[Labret]

No way, I am more hands on.

Watch out Canada, I am coming and I have a large bag of screwdrivers.

FATPad

I must have missed where you explained how the land was stolen and justified killing children.

I'm off to bed. I'll check again in the morning for the stolen land explanation.

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mischief

posted by labret:
And where is the end to it all, all land has been won or lost in battle over time, the difference is most people get over it and move on.

sinomatic

There is really no way of agreeing whose land it is. First of all the Jews didn't steal it as you know, it was given to them by the British government. But that's not the point. The point is that the Palestinian people have commited a great error in supporting a leader who does not really want peace, because he than would be out of a job. There were numerous opportunities which were given to the Palestinian "government", but they refused them. Rome wasn't built in one day, so why do they expect to get everything they want all at once. Instead of using terrorist tacktics, they are better off using the political arena to help themselves.
Ps. I have 2 couzines serving in the Israely army, I don't want them to die, and they have personally told me that they really don't want to kill any Palestinians unless they have to. So in conclusion, this argument will never be solved, because the 2 governments are only looking out for their own sake and not the peoples.

Rose

How come we dont see Germans blowing themselves in Poland?
After all Germany lost big piece of land to Poland after WW2.
So it's the stolen land

[Labret]

I wish I was an Indian. Free college, money from the government, casino money, fry bread.

foe

How coudl you say the Israeli government is not looking out for the people, unlike Arafats PA the Israeli government is democratic, and if sharon doesnt serve the people someone else will be elected. You said that your cousins dont want to kill any palestinians, this is how the Israeli army works, do you really think that if they wanted to murder inocent Palestininas they couldnt, come on.

[Labret]

I dont justify it.

The Israelis justify it.

drumsicle

Attention class. That's what you call turnspeak. You'll see it used every time someone is trying to justify the killing of innocent civilians. If you want to try it yourself, wait till the next time the Palestinians kill a bunch of children and then promptly call the Israelis child-killers.

[Labret]

If a man runs up and randomly punches people in the face for no reason, I would condemn him.

If he ran up and down the street punching people in the face because he had a valid reason, I would not condemn him.

You reap what you sow.

Pathfinder

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Pathfinder


Unfortunately I did not tape the news account (as I usually do not), but it was reported within the time frame that Israel forces had Arafat confined to his headquarters. During this period there was alot of discussion about intervention; Arafat actually asked for it Sharon was against it but stated that if it happened he would go along with it. That was the gist of the news account.

You can choose to believe what you like or call me what you like, that is your perogative.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Maybe the media was misinformed and I was misinformed by the media. An outright lie, as stated by drumsicle, it was not.

ChrisH

HAHA... Stolen Land that's too funny....

If they weren't attacked they would not have taken the land from their aggressors!

PLEEEEEZEEEEE......

How much of there land was already given back to Egypt, and Jordan??? Give me a break already!!!

jas1552

I know this is a bit off the original topic but i couldn't let this go unchalanged as if it were fact.

The electric car has been brought to market. Almost nobody ever buys them because they're more expensive than a normal car, and who wants a car that you can only drive around for an hour or two before you have to recharge it? The more power(how fast it goes) the car has the less driving time before a recharge.
I think the hybrid is a good idea. I hope it does well and eventually every car is a hybrid.

They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!
They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa
To the funny farm. Where life is beautiful all the time and I'll be
happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats and they're
coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!!!!

Wacky liberal environmentalism at it's best/worst.

Solar panels are not affordable. I've seen statistics where it would cost $100,000 to convert an already built home to be heated off of solar power only. How many years would it take for a system like that to pay for itself? Not to mention the large amount of space they take up compared to the amount of power they generate.

Hydrogen conversion works kind of like this: water+electricity=hydrogen and oxygen. Hydrogen+oxygen=electricity and water.
Since there are no huge reserves of freed hydrogen sitting around on earth you have to free the hydrogen from the water. To do that you need ELECTRICITY. It all comes down to The Law of Conservation of Energy. Where do we get our electricity? Petroleum and coal mostly with some hydroelectric.
Instead of burning the petroleum in cars we'd be burning it in the hydrogen factories.


Yes, let's be realistic. If the answers were that easy the problem would be solved.

ChrisH

That has to be the stupidest annalogy I've ever seen!!

Kahane

Come on now! You're making the creators and Hale look bad. The least you could do is actually try a bit? Dance around and wear those funny red shoes?

Am Yisroel Chai.

- Kahane -

foe

Got it, sorry for saying that it was an outright lie, my mistake

foe

over 90% of the land taken during the 67 war was given back

[Labret]

Tanks vs Children, nice.

FATPad

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/ne...rticleID=55149

hehe. The Saudi's are trying to boycott our products. Cute.

