How to prove Copyrights? - GoFuckYourself.com

Houdini · 06-10-2002, 05:25 PM

I have a mainstream site that has a major portion of text being copied by a major mainstream site word for word. I can prove this only from the web archive, my site was there in Nov 2001, their site in Jan 2002. I emailed them a very professional letter asking them to remove my text. They have emailed me back saying they their web designer did it and they will remove the text provided I can provide them with proof that my text is the original. They said they are sending this to their attorney and if I cannot provide them proof with it, they will be sending me their attorney bill. If they want to get that way that's not a problem. My girlfriend is a lawyer for a huge firm, but she isn't here right now and doesn't deal with copyrights. I want to deal with this now. Does anyone have experience with this type of thing? I have a copyright mark on it and everything, the web archive is there too. What else do I need to prove this?

Jamie · 06-10-2002, 05:30 PM

If you want a serious Copyright lawyer on your side contact Mitch.

Mitchell Kamarck
Rosenfeld, Meyer & Susman, LLP
9601 Wilshire Boulevard
Beverly Hills, CA 90210
Tel: (310) 246 3279
Email: [email protected]

It'll cost ya, but if things get ugly he's your guy.

Tex Willer · 06-10-2002, 06:47 PM

Here?s an idea. The following is very simple, perhaps it might work. You burn the files on a CD and mail the CD to yourself. When you receive the envelope, don?t open it, just put it aside. If needed, the date on the envelope would prove what you need to prove.

That?s very old trick (or ?trick?) I red in Sinclair User (British 1980s magazine for Zx81/Spectrum users). Back than, programmers were mailing the tapes with the games they coded to the software companies. This was an inexpensive method to protect themselves of rip-off companies.

I guess closed envelope with your CD is stronger proof than a page at archive.org.

Houdini · 06-10-2002, 07:15 PM

Thanks for the info guys. I actually just filed for an offical copyright just to make it 100% legal in court. $80 well spent in my opinion. The site in question has no copyright notice on it and they've admitted in their email that they do not have one. I've only given them the archive.org page for now (since obviously I don't have "official" documentation until I get it from the US copyright office) and showed them my site and compared it to their whois info. My site was online and operating three months before they even registered theirs. If they try to send me an attorney's fee because the webarchive isn't enough proof, that's when I'll go after them hard for copyright infringment and at that point I'll have my copyright documentation.

pornopete, I don't want to say the name of the company in case something does happen. They're a multimillion dollar company though. They own a bunch of sites and according to them "This site is very insignificant to us."

Thanks again.

Scootermuze · 06-10-2002, 07:49 PM

You don't need to register your site for copyright in order for it to be copyrighted... the archive.org has the date that you had the site. That's all the proof you need.. They can't argue with the dates.
Don't worry about their attorney fees.. that was their choice not yours.. You're not obligated to them for anything.
Doesn't matter how much money they make.. if they bought a stolen site from a designer then they need to deal with the designer as do you. Find out who sold it to them and go from there.
In the mean time, demand again that they remove the site as you have given them proof of when you had your site. If they don't do it, then you'll probably need to get a lawyer to haggle with their lawyer.. or try going to their host and inform them of the situation..

hyper · 06-10-2002, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Houdini
They own a bunch of sites and according to them "This site is very insignificant to us."

Then tell them they shouldnt have any problem taking it down

Scootermuze · 06-10-2002, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tex Willer
Here?s an idea. The following is very simple, perhaps it might work. You burn the files on a CD and mail the CD to yourself. When you receive the envelope, don?t open it, just put it aside. If needed, the date on the envelope would prove what you need to prove.

That?s very old trick (or ?trick?) ........

That's known as a commmon law copyright

Forkbeard · 06-10-2002, 08:08 PM

Find out who hosts them and send the host a DCMA notice. You don't have to prove your copyright, you just have to swear it's yours. Then the host pretty mucn needs to either (1) take your shit down or (2) get the jerks you are dealing with to swear your shit is theirs and to promise to pay the host if you sue the host for not taking your shit down.

A DCMA notice is basically a form letter -- typing "DCMA notice and take down" into Google will probably get you a free model to work from.

Good luck!

AdultWire · 06-10-2002, 08:54 PM

Firstly, they can't bill you for shit since they haven't rendered any services to you, so tell them to stick that in their ass.

