Rep. Katherine Harris: "Church-state separation 'a lie' "

[CybermedAndy]

"MIAMI, Florida (AP) -- U.S. Rep. Katherine Harris told a religious journal that separation of church and state is "a lie" and God and the nation's founding fathers did not intend the country be "a nation of secular laws."

The Republican candidate for U.S. Senate also said that if Christians are not elected, politicians will "legislate sin," including abortion and gay marriage."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/....ap/index.html

Will someone please run this babbling douchebag zealot over with a bus already

[stickyfingerz]

Hate to jump in here, but Seperation of church and state is not on any goverment document. If it is feel free to post it.

[Tom_PM]

Ah, how to cater to special interests 101!

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by MoneyBetsAndy

The Republican candidate for U.S. Senate also said that if Christians are not elected, politicians will "legislate sin," including abortion and gay marriage."

She has soooo been on my poopy list for a long time now. This just cements her place on it eternal.

I hope the bitch gets cancer from that ugly ass cheap makeup she's always wearing..............

[detoxed]

interesting read

[germ]

lol republicans.

[spazlabz]

seperation of church and state is a Marxist ideal

however it sounds like it would work really well here!

Katie Harris is a freak


spaz

[StuartD]

I think that if these people really believe as much as they say they do, they should all be crucified. Follow their leader's example.

[stickyfingerz]

Im betting no one posts a link to, or an example of, where seperation of church and state can be found in the constitution.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Im betting no one posts a link to, or an example of, where seperation of church and state can be found in the constitution.

I bet you can't show me where in the consitution you are supposed to be able to own ANY gun you wish.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by GatorB

I bet you can't show me where in the consitution you are supposed to be able to own ANY gun you wish.

Stop dodging.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by MoneyBetsAndy

"MIAMI, Florida (AP) -- U.S. Rep. Katherine Harris told a religious journal that separation of church and state is "a lie" and God and the nation's founding fathers did not intend the country be "a nation of secular laws."

The Republican candidate for U.S. Senate also said that if Christians are not elected, politicians will "legislate sin," including abortion and gay marriage."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/....ap/index.html

Will someone please run this babbling douchebag zealot over with a bus already

Don't worry she is behind in the polls badly. Even Jeb Bush has told her to not run and doesn't support her. She's so stupid, insult jews in FLORIDA. How many hundreds of thousands of votes did she just cost herself?

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Stop dodging.

It's infered moron. Go read what the founding fathers thought on church and state. if you think this country should be run by religion then you are retarded. Part of the reason people came to America from the UK was because the Church of England ran everything so of course the very thing they want is for relgious leaders to run things here.

I'm an athiest I have rights. So do Jews, Muslims( which is growing IMMENSLY in the US ) adn other religions. Just like whites are become a smaller % of the poulation so are Christians so it's best you start respecting others beliefs before it's too late. Christians are no better than anyone else.

[GatorB]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,"

Let's translate

Congress shall not establish a national religion.

Pretty simple for those with a few brain cells.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by GatorB

It's infered moron. Go read what the founding fathers thought on church and state. if you think this country should be run by religion then you are retarded. Part of the reason people came to America from the UK was because the Church of England ran everything so of course the very thing they want is for relgious leaders to run things here.

I'm an athiest I have rights. So do Jews, Muslims( which is growing IMMENSLY in the US ) adn other religions. Just like whites are become a smaller % of the poulation so are Christians so it's best you start respecting others beliefs before it's too late. Christians are no better than anyone else.

No its not infered. Show me the exact text where its infered. You are referring to a letter written to the Baptist convention, to REASSURE them that the government would not institue its own Church. Its freedom OF religion, not from. And the benifits you as an atheist also.

Now if you have some proof proving what I said wrong post it. You wont have anything to post with any validity.

She is right in the respect that its a lie.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by GatorB

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,"

Let's translate

Congress shall not establish a national religion.

Pretty simple for those with a few brain cells.

I love people that shorten that quote.

[stickyfingerz]

This is the quote.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

[GatorB]

Here's what Thomas Jefferson thought

"Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802."

[fl_prn_str]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

She has soooo been on my poopy list for a long time now. This just cements her place on it eternal.

I hope the bitch gets cancer from that ugly ass cheap makeup she's always wearing..............

either she went to the tammy faye baker school of cosmetology or she is her long lost cousin.

[GatorB]

George Washington

If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.
-- George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789,

Every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.
-- George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789,

If they are good workmen, they may be of Asia, Africa, or Europe. They may be Mohometans, Jews or Christians of any Sect, or they may be Atheists.
-- George Washington, letter to Tench Tilghman asking him to secure a carpenter and a bricklayer for his Mount Vernon estate, March 24, 1784,

I am persuaded, you will permit me to observe that the path of true piety is so plain as to require but little political direction. To this consideration we ought to ascribe the absence of any regulation, respecting religion, from the Magna-Charta of our country.
-- George Washington, responding to a group of clergymen who complained that the Constitution lacked mention of Jesus Christ, in 1789,

Among many other weighty objections to the Measure, it has been suggested, that it has a tendency to introduce religious disputes into the Army, which above all things should be avoided, and in many instances would compel men to a mode of Worship which they do not profess.
-- George Washington, to John Hancock, then president of Congress, expressing opposition to a congressional plan to appoint brigade chaplains in the Continental Army (1777),

Government being, among other purposes, instituted to protect the consciences of men from oppression, it certainly is the duty of Rulers, not only to abstain from it themselves, but according to their stations, to prevent it in others.
-- George Washington, letter to the Religious Society called the Quakers, September 28,1789,

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Here's what Thomas Jefferson thought

"Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802."

I already went over this, and that letter was to reassure a CHURCH that the government would not try and take over religion. Again PLEASE show ANYWHERE that discusses the Seperation of Church and state in the constitution, or any other official government document.

Always the same about this issue. Freedom of religion. They are trying to use this to strip away religion, and that was not what was intended at all.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

No its not infered. Show me the exact text where its infered. You are referring to a letter written to the Baptist convention, to REASSURE them that the government would not institue its own Church.

Jesus Fucking Christ read your own shit.

"to REASSURE them that the government would not institue its own Church"

Um can't get much clearer than that. Harris CLEARLY says that only CHRISTAINS should be in office and the CHRISTIAN law should be the law of the land. How is that NOT the government establishing a religion?

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

I love people that shorten that quote.

So? Quit being an ass. How does making sure that Christains don't rule the country prevent them from exercising their relgious beliefs? It doesn't. I didn't quote the whole thing because the rest isn't germain to the topic. If you think not having prayer in public school or taking God off our money or out of the pledge, or taking the 10 commandments of of the courthouses is somehow preventing even ONE Christian his right to worship you are retarded.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Always the same about this issue. Freedom of religion. They are trying to use this to strip away religion, and that was not what was intended at all.

Who are the ones trying to stop the teaching of evolution in our schools?

[marzzo]

She was also busted on CSPAN canoodling a married Rep from AZ:



(ca·noo·dle - v. To engage in caressing, petting, or lovemaking.)

Video proof of the petting here: http://www.thecanoodle.com/

What does God say about adultery?

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Jesus Fucking Christ read your own shit.

"to REASSURE them that the government would not institue its own Church"

Um can't get much clearer than that. Harris CLEARLY says that only CHRISTAINS should be in office and the CHRISTIAN law should be the law of the land. How is that NOT the government establishing a religion?

Again you are dodging. Show me the official government document saying anything about seperation of church and state.

The part you dont understand is they are trying to use those words to strip religion away from everything. Thats freedom FROM not freedom OF.

Again you cannot show a single document that makes seperation of church and state a law. It is a lie.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Who are the ones trying to stop the teaching of evolution in our schools?

Whats that have to do with the question at hand? Again there is no law of Seperation of Church and State. If there is prove it.

The way the evolution issue is solved is School vouchers. Then parents can have their child taught the way they believe.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Again you are dodging. Show me the official government document saying anything about seperation of church and state.

The part you dont understand is they are trying to use those words to strip religion away from everything. Thats freedom FROM not freedom OF.

Again you cannot show a single document that makes seperation of church and state a law. It is a lie.

The supreme court has interpreted it over many years in many famous cases. It doesn't directly say it, but it has been interpreted by our judges.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Whats that have to do with the question at hand? Again there is no law of Seperation of Church and State. If there is prove it.

The way the evolution issue is solved is School vouchers. Then parents can have their child taught the way they believe.

Well you are complaining that people are trying to eliminate religion from our schools. I'm saying it's a tad hypocritical considering these people are the same ones trying to ban science from our schools.

[HomeFry]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Hate to jump in here, but Seperation of church and state is not on any goverment document. If it is feel free to post it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separat...urch_and_state

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separat...nited_State s

[WDchris]

Originally Posted by GatorB

. Christians are no better than anyone else.

Is this true?

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by HomeFry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separat...urch_and_state

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separat...nited_State s

The separation of church and state is a political doctrine which states that the institutions of the state or national government should be kept separate from those of religious institutions. The concept has been a topic of political debate throughout history.

The phrase separation of church and state is a common interpretation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . ." The phrase itself does not appear in any founding American document, but it has been quoted in opinions by the United States Supreme Court. (The first such mention was in Reynolds v. United States, 98 U.S. 145 in 1878.)

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Well you are complaining that people are trying to eliminate religion from our schools. I'm saying it's a tad hypocritical considering these people are the same ones trying to ban science from our schools.

Where did I mention a school?

[GatorB]

I'm going to back to ignoring stickyfingerz like I should have conintued to do. It's obvious that COMMON SENSE doesn't matter to him. If Harris was a democrat he'd be all over her comments. I also forgot stciky has to live with the fact he is a doofus. I mean look at his pics. What a douche. He's nothing but a hypocrite. A "christian" that makes money off of porn. Um...ok.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by GatorB

I'm going to back to ignoring stickyfingerz like I should have conintued to do. It's obvious that COMMON SENSE doesn't matter to him. If Harris was a democrat he'd be all over her comments. I also forgot stciky has to live with the fact he is a doofus. I mean look at his pics. What a douche. He's nothing but a hypocrite. A "christian" that makes money off of porn. Um...ok.

Typical you CANNOT and WILLNOT produce one shred of evidence of seperation of church and state so you put me on ignore. Ive only been anything but cordial in this thread, yet you need to ignore me and call me a doofus, and a douche. Oh and a hypocrite. Now you tell me what beliefs I should have. I cant have religion, and believe that its ok for a person to gratify themselves using pornagraphic images. Now you are dictating to me about what my beliefs are. You are cool.

[stickyfingerz]

btw here is a very recent pic from Miami. Call me a twink if you like, doofus? naw sorry.



Now post a pic of yourself, lets see if you look like a doofus.

[germ]

Originally Posted by GatorB

I'm going to back to ignoring stickyfingerz like I should have conintued to do. It's obvious that COMMON SENSE doesn't matter to him. If Harris was a democrat he'd be all over her comments. I also forgot stciky has to live with the fact he is a doofus. I mean look at his pics. What a douche. He's nothing but a hypocrite. A "christian" that makes money off of porn. Um...ok.

i disagree with most of what he says, but ive never seen him proclaim to be a christian.


care to address that topic sticky?

[Brujah]

They should really be careful what they wish for.. wanting the government to start legislating religion further and inviting them to do so.

[CybermedAndy]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

btw here is a very recent pic from Miami. Call me a twink if you like, doofus? naw sorry.



Now post a pic of yourself, lets see if you look like a doofus.

You might be getting an ICQ from BoyAlley shortly

[HomeFry]

Why is that chic on the left wearing a tie?

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by HomeFry

Why is that chic on the left wearing a tie?

its to hide the bulge from my cock. Goes up past there you know hehe.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by germ

i disagree with most of what he says, but ive never seen him proclaim to be a christian.


care to address that topic sticky?

Really not the issue here, but yes I believe in God, and my beliefs dont strictly adhere to the mainstream Christian doctrine. Should Gator release the lions now to persecute me haha.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by MoneyBetsAndy

You might be getting an ICQ from BoyAlley shortly

*sigh* I can only dream...

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Where did I mention a school?

School is part of the separation of church and state. We can use a number of examples, I just used school as a sign of the hypocrisy from those complaining about this.

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by fl_prn_str

either she went to the tammy faye baker school of cosmetology or she is her long lost cousin.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

School is part of the separation of church and state. We can use a number of examples, I just used school as a sign of the hypocrisy from those complaining about this.

Still somewhat off the exact part I was pointing out, and has been verified. It is not in any of the founding documents.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Still somewhat off the exact part I was pointing out, and has been verified. It is not in any of the founding documents.

It isn't, neither are a lot of the laws and regulations we live by. Our founding fathers didn't have a problem with slavery, yet I don't see Katherine Harris advocating that.

Our courts have made decision after decision to interpret just what the constitution meant by their statements. Our founding documents didn't lay out a lot of particular decisions, which is why we need a set of courts to help interpret those laws and the constitution.

Is Harris saying that our courts have all been wrong about this over the years or just pretending to ignore those decisions?

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by GatorB

It's infered moron.

The only thing protected in your constitution is religion. There's nothing to protect your country from being overrun by religious nut jobs.. Yes, some founding fathers and the like talked about it, but there is nothing there and thus you have no protection. The US clearly has no legislative seperation of church and state and anyone thinking it does is simply deluding themselves.

[Brujah]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

It isn't, neither are a lot of the laws and regulations we live by. Our founding fathers didn't have a problem with slavery, yet I don't see Katherine Harris advocating that.

Maybe she doesn't want women voting anymore either.

[BradM]

Sticky is cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute