and oh yeah, I would venture to guess that TMM and CCBILL had already been in touch and saw an anomoly before they ever posted anything on gfy

and also, would you rather they not post anything publicly, and allow webmasters to still send traffic?

whether there is wrong doing or not, it will get sorted out, and until that time I don't think the program in question should be recieving webmaster traffic...the best thing for everyone involved is to pull the plug

I am also pretty positive that if it does come down to the fact that there was no wrong doing, that NATS will make that fact very public

No reputation has been ruined, and especially on GFY. Anyone can go from asshole to saint here in a matter of minutes with the right type of response.

This has yet to be seen. It could still happen though :2 cents:

John says it right here

A simple question that hasnt been answered, that will clear it up -

John have you any evidence that they are shaving or is it just speculation?

read that statement again, you are not reading it right

what it says is this....

we talked to ccbill and the data between ccbill and Nats didn't add up when it came to rebills. We tried to contact the Nats license owner about it, and he hung up on us.

LOL...oh wait, you are right....NATS just took a guess and thought that xclusive cash looked like a bad program, so they called them out hoping they would come forward, but NATS had no info to support anything they said

NATS decided they woul;d put their entire business and operations on the line because of a guess...LOL

jesus, what world do you live in?

He never accused them of shaving, he said there were discrepencies in the number of rebills being reported. What part of that are you not getting? Everyone else accused them of shaving, John did not. He said things didn't add up, he contacted them about it to try to fix it, they cursed and hung up. Maybe slow down and read every word. Not every other word.

So you read that as "This data shows they shave"? - because that was insuated and thats how most took it.

I read it as "We have a data discrepency that shows something is wrong, we dont know what it is yet"

It was insuated by the tone and wording of the post - as you well know.

He was perfectly aware of what the effect of the post would be - to damage their reputation.

He also stated that this type of discrepency has occoured before (Mayor's Money) and was corrected with cooperation on the program's part. Something that could have happened here had that phone call gone smoother I would assume.

Again - That makes my point - The problem was the phone call - and its not a good enough reason to do what he did.

The fact there has been a similar issue in past makes it even more likly that this is a tech issue and shouldnt have come to the board until it was clarified.

what if it had been a tech issue from 6 months ago that was never cleared up, and xclusive knew all along that there was an issue? what if xclusive cash purposely never fixed it so that they got the rebills?

what if that one single phone call was to figure it all out and get the 6 months worth of data corrected, and NATS was only met with a "fuck you"?

the way I see it, if this is as serious as it looks to be, xclusive cash just told TMM to go fuck themselves when TMM was just trying to make things right and get affiliates their money

I am just taking a stab in the dark though.

sig spotting

Even if it was a technical glitch, how the fuck did they not notice?

Again just more speculation - If I came to the board and acused someone of cheating everyone would scream for proof or shut the fuck up - John has said he hasnt been able to look into it enough and prove anything, the fact that it has been an issue before should also tell you something.

wow, i hope you are never on a jury! you seem to perceive things no one else does.

But Too Much Media isn't some guy who got screwed on a link trade. They run one of the most respected and used programs in adult. I just can't imagine them doing this without having some really good info.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if I am, TMM just made one of the dumbest fucking moves in the history of this business. They would have single handidly destroyed their reputation over some board drama.

He would have found Robert Blake guilty of killing Nicole Simpson

Hey, maybe they're not telling you everything they know!

They might have been advised to make the issue public because affiliates were still sending traffic. Allowing others to loose money is also not a good call. :2 cents:

well good to see this thing from other side of the wall

Hmmm.... they didn't notice the extra income piling up due to rebills not being paid out to their affiliates.

The sound of axes grinding is almost deafening...

Whatever you choose to read into the original post, it was a carefully phrased statement of fact: discrepancies had been reported to NATS, they attempted to contact the client about the issue, were spoken to in abusive language and hung up on. They suspended the client's license.