Secondly, they need to remember that they are the accused. Tell them that if they refuse to remove the text that you know full well they cannot produce a license for, that you will provide your proof for them next time you see them, in a court of law.

Confidence shakes things up a lot with people who are so obviously guilty.

Gemini · 06-10-2002, 09:12 PM

Burning a CD now...today.... will reflect this date on all the files... get the picture, hint hint?

Dreamman010 · 06-10-2002, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gemini
Burning a CD now...today.... will reflect this date on all the files... get the picture, hint hint?

Change your mind

Gemini · 06-10-2002, 09:27 PM

Well du-UHHH Dreamman010 lol ... When a newbie has this sort of problem ya give them the hint and let them figure it out... not hand them the exact answer or they won't remember it. Get the picture. Now ya ruint it! Grrr lol

Gemini · 06-10-2002, 09:28 PM

I WOULD strongly suggest you edit that out too Dremaman... not many thieves are that smart and you just handed them a key to winning a fight in court. Sheesh

Dreamman010 · 06-10-2002, 09:54 PM

Haha alright Gemini

I get what you're saying

Houdini · 06-10-2002, 10:04 PM

The only reason that I did get my site copyrighted, because the other company has pointed out that other sites are using the same text as well. Now, there's a few sites I have to go after and I just want to make sure my ass is covered 100%. I don't even know if archive.org would stand up in court because anything electronic like that can easily be modified.

I couldn't find what host they're on. All the whois gave me was a nameserver that didn't come up. I'm sure they own it nevertheless.

In my original email I gave them 48 hours to take down the copied text. On Wednesday if I don't see anything changed, I'll send them a final email with a 12 hour deadline. At that point if nothing has changed I'll hand the case over to an attorney and let them take care of the rest.

Thanks for the input everyone.

Gemini · 06-10-2002, 10:05 PM

Thanks Dreamman.

When you have had to go to the school of hard knocks to learn all of this first hand, then 1) never hand it out easily, 2) always withold the help that idiots might be able to use against you... at least as far as in the publics eyes. Thats when you go private.

06-10-2002, 05:25 PM	#1
Houdini Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,651	How to prove Copyrights? I have a mainstream site that has a major portion of text being copied by a major mainstream site word for word. I can prove this only from the web archive, my site was there in Nov 2001, their site in Jan 2002. I emailed them a very professional letter asking them to remove my text. They have emailed me back saying they their web designer did it and they will remove the text provided I can provide them with proof that my text is the original. They said they are sending this to their attorney and if I cannot provide them proof with it, they will be sending me their attorney bill. If they want to get that way that's not a problem. My girlfriend is a lawyer for a huge firm, but she isn't here right now and doesn't deal with copyrights. I want to deal with this now. Does anyone have experience with this type of thing? I have a copyright mark on it and everything, the web archive is there too. What else do I need to prove this?

06-10-2002, 07:49 PM	#5
Scootermuze Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,513	You don't need to register your site for copyright in order for it to be copyrighted... the archive.org has the date that you had the site. That's all the proof you need.. They can't argue with the dates. Don't worry about their attorney fees.. that was their choice not yours.. You're not obligated to them for anything. Doesn't matter how much money they make.. if they bought a stolen site from a designer then they need to deal with the designer as do you. Find out who sold it to them and go from there. In the mean time, demand again that they remove the site as you have given them proof of when you had your site. If they don't do it, then you'll probably need to get a lawyer to haggle with their lawyer.. or try going to their host and inform them of the situation.. Last edited by Scootermuze; 06-10-2002 at 07:58 PM..

06-10-2002, 08:08 PM	#8
Forkbeard Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: I Roam Around Posts: 2,236	Find out who hosts them and send the host a DCMA notice. You don't have to prove your copyright, you just have to swear it's yours. Then the host pretty mucn needs to either (1) take your shit down or (2) get the jerks you are dealing with to swear your shit is theirs and to promise to pay the host if you sue the host for not taking your shit down. A DCMA notice is basically a form letter -- typing "DCMA notice and take down" into Google will probably get you a free model to work from. Good luck! Last edited by Forkbeard; 06-10-2002 at 08:13 PM..

06-10-2002, 08:54 PM	#9
AdultWire Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 962	Firstly, they can't bill you for shit since they haven't rendered any services to you, so tell them to stick that in their ass. Secondly, they need to remember that they are the accused. Tell them that if they refuse to remove the text that you know full well they cannot produce a license for, that you will provide your proof for them next time you see them, in a court of law. Confidence shakes things up a lot with people who are so obviously guilty. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

06-10-2002, 09:54 PM	#14
Dreamman010 Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 1,081	Haha alright Gemini I get what you're saying __________________ <a href="http://www2.famoushost.com/home.php" target="_blank"><b><FONT COLOR="FFFF00">www.FamousHost.com</font></b></a><br>Free Hosting With No Headers, Real FTP, <u>Get listed on the biggest TGP's with us!</u>

06-10-2002, 05:30 PM	#2
Jamie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: CelebPay.com Posts: 2,517	If you want a serious Copyright lawyer on your side contact Mitch. Mitchell Kamarck Rosenfeld, Meyer & Susman, LLP 9601 Wilshire Boulevard Beverly Hills, CA 90210 Tel: (310) 246 3279 Email: [email protected] It'll cost ya, but if things get ugly he's your guy.

06-10-2002, 06:47 PM	#3
Tex Willer Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,105	Here?s an idea. The following is very simple, perhaps it might work. You burn the files on a CD and mail the CD to yourself. When you receive the envelope, don?t open it, just put it aside. If needed, the date on the envelope would prove what you need to prove. That?s very old trick (or ?trick?) I red in Sinclair User (British 1980s magazine for Zx81/Spectrum users). Back than, programmers were mailing the tapes with the games they coded to the software companies. This was an inexpensive method to protect themselves of rip-off companies. I guess closed envelope with your CD is stronger proof than a page at archive.org.

06-10-2002, 07:15 PM	#4
Houdini Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,651	Thanks for the info guys. I actually just filed for an offical copyright just to make it 100% legal in court. $80 well spent in my opinion. The site in question has no copyright notice on it and they've admitted in their email that they do not have one. I've only given them the archive.org page for now (since obviously I don't have "official" documentation until I get it from the US copyright office) and showed them my site and compared it to their whois info. My site was online and operating three months before they even registered theirs. If they try to send me an attorney's fee because the webarchive isn't enough proof, that's when I'll go after them hard for copyright infringment and at that point I'll have my copyright documentation. pornopete, I don't want to say the name of the company in case something does happen. They're a multimillion dollar company though. They own a bunch of sites and according to them "This site is very insignificant to us." Thanks again.

06-10-2002, 09:12 PM	#10
Gemini Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: o-HI-o Posts: 7,183	Burning a CD now...today.... will reflect this date on all the files... get the picture, hint hint?

06-10-2002, 09:27 PM	#12
Gemini Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: o-HI-o Posts: 7,183	Well du-UHHH Dreamman010 lol ... When a newbie has this sort of problem ya give them the hint and let them figure it out... not hand them the exact answer or they won't remember it. Get the picture. Now ya ruint it! Grrr lol

06-10-2002, 09:28 PM	#13
Gemini Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: o-HI-o Posts: 7,183	I WOULD strongly suggest you edit that out too Dremaman... not many thieves are that smart and you just handed them a key to winning a fight in court. Sheesh

06-10-2002, 10:04 PM	#15
Houdini Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,651	The only reason that I did get my site copyrighted, because the other company has pointed out that other sites are using the same text as well. Now, there's a few sites I have to go after and I just want to make sure my ass is covered 100%. I don't even know if archive.org would stand up in court because anything electronic like that can easily be modified. I couldn't find what host they're on. All the whois gave me was a nameserver that didn't come up. I'm sure they own it nevertheless. In my original email I gave them 48 hours to take down the copied text. On Wednesday if I don't see anything changed, I'll send them a final email with a 12 hour deadline. At that point if nothing has changed I'll hand the case over to an attorney and let them take care of the rest. Thanks for the input everyone.

06-10-2002, 10:05 PM	#16
Gemini Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: o-HI-o Posts: 7,183	Thanks Dreamman. When you have had to go to the school of hard knocks to learn all of this first hand, then 1) never hand it out easily, 2) always withold the help that idiots might be able to use against you... at least as far as in the publics eyes. Thats when you go private.