Ignores reality, how do you figure ? My point is the reality of the situation

Oh I beg to differ :1orglaugh If you are the cause of a problem then the logical solution is to stop causing the problem.

If you cause a fire, it doesn't help throwing gasoline all over it !

Nah there are 2 types of people, those who believe everything that they are told by their media and there are those who question what they are told who try and seek out the truth.

There are also those who see things in black and white or right and wrong and then there are those who see past the bullshit, who realize that everything works in different shades of gray

Propaganda is to democracy what violence is to dictatorship

anyway Iran attacked 0 countries in the last 200 years and america attacked every country except canada and uk in the last century

NK have developed Nukes, too late to do anything now. Ever thought that maybe thats the reason Iran wants Nukes ? To defend itself from invasion

If you have sticks and stones and the person threatening you has guns, would you not seek out guns yourself to protect yourself ? Nukes have been proven to be a great deterent against countries trying to invade a country.

If Iran had no oil then I would certainly understand America and Britain wanting to disarm Iran but Iran happens to have one of the largest oil reserves on the planet.

Pleasurepays read this article its very interesting

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/GF04Ad07.html

i reckon its gonna kick off big time!!

Im surpsied it didnt with north korea!

What can you do .. They took the Bush Doctrine:

" Fuck you, I do as I want, I am right , God told me to, etc ..."

Iran has said that it will not rest until Isreal is wiped off the planet. Sounds like an act of war to me.

If you are sick from food poisining, good idea to first stop eating, then replace the food .....
No use to takeanti-biotica to cure it, if you continue ingurgiting the poison ...

More terrorists today ( and way more motivated ) than in 2003 ....

Words are not acts of war ...

No, the problem is generationally seperated from the source. There is no way to remove the 'cause' if you are arguing that the cause is American/British/French middle-east policy for the past 100 years.

What would the solution be, then? Precisely, you dont have a solution because you're more interested in trying to blame someone.

ugh, over-simplified grade-school analogies are on my top 10 list of most annoying things.

You are very talented in using alot of words to say absolutely nothing.

Classic ! :1orglaugh

I see you have joined the "let's try to think up a catchy analogy that perfectly mimics the complex geo-political swamp that is the middle-east"

Ok then - what is the 'food' in your brilliant dissection of the problem? And once the 'food' has been removed, what is the medicine? And don't try to answer will another dumbed-down analogy, try and answer with real-world solutions.

oh... you mean they are not really after "peace".

i thought all the peace loving, "fuck the UN" "fuck the world" "we want nukes" "we want all jews dead" "kill all americans" Iranians were just out to spread some love.

thanks for setting the record straight..
:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Thats correct

Sometimes there are no solutions to complex problems, I just know that I won't be the one signing up to fight in this next war that's for sure! I'll leave that to the folk that actually believe that islamic terrorism is a global threat that could kill us all. Yea right :1orglaugh

I'm from Belfast, I've lived through more terrorism than you'll ever see. Real terrorism is a constant threat daily, I can see right through the bullshit of this so called terrorist threat because I've lived through real terrorism.

If our western world had real terrorism happening on a daily basis our economies would colapse.

I needed to dumb it down for a few others in this thread (I'm not referring to you)

Ah yes the name calling :) Its always the same on this forum :thumbsup

Food: american military in Muslim countries
Medecine: economic implication in business development

I'm not an alarmist and Im not going to tell you that the boogy man is coming to get you, but if you don't think that islamic terrorism or violent islamic fundamentalism exists and/or isn't a problem - then you are suffering from denial.

umm, ok. So then you'll agree then that the IRA blowing up bombs in london was terrorism. So how is 4 dudes last July blowing themselves up in London not 'real terrorism'? Or the 300 dead Spainards in Madrid - please explain how they were not victims of 'real terrorism'?

Perhaps you only consider 'real terrorism' that which directly affects you, and I can respect the fact that you live in NI and have personal experience with it. I do not think, however, that it makes other acts of terrorism somehow less valid.

I wasnt name calling - but seriously, did you read the lines i was referring to? You wrote alot of words but said absolutely nothing of substance. No offence.

To China and Russia, Washington's "democratic reform program" is a thinly disguised method for the US to militarily dispose of unfriendly regimes in order to ensure the country's primacy as the world's sole superpower.

I think that sums it up quite nicely, I'm not saying it's that simple, nothing is that simple. I think it gives us a brief explanation to whats really going on.

Ok, so your plan is to remove all american military presence in the most strategically important place on the globe, and then replace the military with american and international money to develop the economies of middle eastern countries.

Good plan, you should be president or work for the UN or something. Man, I can't believe that world leaders havent contacted you yet.

Dude please don't try and twist my words, you know exactly what I was saying. In my honest opinion real terrorism doesn't stop, it happens every day. I know this because I've lived through it.

None taken, I feel this terrorist threat is nothing more than propaganda and scare tactics to drum up support for our foreign policies in the middle east.

How about Europe does some of the dirty work?

The U.S. is not the world's police man. Iran's on their side of the world. Deal with it.

:disgust

There are many forces playing, and speculation will get our fuel cost to skyrocket. I'd say let them have their energy source, the more you block someone the more they will fight to achieve something.

To be perfectly honest with you, I'm not a big fan of the muslim faith or their culture but I do respect its right to exist.

Of coarse I know and think that that islamic terrorism or violent islamic fundamentalism exists but I just feel the problem is so overexagerated that it's ridiculous.

The total figure is less than 10,000 people who have died through acts of islamic terrorism in the past 5 years. More people die from starvation every day in this world.

The media has us all scared shitless about these terrorist threats and it really makes me sad

Too bad you don't apply your own doctrine ...

no point of going on with you ....

Anyone with half a brain can seperate what you see on TV; the media's role in perpetuating fear in the masses - in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s the american populace was trained to be afraid of "the commies". Everyone knows this.

The danger is believing that it is 100% "wag the dog". It is obvious that there does exist numbers of people out there who are driven by a dogma that is centred on violence against all non-muslims. Yes, media has in interesting in exaggerating the threat because it draws more eyeballs and means more advertising $$$. The government has an interest to overplay the threat because of winning domestic approval for controversial foreign policy.

However - simply because domestic media sources and goverments may sensationalize and exaggerate the scope of the 'threat', to dispute the existence of a threat - regardless of size or severity - is denial.

Was I wrong in laying out what your plan was? I respect people who stand behind what they preach. Was my description of you plan for world peace not accurate? Please, enlighten GFY with your plan to solve the problems of the middle-east in three easy steps.

Saddam played games because he didn't believe the people of America would support a war in Iraq.

Come to find out, all our government had to do was imply that Saddam was planning on launching WMD across the Atlantic at us. Of course, we as a country are so damn stupid that we believed it.


The president of Iran must know that a war against the US will end the same way it did for Saddam. So you won't see him doing anything stupid.

Iran hasn't done anything illegal. That is why the only way this is going to move forward is if Iran is set up.

the funny thing about your position is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the issues at hand. all you are really saying is:

1) i dont trust authority figures
2) i dont like bush
3) media is propaganda

and so on.

unfortunately you have already ruled out any room for solutions since you have already started with dismissing the very people who can do anything about it and indirectly defending those who take advantage of similar people to you with your attitudes.

for the most part discussing "iran" has ZERO to do with "iran" and more to do with "for/against the USA" "for/against Bush" "for/against Isreal"

meanwhile... they are maneuvering to take advantage people like you. you think others are "sheep" however your own position is no more balanced than that of those you so quickly dismiss. a great irony of those with your attitude is that you are the exact person you make fun of.

.. and then FOUR easy steps ... :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Play alone, kiddo.

they don't want to do anything stupid. they want nuclear bombs. once they have nuclear bombs, people have to stop and listen and even give them money.

I guess that's the problem that I have, a big percentage of Americans and Britains don't have that mental capacity to think for themselves anymore and that deeply concerns me because I personally hate being lied to.

Hey I agree with 90% of what you're sayin man :)

I feel that, like Iraq (the WMDs) Iran will just be another situation were the public will be misled (the nuclear program) to drum up support for invasion.

I actually explained a rough psychological framework of people who think like this in my many forays into 'conspiracy theory' threads (usually involving Phoenix.. i love you man!!). It's refreshing to see someone who is on the same page :winkwink:

..and they never will think for themselves. Educated people in the world are a small minority and it will always be that way, just like there will always be rich and poor, democrats and republicans, etc, etc.. One thing is constant throughout history - and that's people. People do not learn from history and people will always suffer from a myopic view of the world because of our short lifespans; the present is more relevant than the past or future by a huge margin and personal decisions are driven by base emotions to have the most effect on the present.

Things like that used to bother me until I started focusing on things that are in my control. It is a big weight off your shoulders when you realize that there are only so many facets of the world you can affect, and that the best you can hope to do is expand the reach of your influence to maybe someday make some positive change happen.

I disagree with your statement, my point in this thread is quite valid I feel.

I don't like being lied to or bullshited by my government, I don't trust them anymore because they have lied to us in the past (Iraq for a recent example)

Like in every war, it's the poor people who are expected to go off and die in these wars while the rich reap most of the rewards. If you want the poor to fight in your bullshit wars they better believe whatever reason it is that you are giving them to go off and fight (islamic terrorism threat)

I'm simply not prepared to be one of these suckers!

I also stand by my post about not being a big fan of the muslim faith, I'm not trying to defend these people. Infact I really couldn't care less about the people in the middle east but I do not want to see my countrymen dieing (like in Iraq) so the rich can make even more money

Agreed.

Now the question is, how are we going to prevent that from happening?

We can't just start a huge war because someone is planning on building a bomb. The legal basis for taking Saddam out was that he killed his own people (the UN never bought into the WMD stuff).

Iran hasn't done anything illegal, and that is what scares me. SOMETHING has to happen that will trigger war.

The rich always get the poor to fight their battles for them, that's my problem

I think there is a more devious (or not so devious, if you are an American) reason for wanting war with Iran.

Just imagine the power of being able to tell Iraq AND Iran to shut off their oil to certain countries in conflict with the US.

One of the best posts I've read on here recently

You're totally right, looks like I'm slowly coming to that realization :disgust

Point taken

a few unfortuneate truths in life

1) politics is about the art of lying.

2) any hint of an ability for deductive reasoning, you would force one to conclude that the other side is also lying.

3) if its agreed that both sides are lying, then you know that ultimately, you can only take a side and choose the lessor of two evils.

4) not doing so is not a solution.

At 22 years of age I think I may have learnt a very important lesson in this thread from the last few posts :disgust

Thanks for the replies Pleasurepays and Dollarmansteve, I've learnt a few important things in this thread :thumbsup