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GoodChris

This is so typical of how people think...



The economy is set by whom exactly? and from what?

electric cars are more expensive because there is less supply and demand... its like ANYTHING. If the technology was embraced, it would be at par with gas engines by now, ... think about it..

NASA sent 2 probes out in 76 and 77..voyager 1 & 2 ... nuclear powered and werre STILL sending us back info 25 years later... and you think we can't make a cheaper , more powerful electric car? Bullshit.

solar power is the solution, and hydrogen conversion...and when certain people are taken down, the technology will get used... this is about power and money...we are all being FUCKED.

Too expensive is what they make it, so that we have no choice.

Pathfinder

Israeli response has always been part of the problem. It just exacerbates the hatred, and I do not think that there is a military solution to terroists attacks.

In this case it appears that an Israeli tank commander executed an adult and three children for a curfew violation. Maybe by accident, maybe not. Either way they are just as dead and Israel has just created more hatred and more enemies.

During the Second World War, German troops occupied many countries, and most, if not all of those countries, developed under ground forces.

The under ground forces, would snipe Germans, blow troop trains, attack truck convoys, etc. Some German Commanders used the ten for one policy. For every German soldier killed in an attack they would go to the nearest village and would, at random, select ten locals for each German killed (ususally men, sometimes, women and children) and summarily execute them.

This tactic did not get the desired results. It simply increased the number of volunteers for the under ground.

While I understand the feelings of the Israelis that have lost children to suicide bombers, their tactics, just as in the case of the Germans, will not get the desired result.

If it were anyone's children, that is reading this post, that had just been killed for a violation of curfew; I ask you what would be your reaction to the killers of your children?

FATPad

I agree. Israel should sit around with their thumb up their ass and let more buses get blown up.

Good thinking.

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Pathfinder

I ask you this question do you really think the tactics being used by Israel is going to stop attacks against them?

FATPad

That question cuts both ways.

Do you think the tactics used by the Palestinians are going to get the desired results?

Your analogy is flawed in a major way. The Germans invaded people out of a desire for conquest and power. The Israels invade places only when they're tired of being attacked on a weekly basis and want it to stop and are out of alternatives.

The Palestinians are not freedom fighters rebelling against an invading force who seeks to conquer and rule the world. They're a bunch of fuckwads who have been trying for decades to exterminate the people they still attack on a weekly basis.

The countries that Germany occupied did nothing to invite the occupation.

The Palestinians are responsible for whatever actions Israel takes against them, including occupation.

Until the Palestinians can prove they want peace and are not simply carrying out a vendetta to kill all Jews, they get what they deserve. Nothing except harsh retaliations.

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Pathfinder

Absolutely not.

I do not think my analogy is flawed because, rightfully or wrongfully, the Palestinian perception is that they are being occupied by an oppressor.

And Israel will continue to suffer harsh retaliation.

FATPad

Your analogy is flawed. If the Polish people had laid down their weapons and been good little people, would the Germans have left? No.

If the Palestinians stop acting like animals and blowing up Israeli civilians, will the Israeli's go home? Yes.

A closer analogy is this:

Your child is 10 years old and wants to stay up until midnight every night. You want him to go to bed at 8p, but in the spirit of compromise, you tell him that if he gets straight A's, he can go to bed at 10p.

Instead of getting straight A's, he proceeds to hit you, kick you, spit on you, scream at you and generally throw a large hissy fit.

Now you get the belt, whip his ass, AND make him go to bed at 8p.

Is your child mistreated and abused or is he simply receiving the punishment he deserves?

Also...if he tells you he thinks you're abusing him, does it make it true?

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BabeHunter

there is a huge diffrence between killing children by mistake ccause there were in the wrong place at the wrong time...
and between targeting and blowing up a bus full with kids...

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foe

So your saying the US should not have gone after the Taliban and just gave them land in hope that they will stop attacking the US?

foe

Yes after they reconquer the westbank arrest all terrorist and destroy all bomb factories there will be a lot less bombings, did you know that before Oslo there where a lot less terrorist bombings than immediately after?

foe

Yes But there is a huge diffrence none of these countries ever went into Germany and tried to blow up innocent kids

Pathfinder

FATPad:

I spent half of a life time in the military. I have been involved in literally hundreds of military operations. I have been in charge of military operations, coventional and unconventional. I am results oriented.

I have zero interest in the polictics of a situation, or what is fair or unfair.

The tactics being used by Israel will not get the desired results and the tactics being used by the Palestinians will not get the desired results.

So the wheel will continue to turn without end.

As for you BabeHunter if a Tank Commander killed my children I would have little concern about it being an accident or not.

Pathfinder

The Taliban never attacked us. I have reaptedly stated my resolution to the problem, so I will not repeat it again.

foe

Can you give me a link to where you stated, I know that the Taliban never directly attacked us, but they harbored terrorists. Just like Arafat, who knowingly and willingly harbors terrorists, even offered them a seat in his cabinet

FATPad

Okay. I understand being results oriented. That's fine.

Giving in to terrorists simply reinforces the idea that terrorism is the way to get what you want.

Your military training should tell you that. It should also tell you that next time the Palestinians want something, they'll resort to bombings since they know Pathfinder will give in like he did last time.

You have a choice of crushing the Palestinians until they can prove they can act like civilized people, or being the victims of bombings everytime the Palestinians get grumpy and want more.

There is no middle ground with them.

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Pathfinder

The Palestinians percieve that Israel is occupying their land and are heavy handed oppressors.

That is not the point that I was making. The point was the tactics used by the Germans did not stop attacks upon them

My only concern is tactics that will work. Not tactics that only exacerbate the problem. The tactics used by both sides only exacerbate the problem, and from my view point is just plain dumb for both sides.

foe

Germans huh, good example the allies gave Germany checkoslavakia just liek you want Israel to give land to the PA, look what happend they just want and took more. Exactly what the PA wants to do, most palestinians still believe they will conquer Israel and thats what they want.

Pathfinder

I have never advocated giving in to terrorists tactics. I have advocated separating the two combatants, for at least one generation, if not two. It is my opinion that both sides are wrong headed.

If they "crush" the Palestinians, Israel may not survive as a nation at all. The repercussions of an action like that are unpredictable.

foe

Thats what they are doing are you ignorant enough to think that Israel Just wants to attack all Palestininas for racial purposes, thats why then need to enter Jenin etc, becuase thats where the combatants are hiding.

Pathfinder

You just don't get it. It is only about using tactics that get the desired results, not about all of the fucking rhetoric.

FATPad

Just out of curiosity...

How do propose to seperate two groups of people, when one group relies on the other for almost everything, including jobs and public utilities?

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Kahane

I'm sure the Boys in vietnam were concerned about what the lil' grenade totin' kid's parents thought too.

Parents that encourage their kids to throw molotov cocktails & rocks at tanks & soldiers while their big brothers are shooting AK47's at the soldiers: then want to cry because they let their kids get into the line of fire. My heart bleeds. You got some super parenting skills going on there brotha.

On a side note - anti Semites will use anything they can find to fault Jews. When they can't find it - they make it up...those are called revisionists and under educated folks sitting here in the states telling Yisroel they stole land while sitting on land the US stole. Too bad the Indians or the Irish and so on and so on aren't Jews...then these retards screaming about Yisroel might give them some press too.

- Kahane -

foe

What tacktics are those, dont you think the Israeli government would use the tacktics that will stop terrorism most efficiently, if they give Arafat a state now, do you think this will stop, or just increase becuase Israel cannot enter the WB

GoodChris

lets just drop a big bomb on the middle east and start all over.

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Pathfinder

Well since I don't have all of the information I would need to write up an operational plan and a logistical plan, nor do I care to take the time to write the plans (they would be novelette size), even if I had the required information. I will pass.

We have people that are quiet capable of making the necessary plans. After all our military has been in the business of making operational and logistical plans for over two hundred years. Mission immposible; I think not.

Pathfinder

We lost alot of lives because of the hatred we instilled, so there was a consequence to our actions.

There is an old axiom; "violence breeds violence".

Pathfinder

You seem to be a little dense. You just don't get it. Statements made just go right over your head.

At least FATPad gets the drift.

foe

Its not as easy as it looks. http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ial-before.jpg
14,000 people living within a 1 mile radius.

FATPad

Well, Pathfinder...

A 3rd party military force will do one thing. Handcuff the Israelis and let the Palestinians continue to bomb.

Everyday, thousands of Palestinians enter Israel to work and shop. There is an open border where thousands more sneak across illegally, again, to find work.

The suicide bombings will continue, oinly now, Israel won't be able to respond because our military that's intervening won't let them. In the end WE will have to invade the Palestinian areas, impose a curfew, and basically take over the PA areas.

How does this benefit anyone at all? The bombings continue, Israel can't respond so they start getting pissed at us, now we're the bad guys for invading the poor little Palestinians, and there are now Americans being killed by Palestinians.

Not much of a solution.

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Pathfinder

Maybe a solution, maybe not, only a generation or two would tell the tale.

If both sides continue to use their current tactics, they may as well just resign themselves to continued death and destruction.

I personally do not think the the USA or the world will let this continue indefinitely.

foe

Definetly not, Israel will conquer PA territories and stop most suicide bombings currently they have atleast an 89% percent success rate after operation defensive shield, and after they enter jenin etc I am sure it will be higher