Originally Posted by directfiesta

What can you do .. They took the Bush Doctrine:

" Fuck you, I do as I want, I am right , God told me to, etc ..."

Originally Posted by directfiesta

If you are sick from food poisining, good idea to first stop eating, then replace the food .....
No use to takeanti-biotica to cure it, if you continue ingurgiting the poison ...

More terrorists today ( and way more motivated ) than in 2003 ....

Originally Posted by directfiesta

What can you do .. They took the Bush Doctrine:

" Fuck you, I do as I want, I am right , God told me to, etc ..."

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

There is no way to remove the 'cause' if you are arguing that the cause is American/British/French middle-east policy for the past 100 years.

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

What would the solution be, then? Precisely, you dont have a solution because you're more interested in trying to blame someone.

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

ugh, over-simplified grade-school analogies are on my top 10 list of most annoying things.

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

You are very talented in using alot of words to say absolutely nothing.

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

I see you have joined the "let's try to think up a catchy analogy that perfectly mimics the complex geo-political swamp that is the middle-east"

Ok then - what is the 'food' in your brilliant dissection of the problem? And once the 'food' has been removed, what is the medicine? And don't try to answer will another dumbed-down analogy, try and answer with real-world solutions.

Originally Posted by Coatsy

Sometimes there are no solutions to complex problems, I just know that I won't be the one signing up to fight in this next war that's for sure! I'll leave that to the folk that actually believe that islamic terrorism is a global threat that could kill us all. Yea right :1orglaugh

Originally Posted by coatsy

I'm from Belfast, I've lived through more terrorism than you'll ever see. Real terrorism is a constant threat daily, I can see right through the bullshit of this so called terrorist threat because I've lived through real terrorism.

If our western world had real terrorism happening on a daily basis our economies would colapse.

Originally Posted by Coatsy

Ah yes the name calling :) Its always the same on this forum :thumbsup

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

I see you have joined the "let's try to think up a catchy analogy that perfectly mimics the complex geo-political swamp that is the middle-east"

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Food: american military in Muslim countries
Medecine: economic implication in business development

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

umm, ok. So then you'll agree then that the IRA blowing up bombs in london was terrorism. So how is 4 dudes last July blowing themselves up in London not 'real terrorism'? Or the 300 dead Spainards in Madrid - please explain how they were not victims of 'real terrorism'?

Perhaps you only consider 'real terrorism' that which directly affects you, and I can respect the fact that you live in NI and have personal experience with it. I do not think, however, that it makes other acts of terrorism somehow less valid.

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

I wasnt name calling - but seriously, did you read the lines i was referring to? You wrote alot of words but said absolutely nothing of substance. No offence.

Originally Posted by AlienQ

I really do not know why America has not just started straff bombing parts of Iran.

We should have started doing that 3 years ago.
I have no idea why it is tolorated in the international scale for government's to fund destructive influences in other countries by arming militia's and have them instigate terror and murder on civilian populations.

The UN is gutless.

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

Ok, so your plan is to remove all american military presence in the most strategically important place on the globe, and then replace the military with american and international money to develop the economies of middle eastern countries.

Good plan, you should be president or work for the UN or something. Man, I can't believe that world leaders havent contacted you yet.

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

And don't try to answer will another dumbed-down analogy, try and answer with real-world solutions.

Originally Posted by Coatsy

None taken, I feel this terrorist threat is nothing more than propaganda and scare tactics to drum up support for our foreign policies in the middle east.

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Too bad you don't apply your own doctrine ...



no point of going on with you ....

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

Saddam played similar games with the US.

Originally Posted by Coatsy

To be perfectly honest with you, I'm not a big fan of the muslim faith or their culture but I do respect its right to exist.

Of coarse I know and think that that islamic terrorism or violent islamic fundamentalism exists but I just feel the problem is so overexagerated that it's ridiculous.

The total figure is less than 10,000 people who have died through acts of islamic terrorism in the past 5 years. More people die from starvation every day in this world.

The media has us all scared shitless about these terrorist threats and it really makes me sad

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

Was I wrong in laying out what your plan was? I respect people who stand behind what they preach. Was my description of you plan for world peace not accurate? Please, enlighten GFY with your plan to solve the problems of the middle-east in three easy steps.

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

The president of Iran must know that a war against the US will end the same way it did for Saddam. So you won't see him doing anything stupid.

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

Anyone with half a brain can seperate what you see on TV; the media's role in perpetuating fear in the masses - in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s the american populace was trained to be afraid of "the commies". Everyone knows this.

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

The danger is believing that it is 100% "wag the dog". It is obvious that there does exist numbers of people out there who are driven by a dogma that is centred on violence against all non-muslims. Yes, media has in interesting in exaggerating the threat because it draws more eyeballs and means more advertising $$$. The government has an interest to overplay the threat because of winning domestic approval for controversial foreign policy.

However - simply because domestic media sources and goverments may sensationalize and exaggerate the scope of the 'threat', to dispute the existence of a threat - regardless of size or severity - is denial.

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

the funny thing about your position is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the issues at hand. all you are really saying is:

1) i dont trust authority figures
2) i dont like bush
3) media is propaganda

and so on.

unfortunately you have already ruled out any room for solutions since you have already started with dismissing the very people who can do anything about it and indirectly defending those who take advantage of similar people to you with your attitudes.

for the most part discussing "iran" has ZERO to do with "iran" and more to do with "for/against the USA" "for/against Bush" "for/against Isreal"

meanwhile... they are maneuvering to take advantage people like you. you think others are "sheep" however your own position is no more balanced than that of those you so quickly dismiss. a great irony of those with your attitude is that you are the exact person you make fun of.

Originally Posted by Coatsy

I guess that's the problem that I have, a big percentage of Americans and Britains don't have that mental capacity to think for themselves anymore and that deeply concerns me because I personally hate being lied to.

Originally Posted by Coatsy

I feel that, like Iraq (the WMDs) Iran will just be another situation were the public will be misled (the nuclear program) to drum up support for invasion.

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

Unfortunately you have already ruled out any room for solutions since you have already started with dismissing the very people who can do anything about it and indirectly defending those who take advantage of similar people to you with your attitudes.

for the most part discussing "iran" has ZERO to do with "iran" and more to do with "for/against the USA" "for/against Bush" "for/against Isreal"

meanwhile... they are maneuvering to take advantage people like you. you think others are "sheep" however your own position is no more balanced than that of those you so quickly dismiss. a great irony of those with your attitude is that you are the exact person you make fun of.

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

they don't want to do anything stupid. they want nuclear bombs. once they have nuclear bombs, people have to stop and listen and even give them money.

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

..and they never will think for themselves. Educated people in the world are a small minority and it will always be that way, just like there will always be rich and poor, democrats and republicans, etc, etc.. One thing is constant throughout history - and that's people. People do not learn from history and people will always suffer from a myopic view of the world because of our short lifespans; the present is more relevant than the past or future by a huge margin and personal decisions are driven by base emotions to have the most effect on the present.

Things like that used to bother me until I started focusing on things that are in my control. It is a big weight off your shoulders when you realize that there are only so many facets of the world you can affect, and that the best you can hope to do is expand the reach of your influence to maybe someday make some positive change happen.

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

Unfortunately you have already ruled out any room for solutions since you have already started with dismissing the very people who can do anything about it and indirectly defending those who take advantage of similar people to you with your attitudes.

Originally Posted by Coatsy

I don't like being lied to or bullshited by my government, I don't trust them anymore because they have lied to us in the past (Iraq for a recent example)

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

a few unfortuneate truths in life

1) politics is about the art of lying.

2) any hint of an ability for deductive reasoning, you would force one to conclude that the other side is also lying.

3) if its agreed that both sides are lying, then you know that ultimately, you can only take a side and choose the lessor of two evils.

4) not doing so is not a solution.

Originally Posted by Coatsy

At 22 years of age I think I may have learnt a very important lesson in this thread from the last few posts :disgust

Thanks for the replies Pleasurepays and Dollarmansteve, I've learnt a few important things in this thread :thumbsup

Originally Posted by Thrawn$

anyway Iran attacked 0 countries in the last 200 years and america attacked every country except canada and uk in the last century

Originally Posted by Coatsy

Thats an excellent point, it could be the elections or it could be both. Would it not make perfect sense if something did happened just before the elections ?



That?s a great post! A lot of people in this thread fail to see that fanatics are nothing new and the terrorism threat is so far exaggerated that it?s laughable

The worst part - Islamic extremism is the result of the last 50 years of British, American, Russian and Israeli policy in the Middle East. We helped create it by doing pretty much what we're doing again now: occupying the region in our own interest (i.e. oil).

We created the problem!!

The government response is not proportional to the threat. If the aim is to save lives, that can be much better achieved by other means and by tackling different problems. Of course we shouldn't ignore the threat of terrorism, but the vast sums of money spent so far in the name of The War Against Terror (TWAT) in Iraq and Afghanistan have increased the threat, not reduced it. That's like trying to persuade people to stop smoking by making cigarettes cheaper.



Read this and let me know your thoughts, I think the article sums up nicely why we have been told that Iran is a threat

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/GF04Ad07.html

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

i'm impressed with your maturity.

reminds me that i have a lot more work to do :)

Originally Posted by pr0

I've got a super idea....i'll start a relegious thread next time :)

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

Things like that used to bother me until I started focusing on things that are in my control. It is a big weight off your shoulders when you realize that there are only so many facets of the world you can affect, and that the best you can hope to do is expand the reach of your influence to maybe someday make some positive change happen.

Originally Posted by Thrawn$

anyway Iran attacked 0 countries in the last 200 years and america attacked every country except canada and uk in the last century