Another 2257 Inspection - Robert Hill Releasing

[C H R I S]

CHATSWORTH, Calif. - Adult company Robert Hill Releasing Co. has confirmed that it has been visited today by the FBI on a 2257 investigation.

Lynton, owner of Robert Hill Releasing, told AVN.com that the agents were interested in "five or six titles," mostly involving younger performers. Lynton said that agents are still at the company, copying indentification documents and other materials.

http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary...tent_ID=272838

[TheLegacy]

thanx chris - we can only hope that everyone has their records in order so that these agents will realize its not us that is producing this content and we are doing things by the books

[Tom_PM]

Seems to be the pattern. Younger looking performers, primary producers. I'd be interested if they limit the search to the docs as detailed in the regs, or the whole building as in the last one.

[C H R I S]

Originally Posted by TheLegacy

thanx chris - we can only hope that everyone has their records in order so that these agents will realize its not us that is producing this content and we are doing things by the books

I actually think it will take quite some time to get around to the Internet producers... so far all their targets have been Video producers in the Porn Valley area...

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by AVNChris

CHATSWORTH, Calif. - Adult company Robert Hill Releasing Co. has confirmed that it has been visited today by the FBI on a 2257 investigation.

Lynton, owner of Robert Hill Releasing, told AVN.com that the agents were interested in "five or six titles," mostly involving younger performers. Lynton said that agents are still at the company, copying indentification documents and other materials.

http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary...tent_ID=272838

Seems like we are seeing one of these every other day now. They said they will continue through December, but I doubt they will stop there.

Even though everyone has "passed" - I would not be suprsied at all if so charges are filed against people they've inspected. They will take the evidence, go to the courts, and then weeks (maybe months) later charges will be filed.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

Seems like we are seeing one of these every other day now. They said they will continue through December, but I doubt they will stop there.

Even though everyone has "passed" - I would not be suprsied at all if so charges are filed against people they've inspected. They will take the evidence, go to the courts, and then weeks (maybe months) later charges will be filed.

I think you are right. I think they are being told that they need convictions no matter what it takes. No matter how good your records are, there is always a chance for a minor clerical error. It gives them opportunity to build up a few of these cases and get the headline they are looking for near election time. "Government busts Illegal Child Porn Makers".

This government has proven they have little regard for law.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Seems to be the pattern. Younger looking performers, primary producers. I'd be interested if they limit the search to the docs as detailed in the regs, or the whole building as in the last one.

it also seems they all have video's in distribution not just the net.

[gregtx]

would like to know what titles those 5-6 were.. and which performers are in question...

[madawgz]

hopefully nobody goes to jail

[scardog]

At least it appears they are looking for performers that are too young, and not trying to railroad the guys over record keeping. So far anyway.

[Mutt]

it is absolutely ridiculous if they are going after companies they know have shot girls they have some suspicion about being of legal age or in fact know of girls who have been shot when underage ........ because NOBODY in Porn Valley shoots an underage girl on purpose - from time to time a girl like Traci Lords shows up with great fake ID's - nobody was ever charged for shooting Traci Lords because there was no case to be made - the producers were duped.

frightening if this is what they are up to - because if they have a few performers the feds have discovered were underage they will find a way i think this time to charge people and feed the media a scandal - that the LA porn industry has been shooting underage talent. What they will sell to the public is that what we do does in fact exploit children, even if it's accidental - gaining public support to shut the entire industry down. That the fact that underage girls slip by without anybody in the industry noticing shows that we are incapable of looking out for the welfare of those girls led into porn by promises of money and excitement.

it is very possible that they have proof of underage performers that the industry doesn't know yet are underage - most producers don't inspect the ID's much - my guy Marco P on a few occassions has been suspicious of ID's and calls the agency to question them and alert them - Jim South does send out emails sometimes where he alerts producers that a model's ID's look suspicious.

[C H R I S]

Originally Posted by Mutt

it is absolutely ridiculous if they are going after companies they know have shot girls they have some suspicion about being of legal age or in fact know of girls who have been shot when underage ........ because NOBODY in Porn Valley shoots an underage girl on purpose - from time to time a girl like Traci Lords shows up with great fake ID's - nobody was ever charged for shooting Traci Lords because there was no case to be made - the producers were duped.

frightening if this is what they are up to - because if they have a few performers the feds have discovered were underage they will find a way i think this time to charge people and feed the media a scandal - that the LA porn industry has been shooting underage talent. What they will sell to the public is that what we do does in fact exploit children, even if it's accidental - gaining public support to shut the entire industry down. That the fact that underage girls slip by without anybody in the industry noticing shows that we are incapable of looking out for the welfare of those girls led into porn by promises of money and excitement.

it is very possible that they have proof of underage performers that the industry doesn't know yet are underage - most producers don't inspect the ID's much - my guy Marco P on a few occassions has been suspicious of ID's and calls the agency to question them and alert them - Jim South does send out emails sometimes where he alerts producers that a model's ID's look suspicious.

Good points....

[Manowar]

Seems to be increasing big time

[scardog]

Originally Posted by Mutt

it is absolutely ridiculous if they are going after companies they know have shot girls they have some suspicion about being of legal age or in fact know of girls who have been shot when underage ........ because NOBODY in Porn Valley shoots an underage girl on purpose - from time to time a girl like Traci Lords shows up with great fake ID's - nobody was ever charged for shooting Traci Lords because there was no case to be made - the producers were duped.

frightening if this is what they are up to - because if they have a few performers the feds have discovered were underage they will find a way i think this time to charge people and feed the media a scandal - that the LA porn industry has been shooting underage talent. What they will sell to the public is that what we do does in fact exploit children, even if it's accidental - gaining public support to shut the entire industry down. That the fact that underage girls slip by without anybody in the industry noticing shows that we are incapable of looking out for the welfare of those girls led into porn by promises of money and excitement.

it is very possible that they have proof of underage performers that the industry doesn't know yet are underage - most producers don't inspect the ID's much - my guy Marco P on a few occassions has been suspicious of ID's and calls the agency to question them and alert them - Jim South does send out emails sometimes where he alerts producers that a model's ID's look suspicious.

If this were the case, wouldn't the people that have already been inspected been arrested?

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by scardog

If this were the case, wouldn't the people that have already been inspected been arrested?

as somebody above said - they'll gather the evidence now - and then go back and contruct a case.

i don't think they can charge somebody who shot an underage girl who presented ID's that are passably credible - but who knows - maybe they would and make the case that the agents, producers did not do their due diligence.

i dunno - i'm just thinking out loud. the fact that they are looking at specific titles with young talent in them really does seem to me that they know something . hell i wouldn't put it past this particular government that some underage girls were planted by them.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Planting underage girls?

Fascinating.
FBI get's a 15 year old agent or 17 let's say, she goes to set, does double anal bukkake scene and we are the bad guys?

[Kimmykim]

Interesting choices they've been making in studios as well it seems. I don't see reports (unless I missed them) of anyone going into VCA, Hustler, Vivid, Legend or any of the other big guys, just the smaller guys so far...

does anyone have a running list of who's been inspected? Wouldn't be a bad idea to keep one going somewhere.

[Kimmykim]

Actually I found the latest AVN update on their site --
http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary...tent_ID=272838

"I believe they're going to be going down the road, from what I understand," he said. "I believe they're picking out companies and they're going to be checking 2257. They indicated that they know more or less the top companies, that they know their paperwork is going to be more or less correct. I believe from what they're indicating that they believe, with some of the smaller companies, is where they're going to be finding problems."

[pocketkangaroo]

I believe the only reason people weren't charged in the Traci Lords fiasco was because her identification was actually legally given to her by the US. Didn't she go in with fake docs and get a fake license or something? The US couldn't convict since the documents used were actually legally given to her.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

Interesting choices they've been making in studios as well it seems. I don't see reports (unless I missed them) of anyone going into VCA, Hustler, Vivid, Legend or any of the other big guys, just the smaller guys so far...

does anyone have a running list of who's been inspected? Wouldn't be a bad idea to keep one going somewhere.

only three which seems weird if they have 16 teams in each region.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

Interesting choices they've been making in studios as well it seems. I don't see reports (unless I missed them) of anyone going into VCA, Hustler, Vivid, Legend or any of the other big guys, just the smaller guys so far...

does anyone have a running list of who's been inspected? Wouldn't be a bad idea to keep one going somewhere.

