While I am not for a second arguing anything you have said, I don't think there is concrete proof of Castro's betrayal of Che. If there is, I would be very interested in looking at it. A lot of Cubans do think Castro did this, so I'm not ruling it out, I would just like to see evidence that would lay fact to it. This is one of those things like the Kennedy assassination... I don't think the truth will ever come out. But if you have something, PLEASE let me see it.

Che was a powerful figure. He could have easily pulled the reigns from Castro had he chosen to.

While you will never hear me say that Castro is perfect, he is far from it. I'm sure he has just as much dirt on his hands as any other leader. However, you will hear my say that I respect him for what he did do to topple Batista, fix the educational system and for what he did for healthcare there. He is one stubborn SOB, and I respect him for that as well.

The US embargo was what crippled Cuba, not Fidel.

Yes, it is not fair that they all make the same wage, but that falls into the peoples hands. His ideas were on point, it was the people who were flawed. As with anyone, it all comes down to money. The people want more money, more money, more money. Buy stuff, more money, buy stuff. If you want to be a doctor, be a doctor. Money should not drive you to become one, or stop you from doing what it is you love to do.

The last time I was there the younger Cubans were so fucking obsessed with brand names it was really sad. They want to be westernized so bad, yet they don't have any idea what's coming for them the day Starbucks and McDonalds opens its doors along the Malecon.

For as bad as shape they are in today, I have a feeling that after the history books are written, the people may regret the mess that is to come of them. Let them get what they want, get paid more money and eat Burger King... and then let them pay for their own medical bills and education. Wait until they see how much it will cost to send their children to school or to have heart surgery. Sadly, there will be no un-doing what is inevitable.

Poor yes. But they should enjoy the super-size-me free bubble they are living in while they can because the glory days of Cuba are probably coming to an end within the next 10 years.

And the King Of Thailand. 60 years!!!!!

Funny you mention the top 2 (Oh I feel bad for the Cubans, I got to check it out towns), They are settled and satisfied in what they know to be life, as do the women in Afghanistan being beat daily. It does not make it right. You may have hung out in the farm land where they do better because of their ability to sell off crop, but did not mention rural cities such as Bauta where they are managed by the government to the extent of being taken out of work and school by buses to attend 5 hour speaches in 90 degree weather.

I do not respect your point of view. If half of your thoughts were correct, mothers and fathers would not be risking their lives on home made rafts trying to get out because...THEY ARE LOCKED IN!!!!

I retract the asshole thing, not like me.

what a load of rubbish. If it wasn't for Castro Cube would be like Jamaica or Guatemala or something, not safe to walk around day or night...
Only reason Cuba has suffered is because USA put a trade embarco on them, perhaps undestandable at first but not really understandable for the last 15-20 years. Only reason they've kept it going is because if they didn't it would've proofed communism could work.

And with some of the laws in America and recent happenings they are on their way to be as limeted in relations to freedom as Cuba :2 cents:

I knew that he was speaking from a "Elite Cuban Exile" point of view and I was going to state that after I read the thread...But this statement did it for me.

I hope the new leader will be like Bush....That will do good for democracy, stable economy and freedom of speech

Andre

Nowhere do I say Cuba is perfect. It has it's faults as does any country. For every negative issue someone brings up about Cuba, you could find just as absurd of an issue in the USA.

For every Cuban that made that risk to come to the USA, there are 1000 that did not. I DO NOT think it is right that the Cubas are not allowed to leave, and respect those who have made that risk, as I do anyone who chooses to leave their own country.

We both know Cuba is a mess. Fidel started with the best of intentions, and the USA did cripple them with the embargo, but Cuba is going to be a lot worse off when he is gone. What you will have is a country that will not be able to pay for medical care or education, many will lose their property, the crime rate is going to skyrocket, and the USA and Europe is going to waltz in there and buy it all up.

The Cubans will be still be dirt fucking poor with no ration books, no salary, no education, no medical care and no money. BUT... they will be free to leave. Which is the lesser of two evils?

wow.. and it's amazing how popular & loved he is too.. mad props to him :thumbsup

I've never been to Cuba, but one of my friends has. He said the resort was awesome, but they were specifically told to stay out of certain areas when they went sightseeing, or they would be swarmed by gangs of kids and robbed.

Bah. the kids, yea... they bother you but you tell them to go away. Robbed? Doubt it unless they go looking for trouble or are wearing bling, as many black idiots do in poor countries.

This place has been King happy for the past few months. Everyone wearing yellow shirts, King pics EVERYWHERE... its very cool to see how much love they have for him.

I have seen him TWICE!!! Both times were a fluke and he was driving by in his car. The Thai's say it's good luck to see the King as many have never seen him at all. Don't know of all that but it was cool to catch a glimps of someone worthy of royality.

Damn I wonder why if it's so good there why do so many Cubans end up washing up on our Florida beaches? Hell there are probably more Cubans in Miami than in Cuba.

Not saying Cuba is the best country in the world...But I always wonder why the US government always look at other countries, while they have so many problems themselves...Crime, unemployment etc etc

^^^ exactly, tell everyone else what is wrong with them, while they think everything they do is perect.

Very classy wishing death on someone.

-been brought up with it..

- After hearing over and over how " evil " he is, they do believe it and not even question it ....
And let's not forget, if you are not with us, you are a terrorist ...

Punishing his country is our way of making Fidel pay for his "sin" of kicking out prostitution, gambling, whoring, drugs, and corruption. We had to show our own citizens and the world that any other form of government other than our own cannot work; so the wealthiest and most powerful nation on earth strong-armed a small weak country for 50 consecutive years :2 cents:

.. Shit.. they must be terrorists ... they dance in the street ...

Please start ' Operation Enduring Little Havana " ....

How else do you feed the war machine and keep it happy?

Embargos only hurt citizens, never those in power, as evidenced by North Korea, Iraq, and so forth.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

That happens everyday in Milan, in front of the Duce train station.... ( gypse kids )
Same at the Carlton Hotel in Cannes (gypse amateur photographers )
And I know of quite a few places that you don't go when in NY ....

There is also more Jews in the US than in Israel ....

And more Jamaicans in America/Canada than in Jamaica.

I went to USA and was told not togo to the Bronx...

What are you trying to tell us?

so true. Same can be said for Wars as well

That's why you gotta respect Castro, he actually led an invasion to liberate Cuba, I don't know too many other leaders who have put themselves on the line for their country to the same degree Castro has

Well think about that for a second.. Israel only came into existence this century. Up until then they had no country.. So don't yea think it's likely that they would be spread out around the world? I'm sure there are quite a few of them in Europe as well.

Probably because of all the Cubans that are there..










lol j/k

Please...I am tired of the silly posts. DONE. If he dies I'll come back.

http://www.be.wvu.edu/divecon/econ/t...cuba/whore.jpg

http://www.byrum.org/the.web.walker/...ess/elian1.jpg

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh
Scary place ... I went with a french guide that actually lived there ... At 107th/108th street, you see all the yellow cabs turn left or right to head back to Manhattan ...
Drug pushers own each their corner street ...

Cubans are way better off there ...( j/k also ...)

Fidel is a murderer, but his brother Raul may be worst.

I think I banged that girl.

lotsa support for dictator's in this thread. it italy, mussolini made the trains run on time.

i don't support dictators in any shape or form, be they Castro or the aforementioned Fulgencio Batista. lets hope cuba becomes a representative democracy after this.

I got an idea... why dont those of you who are attending Internext next week drive down to Little Habana and ask the cubans there what they think?

Good idea ... it worked well with the Iraqis in the US ... gave a good pulse of the " walk of freedom " to come ...

Note: everytime there is a regime change in a country ( even thru elections ) , the ones that were advantaged are not to happy ...

Those Cubans are todayès equivalent of the Baath party in Iraq .... not happy they lost their grip.

I don't think anybody necessarily supports dictatorship. It's more about seperating fact from fiction, or reality from propaganda. One shouldn't have to make up stuff about somebody to dislike them. I also believe it's very possible to have a benevolent dictatorship, although I would still never prefer that form of government. For me, this is an exercise in revealing just how insidious politics can be. We're not always the 'good guys' so to speak, as much as I'd love for it to be true.

I respect the fact that you spent time among us in Cuba and learned the culture and I'm sure you left with a sense of pride and respect in how we live our lives, even in complete poverty.
If anyone is to blame for Cuba's current economic state and Political issues it's the Cuban exiles that left. In 1959 - 1967 my family began supporting Castro then opposed him in the later years.
Castro was earning people's support because he had promised a free Cuba once again, unoppressed. He was charismatic and Strong willed.
He defeated Batista's weak Military and marched into Havana.
Castro came to the United states to work on changing the terms of the Platt Amendment, (look it up) and had not set up an appointment to see the president and was refused entrance to the whitehouse by his secretary. Castro waited hours for an opportunity to meet with Eisenhower and felt insulted by his refusal to meet with him.
Castro returned to Cuba, struck a better deal with Russia than he had had with the US And the rest is history.

When my family members began speaking out against him, going to visit him in his chambers in Havana, he began to arrest them. My grandfather was arrested 12 times in one year for walking over to his brother's house on suspicion of corraborating against the regime (My grandfather was the last person to finally give up hope for castro in 63, so he was arrested for no reason)

4 of my mother's uncles were shot on television.
My mother's family lived underground for 2 years in fear of religious persecution. Castro had killed my mother's teacher and principe a week earlier for refusing to pray to him instead of God.

My family owned the largest milk pasteurizing plant and had thousands of head of cattle. WE owned 40 large plots and our largest plot consisted of 6,870 acres. 500 acres was leant to Castro to train his troops prior to his battle with Batista the 3rd time. After castro gained power and turned communist he took our land and money from us.
The wealthy left cuba with nothing to escape death and prison. If they had stayed I beleive they would have prevailed and defeated Castro.

Castro rullezzz :thumbsup

true...this is a classic example of only the good die young..

Mr. Romance

Some of the best moment of my life have been spent in Cuba. Truly wonderful and magical moments that could not have happened anywhere else on earth. Regardless of who leads the country or who is right or wrong, the people I have had the pleasure of sharing time with there have left a positive and long lasting impression on me. Beautiful people all.


:Oh crap I'm sorry to hear that. I have never heard about him killing anyone because they did not worship him. That is seriously fucked up.

That's why I like to give people facts before I judge them. A lot of people don't realize what an animal he was. I want to emphasize WAS, he became a lot more endearing around 75. Che was worse by many's accounts. My grandfather didn't fear anyone and he would shiver when he'd mention Che.

I do not fault anyone for not knowing the details that lead to the wealthy and educated leaving Cuba. But ask any exile about what happened and I'm sure they all had family arrested or shot.
The first waves to flea cuba were doctors, attorneys and businessmen. THey set up their businesses here in the US mainly In Miami and flurished just as they had in Cuba, the crazy and impressive part is that they did it without a support structure and with nothing to their names.