whats wrong with hugging a tree (besides getting splinters)??

laws and morals hangin' out with each other. life is good.

Yes, they are...and are paying for their crime in prison...
BUT, it is not the job of the correction officer to beat the inmates up..their job is care , custody, and control...what they did is also against the law. So, technically they are no better for doing what they did.

FT

Is it the corrupted system that put him in prison? Is it the abusive father that beat the fuck out of him? Is it the alcoholic step mother that destroyed his self esteem? Who else has had problems in their life the resulted in terrible circumstances, funny how no one looks at the inmate as a fucking lunatic but instead as the completely competent human who just walked into an ass beating. I'm sure that he got what he deserved and maybe next time he remember what a correctional institution is meant to do. To all the people who are crying about it what would you do? Put yourself in that situation.

If my son threatened to kill me, he'd get more than a cheap shot, no matter how old he was.

And yes, of course, everyone's innocent in prison.

Kimmy,

how would you feel if 6 big guys put Eli in restraints, then kicked is ass black and blue becuase he was bad mouthing them?

I'd be willing to bet that if it happened to your child, you'd be the pround new owner of a prison!! You'd sue their asses off...

;) Hello BTW.. lol

-KC

The issue here is not what the inmate did to get in prison..(whatever it was-he is paying for it by being in prison) - the issue is this guy complaining he and others got suspended for beating an inmate up...which is also against the law. How is he any better? He broke a law too!...so he and the others should do some time also. It sickens me how people in authority take advantage and do things like this and more!!!!

"beating an inmate up" is not really the full story. This inmate armed himself and threatened to kill these guys.

That's a little different than 5 guys getting together and just kicking the shit out of an inmate who was sitting there being a good little inmate.

sounds to me like you've had your head kicked in many times.....

I tell him like my dad used to tell me -- you go to jail, don't call me to bail you out. ;)

Oh and my wireless isn't right yet either, what's your travel schedule looking like? ;)))

Nope, I got my black belt in Tae Kwon Do by the time I was a freshman in high school.. I always thought I'd use it to kick some ass... funny thing, I treated people with respect and was respected.. so I got into maybe only 1 or 2 scuffles.

Kman, you're view of the situation will be a bit skewed since your from the USMC... I'm sure you think the kid deserved it. Isn't that how the chain of command works? Us civillians don't quite work that way.. We're given the right to question those in power.

So in this case, I'd say this asshole Zapman was way out of line. He abused his power as a prison guard, by handing a group ass whooping to a RESTRAINED inmate...

I would love to see this inmate come sue your ass in civil court... Get a judgement and send your ass (and your 5 jailer cronies) working for a jailed inmate for the next several years!

-KC

Zap,
Being that you are the camera man, you should of caught every detail on tape. The only thing you and your team are to do, is Restrain and Remove the problem. Not kick them while they are down. With you admitting to missing that part of the action on tape, (where the inmate got the black eye) looks fishy to me. I think most inmates are low life scum. But what does that make people who beat someone in restraints. If you like your job, you should go by policy. Not be a part of a "Barney Bad Ass team"

Being suspened without pay sucks, You may check into what Bruce said earlier in the thread.

Shit happens? That's bullshit.
If you're a CO then your JOB is to maintain order and restrain the prisoners if they get out of line. Not to seek retribution for something a prisoner might have said or done. Its your JOB, and your personal feelings should have no effect on how you perform your duties.
You're right, you couldn't be a CO, and apparently neither can the guy who gave him a black eye while he was in restraints, or the guy who "accidentaly slipped" and didn't catch the act on camera.
You either have the temperament for the trade or you don't.

If it wasn't WRONG to take cheap shots on inmates then they wouldn't be required to pull out the video camera along with the bats and hats would they?

i have to respond.

i have been on both sides of the bars. 10 years this side, 4 days that side. and, both sides SUCK!

i do not advocate kicking anyone's ass or beating anyone down. learned a long time ago that it is much easier to handle it before it goes to blows. namely, the civiil liability is simply not worth it.

however, when deadly force is threatened (by either side) it changes the complextion of the situation. that's why most progressive depts. use beanbags, rubber bullets, taser, etc.

what is particulary disturbing to me is the blatent admission to beating the prisoner down. dude, better get your head straight before it hits internal affairs.

again, i do not condone excessive force. but, i do endorse peace officer rights. as long as the affected c/o is operating within legitimate perameters.

word of advice for whatever it's worth; if you're going to conduct business in that fashion, don't discuss it in a public venue. 0r, if you do, take caution with regards your summarizing. you already look guilty and IA only looks at perception.

ok, sorry, i'm ranting.

thats a completely different situation. if the guy has a weapon you have to do something. beating the piss out of him isn't necessary after the situation is under control. but you have to use some force so the situation doesn't get out of hand.