They don't have the balls to go after a company that can form a strong defense.

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Planting underage girls?

Fascinating.
FBI get's a 15 year old agent or 17 let's say, she goes to set, does double anal bukkake scene and we are the bad guys?

they wouldn't have to use a underage girl - they can invent a girl and her documents - sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory but governments have done worse than this to achieve an objective.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

I believe the only reason people weren't charged in the Traci Lords fiasco was because her identification was actually legally given to her by the US. Didn't she go in with fake docs and get a fake license or something? The US couldn't convict since the documents used were actually legally given to her.

Saw this on Wikipedia:

The Justice Department was forced to drop all charges when it was revealed that the fake ID which Lords had used to dupe the pornographic film industry was a U.S. passport in the name of Traci Lords - the government had been duped, and any defendant would simply have been able to hide behind the government's error.

ADG Webmaster

[tony286]

I assume Diabolic is a big company.

[tony286]

Your right Tracy Lords had a government issued passport for id , how do you challenge that its bullshit. In porn they have checked id's long before 2257. Maybe when the FSC gets a new head they will drive home adult porn is not child porn one has nothing to do with the other.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Mutt

they wouldn't have to use a underage girl - they can invent a girl and her documents - sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory but governments have done worse than this to achieve an objective.

Hey now! Didn't you say a long ass time ago that I was the one with the tin foil hat around here?

I am looking at it from a realist point of view. FBI guy's are not a bunch of psycho bible thumper watch dog's, they are people just like you or me.

I for one believe we are on the same page as the FBI. We do not want fucker's exploiting children. They are looking around, and I would bet they are looking for somthing particular at this point.

If it is general type record inspection's then they are doing the paper work for the government which we know and they know will full fill whatever some dumb ass half baked commitee crying about morality thats the pay roll of some religous dipshits.
If the FBI is actually doing thier job, then good.

God knows they out to be stopping a shipment of Cocain comming in the country amoung far more pressing problems in our society. FBI knows it to, they are just doing thier job.

[collegeboyslive]

They need to help us by giving us tools to easily verify an ID.

why not have an 8000# that you can call, enter in the ID and it will read back the name and DOB from the DL records database. easy and simple to at least verify the person has a valid DL #

maybe a web site that will display the photo as well would be even better

[tony286]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Hey now! Didn't you say a long ass time ago that I was the one with the tin foil hat around here?

I am looking at it from a realist point of view. FBI guy's are not a bunch of psycho bible thumper watch dog's, they are people just like you or me.

I for one believe we are on the same page as the FBI. We do not want fucker's exploiting children. They are looking around, and I would bet they are looking for somthing particular at this point.

If it is general type record inspection's then they are doing the paper work for the government which we know and they know will full fill whatever some dumb ass half baked commitee crying about morality thats the pay roll of some religous dipshits.
If the FBI is actually doing thier job, then good.

God knows they out to be stopping a shipment of Cocain comming in the country amoung far more pressing problems in our society. FBI knows it to, they are just doing thier job.

very good point

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by tony404

I assume Diabolic is a big company.

medium sized for the video industry.

[modF]

Originally Posted by AVNChris

I actually think it will take quite some time to get around to the Internet producers... so far all their targets have been Video producers in the Porn Valley area...

I thought they did inspections in PA the other day?

[Sarah_Jayne]

Originally Posted by AVNChris

I actually think it will take quite some time to get around to the Internet producers... so far all their targets have been Video producers in the Porn Valley area...

I grew up near Bethlehem, PA it is far from the Porn Valley.

[Matt 26z]

I'm one of the biggest conspiracy theorists you'll ever meet, but I don't think an evil plot to destroy porn exists behind 2257.

In fact 2257 was implemented to protect producers and the government from one another. A compliant producer can't be put on trial for a pediatrician to testify that some of his unknown models could be under 18. Likewise, it saves the government from wasting resources on wrongful trials.

The recent primary producer checks can mean only a good thing for this industry. How many times has the media implied that adult entertainment and CP go hand in hand? The results of this major FBI records check will be our silver bullet to these claims.

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Hey now! Didn't you say a long ass time ago that I was the one with the tin foil hat around here?

I am looking at it from a realist point of view. FBI guy's are not a bunch of psycho bible thumper watch dog's, they are people just like you or me.

I for one believe we are on the same page as the FBI. We do not want fucker's exploiting children. They are looking around, and I would bet they are looking for somthing particular at this point.

If it is general type record inspection's then they are doing the paper work for the government which we know and they know will full fill whatever some dumb ass half baked commitee crying about morality thats the pay roll of some religous dipshits.
If the FBI is actually doing thier job, then good.

God knows they out to be stopping a shipment of Cocain comming in the country amoung far more pressing problems in our society. FBI knows it to, they are just doing thier job.

if they are looking for something in particular, and this is the second or third report from a producer who has been inspected, that they are interested in specific titles. that means they know something - not just suspect something - the government has the resources to know everything they want to know about any citizen. These inspections are about record keeping - or should be. This is not supposed to be an investigation into hiring and filming underage girls - but it sounds like that is part of what is going on here.

the government has made it clear they are waging a war against porn - the best thing that could happen for the government would be able to produce a bunch of underage girls who fell through the cracks. it would help them make the case that the porn industry harms minors - even if it really isn't our fault.

[Mutt]

2257 is a friggin joke - the porn industry for all the scumbags and idiots in it at least knows that shooting anybody under 18 is bad and nobody does it.

there is no reason for 2257 - there is NO KIDDY PORN produced by our industry -
they aren't protecting any child from anybody in our industry through 2257 because this industry does not and has no interest in producing kiddy porn. The kiddy porn producers exist in a network all over the world - and you won't find one of them on GFY or at Internext.

this isn't about protecting kids - it's an attempt to get rid of the porn industry in another way other than by the obscenity laws - because the government loses every obscenity case it prosecutes.

[Matt 26z]

Originally Posted by Mutt

if they are looking for something in particular, and this is the second or third report from a producer who has been inspected, that they are interested in specific titles. that means they know something - not just suspect something

They are showing up with search warrants so that they can check everywhere and seize property if needed. You'd have to confirm this with someone who is familiar with the process, but I would imagine specific information must be included in the warrant... such as individual titles that are suspect. Could be one explanation.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

They are showing up with search warrants so that they can check everywhere and seize property if needed. You'd have to confirm this with someone who is familiar with the process, but I would imagine specific information must be included in the warrant... such as individual titles that are suspect. Could be one explanation.

THe first and third didnt have warrants but the one in PA did, maybe that was because he worked out of his house and the others were in office buildings.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by gregtx

would like to know what titles those 5-6 were.. and which performers are in question...

He has a lot of Brazilian stuff ( I distributed some of it in Canada ).

Could be those ....

[directfiesta]

Smaller producers:

3vision
Beaver Ranch
Cadro Films
Colossal Ent
Jet Multimedia
Jim Malibu
John Leslie
Jon Dough
Lucky Devil
NJ Films Inc
Taylor Wayne
Temptation
Venom
Venus Girls
Woodburn Prod
Jon Dough Comps (4 hour)
NJ Films Inc Comps (4 hour)
Venus Girls- Features
Venus Girls- Fettish
Dead Men Hanging
Erotic City Entertainment
Rapture

[dcortez]

What they are praying for is to find even a single instance of a producer using underage talent.

Until they do, it seems unlikely that they will push for jailing producers for only clerical errors - that only underlines the absurdity of their laws/approach (ie. no underage found in *any* professional adult industry biz but sending them to the slammer nonetheless).

However, should they find underage talent, my money is on them enforcing the jailtime penalties on even clerical problems with extreme prejudice - then it will be much easier for them to spin everything up into a blur which allows them to use CP, 2257, adult biz all in once sentence (regardless of proportions and perspective).

In a way, keeping a public tally of all these inspections and the fruits of their labour (or lack thereof) might serve the adult industry well in its media relations and defence with respect to 2257.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by dcortez

What they are praying for is to find even a single instance of a producer using underage talent.

Until they do, it seems unlikely that they will push for jailing producers for only clerical errors - that only underlines the absurdity of their laws/approach (ie. no underage found in *any* professional adult industry biz but sending them to the slammer nonetheless).

However, should they find underage talent, my money is on them enforcing the jailtime penalties on even clerical problems with extreme prejudice - then it will be much easier for them to spin everything up into a blur which allows them to use CP, 2257, adult biz all in once sentence (regardless of proportions and perspective).

In a way, keeping a public tally of all these inspections and the fruits of their labour (or lack thereof) might serve the adult industry well in its media relations and defence with respect to 2257.

they just cant throw you in jail it still has to go in front of a judge and jury. If all your models are of age, trying to convince a judge and jury to throw you in jail for 5 yrs for clerical errors will be very hard.

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

Seems like we are seeing one of these every other day now. They said they will continue through December, but I doubt they will stop there.

Even though everyone has "passed" - I would not be suprsied at all if so charges are filed against people they've inspected. They will take the evidence, go to the courts, and then weeks (maybe months) later charges will be filed.

Just because you didn't leave in cuffs means you passed. Inditements may not come for some time.

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by tony404

they just cant throw you in jail it still has to go in front of a judge and jury. If all your models are of age, trying to convince a judge and jury to throw you in jail for 5 yrs for clerical errors will be very hard.

I agree with your logic (and hope you're right), but the nature of litigation and criminal prosecution almost always assures a huge financial drain on the persecuted - regardless of their guilt or innocence. Just going through the hoops of asserting the absurdity may put many guys/gals under.

As for judges, they focus on the letter of the law, and if the law states jail time for clerical, it probably won't be till Supreme Court appeals that the disproportionate penalty can be challenged and used in consideration of judgement (at least, based on all I've seen on TV )

[Hammer]

I'll be interested to see what happens when they start inspecting producers outside of California, since supposedly LA county, CA is the only place where it's technically legal to 'produce' porn.

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

Just because you didn't leave in cuffs means you passed. Inditements may not come for some time.

Exactly. And how technically they choose to prosecute will be a political decision based on their findings.

[Kimmykim]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

They don't have the balls to go after a company that can form a strong defense.

Obviously either your memory or your time in this industry doesn't cover much time, I'll leave my guess to myself.

The US government isn't afraid of anyone in this industry. You look at the people that went on trial, or even to jail, in the last go around over obscenity and mail order, and you'll see that it wasn't the nickel and dime guys they were trying to bust. Of course this was during Meese and you probably weren't out of diapers back then.

In more recent history, the FTC had no issue bringing it to one of the top 5 internet adult companies half a decade ago. And might be bringing it again to companies that are that size if rumors are more than rumors...

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by The Hammer

I'll be interested to see what happens when they start inspecting producers outside of California, since supposedly LA county, CA is the only place where it's technically legal to 'produce' porn.

That will never be enforced.

[OTerror]

Originally Posted by Mutt

2257 is a friggin joke - the porn industry for all the scumbags and idiots in it at least knows that shooting anybody under 18 is bad and nobody does it.

there is no reason for 2257 - there is NO KIDDY PORN produced by our industry -
they aren't protecting any child from anybody in our industry through 2257 because this industry does not and has no interest in producing kiddy porn. The kiddy porn producers exist in a network all over the world - and you won't find one of them on GFY or at Internext.

this isn't about protecting kids - it's an attempt to get rid of the porn industry in another way other than by the obscenity laws - because the government loses every obscenity case it prosecutes.

I agree no one in this industry is filming girls underage..most of the underage stuff comes from overseas..

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

That will never be enforced.

Either you're kidding or you haven't heard of Cash Titans.

[pornguy]

Im not really sure when this happened, but some time after the Lords situation, they started to use the langueage " Knew or should have known " in Laws like these. In otherwords, You knew, or should have know that the person was under age, and that her ID was fake.

Believe it or not, I saw it in a trial in Miami, and they said that. The guy defended himself, but having 6 police officers state that there is NO WAY they he could have know that the license was fake, since it had been issued by DMV. Well the guy got 6 years.

the law is very fucked up.

[Quick Buck]

I disagree that "no one" in this industry is filming underage girls.... there are some sick fucks out there and the line between "almost 18" and "18" can be blurred when some chick is saying she'll take up the ass from godzilla for a grand so she can get some meth.

I do think that the vast vast vast majority of producers are law abiding citizens, but it wouldnt shock me if they bust some producer.... I don't know what a pedophile looks like, not sure I could generalize enough to say that nobody in the porn industry is one.