By what possible logic are you turning Xclusive into the victim? Their reaction to NATS' call is what changed discrepancies into the perception of possible cheating. If they had behaved professionally and resolved the issue, there would have been no statement for NATS to make, let alone one which lent itself to a very negative interpretation.

cough cough.....I would imagine they did

TMM just saw another opportunity to promote themselves as the white knights of adult fighting against shaving.
Imagine you being an honest program-owner doing the best you can for every party involved and after a hard day you get a phonecall from some software develloper telling you "hey fucker you are shaving, we caught you and unless you suck up we are going to expose you" how would you react? We have no idea how the initial phonecall went. It's easy to put blaim and only listen to the side of the story that suits you. I believe it's very unresponible behavior of tmm of posting such accusations after 1phonecall without actually knowing themselves what happend. I hope for them they can make the accusations hard and otherswise all program owners should consider what TMM can do to their program.

Yeah...I'm sure John would call up them and say hey fucker you are shaving...

bit of a drama, hope it gets sorted

Okay lets put a twist on this...

John doesn't make a thread...He suspends their license and waits for Xclusive to figure out they are going to have to be professional to get things straight...

Later that day...Xclusive makes a thread on gfy "NATS LOCKED US OUT OF OUR SYSTEM!!!" Wow...This would have gone alot different eh?

Every webmaster would have jumped on NATS about them loosing income because Xclusive couldn't log in and do anything...All of the sudden all the heat is on NATS because they were doing the responsible thing...Not to mention im sure its in their original contract or terms of service with Xclusive...

John is protecting his products integrity and name...See how many licenses he has with different sponsors? Would he risk all that over one site? Certain things he can't say on GFY...Just because he didn't give us a 5 page report on what was said or what was done or what is seen. Doesn't mean he doesn't have the proof or the justice for this.

Xclusive makes it as if John called them and said they are shaving...and refused to show them the proof...Notice how he added all the crap before saying the phone call with John...what does that matter for this situation?

how does a 3rd party report discrepancies? only people with access to both the nats admin and ccbill stats would have the ability to see a discrepancy.

how is xclusivecash supposed to pay their affiliates without access to the admin?

this is curious indeed.

LOL...i always have to laugh at shit like this

yeah, a multi-million dollar a year company is going to play GFY drama queen and post shit on the boards without having any hard proof

yeah, right

You can't be serious.

Do realize how damaging this information would be for TMM and EVERY CLIENT of NATS if the info was released by an outside party?

I would venture to guess that is the least of their worries

in fact, i KNOW that is the least of their worries right now

my big question is actually this...how are they going to afford to pay affiliates the back pay from those rebills?

i was not expecting a statement saying: yeah. we shaved, i confirm it lol
so im not surprised

People run their mouth too much most of the time...Or a ton of rebills not rebilling...

Anything can lead to a simple investigation on NATS...If no one is guilty...then no issues checking things out to make sure.

That would have probably helped their case better

Okay Okay...we did it...we shaved...Whenever John hit me up...I was stressed from my trip...And I got frustrated because we got caught...It caught me totally off guard...I thought no one would know...Then out of the blue I got this call...Yeah I cussed at him and hung out...I feel really bad and unprofessional...Okay everyone we are sorry...We won't shave again...Here's a cookie lets just pretend this didn't happen...


Hey it worked for other GFY'ers

That is a good question. I'm sure TMM would have a limited access for payment or a dump of the payroll information. Inside NATS it's easy to dump the payroll information in multiple formats.

Though in all appearances it does not sound like correct affiliate payments were a big issue before. Affiliates of Xclusive sound like they'll be in for a nice windfall when/if this issue is cleared up, similar to the Mayors Money correction in May.

The principles of Xclusive should have a talk with Mayors Money to see how to correctly handle a situation like this. :2 cents:

P.S. Not saying ANYTHING negative against Mayors Money at all. They are an amazing program. :)

"Oh shit, there is a problem? Show me the figures/proof and we will get it sorted out." Not piss off and only talk to my lawyer. But that's just me I suppose.

That doesn't really sound to me like someone interested in getting the issue resolved quickly and affiliates paid. It looks more like someone stalling for time.

Yep... :Oh crap

Presuming they were innocent of 'shaving' this is another example of people in the porn business with no real idea on how to conduct themselves properly in a business environment.

At any stage of this it could have been resolved with no damage done, even after the initial thread. Both the initial reaction to the problem and following it up with lawyers has increased the damage to reputation 100 fold. Communicating with TMM at any stage and psoting that this has been resolved and was a simple mistake and understanding would have prevented almost any damage. It may even have been a good thing and given xclusivecash some high profile publicity.

As it stands though the speculation will continue for a very long time and nobody will benefit other than lawyers. Crazy.