias.

Unless you are a totally blind man walking in the dark it only takes one braincell to see the stupidity of "US issues" - clearly, they are an obsession.

Want to discuss any great "contraversies" over church and state in Brazil? UK? Canada?? The threads on this board are full of em - don't understand why you never noticed.

Bottom line? It's fucking boring reading constant dribble and spewage over one country's domestic preoccupations - apart from amusement value - don't give a shit.

No Tony doesnt hate America. You do. He loves America (imo) just disagrees with some of the existing policies. He has that right as an American, and I support him fully in his right to speak out for what he believes.

He doesnt spell America with a K, or spout hateful language about his country. You however have a smug pathetic little "Im better than you" demeanor about you that everyone sees through. You are just lucky we dont spend our time pointing out all the issues in Canada. You and Webby are quite the pair.

Then please stay out of threads discussing American issues and politics. K thx bye!

It's time to get your diapers or whatever, frilly panties changed and grow up.

Any self-respecting person can speak for themselves - they don't need a naive kid to help them out.

I was never here to satisfy your wishes - more for amusement while having a coffee. Carry on.. :winkwink:

Must suck to be you. Thats all I know. Id rather be dirt poor eating dried corn to survive, than ever ever be as snide, pompus, and hateful as you.

Go drink your coffee out with your horses on your huge expansive ranch. :1orglaugh

My... so sorry you feel that way my little chap :1orglaugh

Would you nice some nice cookies and a glass of milk?

No... that's too far - the office is fine for amusement value, but thanks for the consideration :winkwink:

shoo fly.

tut tut tut - did momma not tell you how to behave? :1orglaugh

Shit.. Is this a retard thread :1orglaugh

It could have had value and sense if there was any valid and open comment with sense - but that was never possible with utter ignorance and patriotic retardness popping up.

Fortunately Young Sticky - the majority of your countrymen have more sense than you, and, perhaps, one day when you grow up, you too can have this.

Have a nice day :thumbsup

What he said

the US will be a much better place now that the 3rd and 4th world has weighed in with an opinion on whats important and whats not.

Ok smart guy. Show me one place in the AMERICAN constitution where it mentions seperation of church and state. You cannot do it, as it does not exist. Say whatever you will in your snide pompus tone. If you care to refute me do it. Instead you will go off on a long winded, go nowhere rant about how your 3rd world country is better than the U.S. and you are smarter than anyone living here that agrees with how it is being run. But hell Im all for second chances. Prove me wrong. Show me where Im wrong. Show me where seperation of church and state exists in any of the founding documents, or in the amendments to those documents. Show me where a law exists that pronounces there is a true seperation of church and state.

Prove me wrong.

Beliz eh? lol

You missed the 1st and 2nd world from your post - they can't all be wrong :winkwink:

Listen Young Sticky - If you for one fucking moment think I'm even going to have *any* discussion with a warped retard minority ass - you are sadly mistaken.

I'm almost finished my coffee now and got better shit to be doing - more relevant than the constitution of the US - or you.

If does not take a braincell to see you have problems and sure do not represent either your country or much else too well. Perhaps that may change when you grow up - who knows? I'm sure you are a nice fellow blah, but sure is pointless talking inane crap over "US issues" with ya. Keep up at that rate and you'll still be debating them as the country goes bust.

Just as I predicted thats hysterical. You have no answer because IM RIGHT admit it.

Here is Webby drinking his coffee in his swank 3rd world house.

http://grandstreetnews.com/images/Murray_cheeks.jpg

btw grow up? lol 33 is grown enough to know you are a pompus ass. :2 cents:

You feeling hysterical now? I never knew you were that unbalanced.

Right? Oh my - you do assume sooo much :1orglaugh :1orglaugh


PS... I may be a pompus ass - ain't that nice? :winkwink: But can assure you that's only with arrogant assholes like you - you deserve it so much :1orglaugh