Black Hawk Down: - GoFuckYourself.com

Pathfinder · 06-16-2002, 06:03 AM

I don't go to theaters, so I just yesterday watched Black Hawk down. I found the 2 hour documentary I watched to be better than the movie.

One of my retired military friend's son was a Ranger involved in the operation so I got some interesting first hand accounts from him.

The decision was made by the Secretary of Defense (Aspen?) to deny them the armor and the C-130 gunships they had requested. When a military operation goes south, it is the case more often than not, that civilian micro managment is the fault. Of course some operations just go sour.

Ultimately the Secretary of Defense resigned over the matter, but President Clinton was probably involved in the decision that was made, not to supply what the military had requested.

As a professional soldier you just have to suck it up when cilvilian micro managment costs you lives.

RW316 · 06-16-2002, 06:06 AM

most war movies dont show the reality....but some do like saving private ryan

JackFoley · 06-16-2002, 06:08 AM

BHD was just boring; no storyline, no characters, no idea what the fuck is going on.

Wildman · 06-16-2002, 06:43 AM

Hey Pathfinder,

Was Eric Bana any good as an American soldier?

Pathfinder · 06-16-2002, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wildman
Hey Pathfinder,

Was Eric Bana any good as an American soldier?

You will have to enlighten me as to who Eric Bana is? If I ever knew the name I have forgotten it.

Wildman · 06-16-2002, 06:57 AM

He is an Aussie actor, who didnt seem right for the role in the film - http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hc&id...cf=gen&intl=us

Pathfinder · 06-16-2002, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wildman
He is an Aussie actor, who didnt seem right for the role in the film - http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hc&id...cf=gen&intl=us

No wonder I didn't recognize the name. To tell you the truth he doesn't stand out in my mind. I would have to watch the movie again.

LoveAsianChicks · 06-16-2002, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JackFoley
BHD was just boring; no storyline, no characters, no idea what the fuck is going on.

A friend of mine actually walked out of the theatre. He said the same thing as the quote above: no story. no plot, no characters etc...Just a bunch of boring shit & a waste of time to sit there.

this aren't my words keep in mind. The previews always looked like the movie was full of action, unless all action in the movie is shown in the preview.
(like Pearl Harbor)

Pathfinder · 06-16-2002, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LoveAsianChicks

A friend of mine actually walked out of the theatre. He said the same thing as the quote above: no story. no plot, no characters etc...Just a bunch of boring shit & a waste of time to sit there.

The movie tried to be a semi documentary and did a pretty good job in that respect. I will gaurantee you it was not boring for the real people involved in the operation. Shooting people and being shot seldom is.

zubr · 06-16-2002, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LoveAsianChicks

A friend of mine actually walked out of the theatre. He said the same thing as the quote above: no story. no plot, no characters etc...Just a bunch of boring shit & a waste of time to sit there.

this aren't my words keep in mind. The previews always looked like the movie was full of action, unless all action in the movie is shown in the preview.
(like Pearl Harbor)

same here... the movie was shit!

playa · 06-16-2002, 07:41 AM

i thought the movie was great,,, amazing how many people the snipers killed protecting the down bird

Pathfinder · 06-16-2002, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by playa
i thought the movie was great,,, amazing how many people the snipers killed protecting the down bird

They did a great job (not just the movie). They both received the Congressional Medal of Honor. The reason is they did not have to go in and put themselves in harms way. They volunteered.

To paraphrase: Uncommon valor is common, when you are egaged in a firefight. Love of country, mom and apple pie has nothing to do with it. Love of your comrades and a sense of duty does.

hyper · 06-16-2002, 08:09 AM

thats why you never see movies that are in it for the $$

watch something like this
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ambush/

foe · 06-16-2002, 08:09 AM

I saw it, liked it a lot.

playa · 06-16-2002, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pathfinder

To paraphrase: Uncommon valor is common, when you are egaged in a firefight. Love of country, mom and apple pie has nothing to do with it. Love of your comrades and a sense of duty does.

no need to explain that to me,, i did my 5 years in the military,,,i have always explain that to others that never served

Pathfinder · 06-16-2002, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by playa

no need to explain that to me,, i did my 5 years in the military,,,i have always explain that to others that never served

Civilians that have never served don't have a clue and will never have a clue, by watching a movie.

In peace time soldiers in the field live in the weather, no matter how hot it is, or how cold it is, no matter how much it is raining or snowing. Peace time soldiers hump 70 lb packs (and more) 20 miles in eight hours. Peace time soldiers go for as long as 72 hours with little if any sleep and little food. Watching a movie about soldiers doing this doesn't provide a real sense of some of the miseries involved.

When it comes to combat no movie can portray it realistically.

The noise of war is unimaginable and cannot be portrayed in any movie. Just the noise of war can cause physical damage, and even death. The stench of war is horrendous and something you can't experience watching a movie and once having experienced it, it is something you will never forget. The physical and mental strength one must bring to bear, to overcome fear, mental and physical fatique, the misery of unforgiving cold, or heat, or mud, simply cannot be portrayed in a movie. I could go on, but the bottom line is; no movie gets even close to the reality of it all and there is not really an adequate way to explain it all.

Tanker · 06-16-2002, 10:38 AM

Well said Pathfinder

Tanker

Pathfinder · 06-16-2002, 10:56 AM

I am venting somewhat now, but for all that the soldier goes through, the highest paid enlisted rank does not pay as much as the minimum pay of a union capenter, or plumber, or steel worker, or heavy equipment operator, or electrician, (the list goes on) or even as much as a garbage man is paid in San Francisco.

This is the gratitude of the fat assed civilians (tax payers) and of our government. Some of those fat assed civilians that never served a day in the military, make decisions, such as was made in the Somali operation, that costs lives, but won't make the decision to pay the soldier as much as a union carpenter.

Why won't they make that decision? Because they might have to cut out some of their favorite pork barrel spending that helps them to get re-elected, by the people in their state. Or god forbid, they might have to raise taxes, and they don't want to upset the fat assed civilians, that want the military to protect them, but are not willing to pay a bit more in taxes to provide the soldier with as much pay as a garbage man makes in San Francisco.

I think I better stop here. My heart rate is climbing and I am to old for that.

playa · 06-16-2002, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pathfinder
I am venting somewhat now, but for all that the soldier goes through, the highest paid enlisted rank does not pay as much as the minimum pay of a union capenter, or plumber, or steel worker, or heavy equipment operator, or electrician, (the list goes on) or even as much as a garbage man is paid in San Francisco.

i was an E-5 and only making 750 every two weeks,, this even include baq,bas,,,

What was amazing to me is married soldiers with three kids,,,
i didn't know how the hell they survived,, its a damn shame knowing that these people were eligible to get food stamps and other government support

i thought i was rich when i got my first job making $16 an hour and only having to work 40 hours a week,, LOL

Pathfinder · 06-16-2002, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by playa

i was an E-5 and only making 750 every two weeks,, this even include baq,bas,,,

What was amazing to me is married soldiers with three kids,,,
i didn't know how the hell they survived,, its a damn shame knowing that these people were eligible to get food stamps and other government support

i thought i was rich when i got my first job making $16 an hour and only having to work 40 hours a week,, LOL

There are soldiers this very day that qualify for food stamps, and some of them take them, but most won't, because of pride, so they and their families just suck it up.

Not many years back, in Germany, the Geman people had food give aways and clothes give aways for the families of American soldiers because of the low pay and the cost of living in Germany at that point in time.

Pathfinder · 06-16-2002, 01:10 PM

Some of you Vets out there. Weigh in on the poor pay our boys in uniform receive.

uuurah!

Shoplifter · 06-16-2002, 02:22 PM

This was the most realistic movie about the LA Riots I have ever seen.

LoveAsianChicks · 06-16-2002, 03:31 PM

I just watched the movie & it was action packed but after 1 hour I was starting to get bored. Also think it was no the business of the UN or USA to go there.
They try to catch 1 guy and end up killing thousands & ruin a city. What a fuck up.

Pathfinder · 06-17-2002, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LoveAsianChicks
I just watched the movie & it was action packed but after 1 hour I was starting to get bored. Also think it was no the business of the UN or USA to go there.
They try to catch 1 guy and end up killing thousands & ruin a city. What a fuck up.

The original Somali mission was to feed starving people. Adid and his thugs were part of the reason there were starving people. In addition Adid and his thugs ambushed a UN unit and killed several soldiers. That action is the straw that broke the camel's back, so we went after him.

buran · 06-17-2002, 12:35 PM

What I didn't understand is why the door gunners on those UH-60's didn't just open up with the GE M143 miniguns. Those fuckers would level the shitty buildings. Also why didn't they have any serious air cover, like some Apache's.

Seems like they forgot the golden rule, "The more you use, the less you loose" -- ie, don't do something halfassed. If you're going to send troops in, send as many as possible with the best support possible to accomplish the job.

The movie makes Mogadishu seem like a city where everyone has an AK-47 and the desire to kill Americans. They cheered when the movie was shown in Somalia. Fuck it, next time, I say we let them starve. Let's take care of the US Citizens who don't have enough to eat.

If they had sent in AC-130H Spectre gunships like requested, well, they could have reduced to rubble all the buildings within small-arms range of the position they were trying to protect.

JConway · 06-17-2002, 01:17 PM

I thought it was a great flic. The "based on a true story" thing always seems to make it that much better for me.

06-16-2002, 06:03 AM	#1
Pathfinder theking of trailer parks Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tehachapi, California Posts: 2,290	Black Hawk Down: I don't go to theaters, so I just yesterday watched Black Hawk down. I found the 2 hour documentary I watched to be better than the movie. One of my retired military friend's son was a Ranger involved in the operation so I got some interesting first hand accounts from him. The decision was made by the Secretary of Defense (Aspen?) to deny them the armor and the C-130 gunships they had requested. When a military operation goes south, it is the case more often than not, that civilian micro managment is the fault. Of course some operations just go sour. Ultimately the Secretary of Defense resigned over the matter, but President Clinton was probably involved in the decision that was made, not to supply what the military had requested. As a professional soldier you just have to suck it up when cilvilian micro managment costs you lives. Last edited by Pathfinder; 06-16-2002 at 06:10 AM..

06-16-2002, 06:08 AM	#3
JackFoley Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pac-land Posts: 858	BHD was just boring; no storyline, no characters, no idea what the fuck is going on. __________________ SUBMIT \| TRADE \| CONTACT

06-16-2002, 08:09 AM	#13
hyper Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass Ass Posts: 5,294	thats why you never see movies that are in it for the $$ watch something like this http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ambush/ __________________

06-16-2002, 10:38 AM	#17
Tanker Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada Posts: 9,287	Well said Pathfinder Tanker __________________ Tanker ICQ 3427575 CCBTools Now featured in the CCBill.com APP STORE

06-16-2002, 10:56 AM	#18
Pathfinder theking of trailer parks Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tehachapi, California Posts: 2,290	I am venting somewhat now, but for all that the soldier goes through, the highest paid enlisted rank does not pay as much as the minimum pay of a union capenter, or plumber, or steel worker, or heavy equipment operator, or electrician, (the list goes on) or even as much as a garbage man is paid in San Francisco. This is the gratitude of the fat assed civilians (tax payers) and of our government. Some of those fat assed civilians that never served a day in the military, make decisions, such as was made in the Somali operation, that costs lives, but won't make the decision to pay the soldier as much as a union carpenter. Why won't they make that decision? Because they might have to cut out some of their favorite pork barrel spending that helps them to get re-elected, by the people in their state. Or god forbid, they might have to raise taxes, and they don't want to upset the fat assed civilians, that want the military to protect them, but are not willing to pay a bit more in taxes to provide the soldier with as much pay as a garbage man makes in San Francisco. I think I better stop here. My heart rate is climbing and I am to old for that. Last edited by Pathfinder; 06-16-2002 at 11:04 AM..

06-16-2002, 06:06 AM	#2
RW316 Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,103	most war movies dont show the reality....but some do like saving private ryan

06-16-2002, 06:43 AM	#4
Wildman Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 326	Hey Pathfinder, Was Eric Bana any good as an American soldier?

06-16-2002, 06:57 AM	#6
Wildman Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 326	He is an Aussie actor, who didnt seem right for the role in the film - http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hc&id...cf=gen&intl=us

06-16-2002, 07:41 AM	#11
playa Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: atlanta, GA Posts: 6,432	i thought the movie was great,,, amazing how many people the snipers killed protecting the down bird

06-16-2002, 08:09 AM	#14
foe Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: CT Posts: 5,246	I saw it, liked it a lot.

06-16-2002, 01:10 PM	#21
Pathfinder theking of trailer parks Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tehachapi, California Posts: 2,290	Some of you Vets out there. Weigh in on the poor pay our boys in uniform receive. uuurah!

06-16-2002, 02:22 PM	#22
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,785	This was the most realistic movie about the LA Riots I have ever seen.

06-16-2002, 03:31 PM	#23
LoveAsianChicks Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: -CANADA- Posts: 1,464	I just watched the movie & it was action packed but after 1 hour I was starting to get bored. Also think it was no the business of the UN or USA to go there. They try to catch 1 guy and end up killing thousands & ruin a city. What a fuck up.

06-17-2002, 12:35 PM	#25
buran Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: how'd I get here? Posts: 264	What I didn't understand is why the door gunners on those UH-60's didn't just open up with the GE M143 miniguns. Those fuckers would level the shitty buildings. Also why didn't they have any serious air cover, like some Apache's. Seems like they forgot the golden rule, "The more you use, the less you loose" -- ie, don't do something halfassed. If you're going to send troops in, send as many as possible with the best support possible to accomplish the job. The movie makes Mogadishu seem like a city where everyone has an AK-47 and the desire to kill Americans. They cheered when the movie was shown in Somalia. Fuck it, next time, I say we let them starve. Let's take care of the US Citizens who don't have enough to eat. If they had sent in AC-130H Spectre gunships like requested, well, they could have reduced to rubble all the buildings within small-arms range of the position they were trying to protect. __________________ [this signature intentionally left blank]

06-17-2002, 01:17 PM	#26
JConway Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 594	I thought it was a great flic. The "based on a true story" thing always seems to make it that much better for me.