Why do people in this country always stand up for the criminals?
This guy made a weapon, and was threatening the life of the CO who was just trying to do his job. He got punished for it. Fuck the prisoner.

Helluva interesting thread.

I think that up until the point he was restrained and no longer a threat that all reasonable bets were off - anyone is going to get hurt in that situation. But after the fucker was in restraints and posing a threat to nobody - and undoubtedly already beaten into submission - everything after that was bullshit. It would seem to me that a) he's just gotten his ass kicked and been put into restraints and b) he's going to receive further punishment inside the prison for the incident (I'm assuming). What more are we supposed to do to this guy? Beating him more just makes the officers vigilantes and the guy's already serving his time and will likely get MORE for doing this new stuff.

Brad

if you play you pay, he played, and got beat down....

i've gotten beaten down by 4 'blood' wannabe mother fuckers once after i kicked 2 of their friends asses, hell i was on the ground and they were still kicking me......

so whats the difference when the cops do it to someone? hell, at least the inmate probably got what he deserved!

fuck all this. if a dude makes a weapon and challenges the guards he deserves an asskicking, what the fuck else is he doing it for? should they run in and hug him? give him a black eye and call his momma a whore.

Zap - please shut up. I'm sure here is quite many people who don't like cops or anything that smells like that. At least I don't like.

If you have been a part of the situation you told - you have got what you have deserved. Nothing less. Let's hope that this poor bastard don' have a good lawyer - otherwise you might find yourself beeing a part of legal nightmare.

Now it would be good time to start working as a full time webmaster and forget such fucking positions like your previeous one.

Good luck - Mercenaries never die - they go to the hell and regourp.

Wow! That was a whole bunch of reading. I like how my story changes from post to post.

I have been honestly deeply moved by the responses to this thread. I feel I should clarify a few little things just so that future posters are more informed.

To begin I personally never laid a hand on the kid. I ran the camera, and I will admit that I tried to miss the part when the Lt. gave him a black eye and told him to knock off the bullshit. Where I was in the wrong was not reporting this to anyone.

I have personally been involved in Aprox 30 planned use of force inncidents in the past three years. I will admit that I have thrown a punch or two but only to control the situation and never after restraints had been applied.

I started my job as a CO when I got out of High School for the fact that I could make 30k a year with a HS education. And I have been rewarded greatly by my job. I work weekends hollidays and sometimes 80+ hours per week. I have been pissed on spit at had food thrown at me cleaned up hundreds of pounds of human feces and been assaulted verbally on a daily basis. I have been involved in a riot situation where I tackled an inmate who had a softball bat while one of the guys he was fighting with got shot two feet away from me.

As far as my childhood, it was great I was popular and got laid a couple times! I have always been friends with anyone who was willing to let me be their friend. I have been in my share of fights. I have gotten my ass kicked and I have kicked some ass. I would not say that I aam on a power trip.

Anyone who has been on either side of a prison life knows that shit happens. Prisons are not fun, and even though they seem like summer camps at times they are not.

As for what state I am in I probably should not say. I will say that it is not california, though I wish it was for the simple fact that the largest union in the country is the California Dept of Corrections union.

I guess I have said my part, I will clarify further if need be but I am sure that this will not be read anyway.

Unless that is something relatively new; you are incorrect. A school mate of mine spent 23 years as a CO and at one point in time he was suspended for 12 months without pay.

Just curious, this wouldn't happen to be a Mexican prison that you work in, would it? Was the guy you beat down in for fuckin with some Federalis?

They did not do their job. The "goon squad's" job is to subdue not to abuse.

The conduct was unprofessional (and illegal). I have a very low tolerance for unprofessional conduct. If the system is not totally corrupt, after the investigation, there should be a parmanent loss of jobs.

I was right when I said that nobody would read my new post.

Scroll up then remove foot.

strike that, I was upset.

The only thing that I was in the wrong for was not correctly running the camera and not reporting that the Lt. was way out of line.

Did I mention that there were three other cell extractions that day that no questions were raised about.

One guy with a piece of "easily broken" plastic vs 5 guys in riot gear.............. I don't think you need to say anymore except that the way hollywood portrays US jails is obviously true!

JO

How about you take him all by yourself. We'll call the ambulence.

Oh fucking christ.

Stop twisting the story around KC (and others). This is getting downright fucking pathetic.

The kid made a weapon. Ever see those hard mcdonalds type trays? The ones where if you smash them they shatter into plexi-glass like shards? Guessing that's the type of plastic. It may as well be steel when driven through a ribcage.

So anyways, a kid has a weapon and needs to be subdued. He made threats. They went in, did what it took to take him down w/ the least amount of risk to themselves (i.e. knock his ass down HARD, and FAST), and then retrained him. Yeah, the kid got some bruises and shit, but thems the shakes when you threaten those bigger and badder than you. He deserved that.

The ONLY THING THAT HAPPENED WHICH WAS WRONG, was the *ONE PUNCH* thrown by *ONE GUY* while the kid was restrained. THAT was wrong. The one guy should probably be reprimanded and possibly suspended, and watched to see if it's an ongoing problem. A once-off like that I do not believe is grounds for dismissal, but that can be up for debate. The fact is the ONE GUY fucked up, and the rest of the guys tried to cover for him. Willing to bet they prolly restrained/told the guy to knock it the fuck off too.

I have absolutely NO fucking sympathy for the punkass kid. Do your time peacefully, and stop trying to be a little badass with an attitude problem. Sounds like he needed the shit kicked out of him a couple times when he was a kid growin up or something. Fucking lack of discipline.

Anyways, my opinion matters not. Stick with the facts is all I'm asking. One guy, threw one punch, and that is ALL that is being contested. The rest was 100% legal, and justified in the eyes of the law and any reasonable human. If you don't think taking the kid down by force was justified, you can go live with them on some island or something.

Shrug.

-Phil

Yeah I gotta agree, if one guy wants to take a punch for all the shit he takes, I'm pretty sure he's gonna pick a worthwhile victim for his one punch. So assuming the worst guy gets it I got no problems with that. In jail you're a pussy if you don't stand up for yourself, but as soon as a guard does it they point fingers... Imagine the patience it would take to work there.. Whatever, I been punched many times and I ain't got people feelin sorry for me.. please.

Socks

ZapMan:

As you tell the story your role was not abusive, but, as you are fully aware, you did not do the job you were trained to do.

I am sure everyone remembers the "Rodney King" incident.

There were something like 26 police officers on the scene. Only four or five were actually involved in the beating inflicted on Rodney King.

Some of the officers at the scene were members of the California Highway Patrol. All of the CHP's received an official repremand that went into their jackets, for not attempting to stop and/or arrest the officers that were beating Rodney King.

My point being that you, at the least deserve an official repremand. The ones that actually were abusive should be terminated, or at the very least, suspended for a long period of time, without pay.

The "goon squad" is trained to take control and subdue, not to abuse.

I have known several CO's who made careers of it, one being, the one that I mentioned that was a school mate of mine and was a CO for 23 years, and another, also being a school mate of mine, who spent 30 years.

From some of the stories they have told me it is not a pleasant job (an understatement), which is understandable, and it is difficult not to take things personally and to maintain a professional attitude, but as someone once said; "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".

To remind some of you; this was posted by ZapMan:

Pay attention to "we had gotten away with". Sounds to me to be more than just a punch delivered by the LT.

You have a very good point Pathfinder. I did say 'we' and I meant it in the context of I help my fellow co-workers to commit wrong doings. The punch from the LT. was pretty bad and the fact that the camera didn't see it was pretty bad also.

I could give you background on the inmate but I do not feel it is appropriate.

I did wrong. I am suffering for it. But I am sure I will make good from the situation.

Feel free to continue discussing, but I am out. Peace!

hey pathfinder, go to your greenpeace convention already would ya?

I think they should give them Paintball guns

Wow i'm so impressed 5 guys beating up on one. You guys are so tough.

i hope you lose your job moron!

send me a email ! if you like work....
[email protected]

I would not like to think that you, being a Marine, and presumably being a professional, approve of unprofessional behavior.

I have no problem with using whatever force you need to control what was a dangerous situation. I do have a problem with you 'accidently' not filming bits. Make me not want to ever trust anything a gaurd, police like figure says..which is not a good place for us to be in society.

I think they are right to call you on it because if they didn't it would open the doors to more serious actions being over looked. Your also lucky that no one will read your post and connect the dots to the situation because you just admitted what happened.

Am I the only person who read the part about the prisoner with a weapon & threatening people?

Many of you are acting like an innocent man was just beaten by 5-6 guys for no reason. That wasn't the case.
The man who was beaten is a criminal & even while in jail, this man continues to act violent and cause problems to people around him.

I don't feel bad some cronic offender & low-life was beaten down.

Yeah I read that part, but it still does not give the right to abuse.
When you take a job like that, you know the risks. There are unstable people that have to be attended to. You are trained to restrain and remove the problem, not be Barney Bad ass and take out your frustrations of the world. The inmate is in there for poor impulse control to start with.

I worked in Mental Health for six years. I was with the kind of people that would give you nightmares. (criminally insane) Never once did I ever have the urge to pop one of the patients while in restraints, or otherwise. I was liked and respected by the majority of the population. Even the ones I had to restrain many times.

I would think the ones who got suspened maybe should take up being a bouncer at a bar, or a bounty. Thats a muscle job.

Proportionate response is legal. Disproportionate response is an abuse of authority and should be punished.

Hehehe nice underhanded reference to Immanuel Kant. Good job on the understated philosophy references.

fuck the shit starting little bitch kid.

someone (the biggest and strongest guard) should've kicked him in the mouth. then on the nose.

hard. :mad: :mad: