Abuse of Power

[2HousePlague]

I was reading an op-ed piece recently about efforts to impose child labor restrictions in various countries of the Third World, based on modern US sentiments on the subject. It set me thinking a bit. Of course abusive treatment of children in any form must be rejected through both social norms and The Law. But I can't help but see a certain hypocrisy in this, since child labor was an important part of America's own economic history. Much like slavery before it.

It's one thing for America to espouse the high ideals we've come to by way of our own rewarding struggles with some of the most difficult questions faced by Nations. It's another thing, though, to go war (and expect our Allies to join us in war) for what are essentially differences of opinion.

If a 12-year old is getting up to go to work because his family needs him to and he really wants to do it, why should we drop a missile on his country? Early experiences with hardwork and difficulty are often connected to significant achievements later in life. When you look into the personal histories of world leaders from yesteryear, you will find that many were very poor, that they stepped up and found courage in themselves to go out into the world well before most people do, to bring home the bacon for their families.

I would even go as far as to say that America could not be where it is today but for the efforts of its laboring children and its slaves. For us now to say to anyone "You can't do as we did..." is both hypocritical and, in my opinion, bourne out of a feeling of National insecurity and a desire to suppress POWER where we observe it appearing elsewhere in the world. Sorry, for the Sunday rant, but I am growing a little impatient with some money owed to me by a former boss who employed me when I was child.

2hp

[betabomb]

I think I'm pretty young and it feels like I've been working my whole life --

[baddog]

Guess I haven't been watching the news enough. What country do we want to go to war with because of child labor laws?

[3M TA3]

if it wasn't for child labor, i wouldn't have any programmers.....

[MaddCaz]

abusive power!!!

[ETCKon]

its funny how the people at the top of the food pyramid eats off from the people of the bottom....shit is really fucked up....

[jayeff]

I don't think you have to worry too much about this. Although most trade agreements include rhetoric about labor laws, as with Mexico, it usually takes public heat and separate agreements to get anything done. Then the steps are small and slow coming. Ironically, since this board enjoys Arab bashing so much, Middle East countries have been among the best about reforming their laws without external pressure.

Companies are more likely to impose conditions, but then these are localised and far fewer companies work this way than you might imagine from the public claims. Don't forget that cheaper labor costs are only part of the third-world appeal: lest restrictive labor and environmental laws play a major role.

[Dirty Dane]

In many of the most poor countries the children and their parents have no choice. Or iow... they can choose between working at a factory or go into crime, prostitution, look for food in the garbage and so on. Some can't even work at their parents small farms because they have no money to feed them , medicine, education, so the only way to survive is to send them away to work.
If you place sanctions on such countries, or personal by not buying the products, you hurt the kids. Its hard to accept this but its the reality.

[polish_aristocrat]

PA

[Webby]

Originally Posted by 2HousePlague

Abuse of Power

Sorry, for the Sunday rant, but I am growing a little impatient with some money owed to me by a former boss who employed me when I was child.

There are two sets of laws or conditions - one for "us" and one from "them".

For clarification, if you are not "us", you automatically become "them".

The US has signed but still never ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child. It remains the only country in the western world and, in fact, the whole world with the exception of Somalia, who has not ratified this treaty.

Oddly, even for treaties which have been signed and ratified and become part of Federal Law, barriers are put in place to prohibit US citizens from excercising their rights under these treaties.

There is also a strange and, possibly arrogant attitude which oozes when scrutiny is applied to the US's own human rights record. While countries like Indonesia, UK, Peru, Rwanda, Germany, Colombia blah were open at the highest level with inspections, - the US attitude is of being defensive and along the lines of "Are you confusing us with some other country?" and "Is this an intentional insult to the US and our nation's legal system?" etc. Basically there is a problem with reality.

[KRL]

Most of the western world doesn't realize the scope of the horrid child labor situation on the other side of the world.

[reynold]

Originally Posted by KRL

Most of the western world doesn't realize the scope of the horrid child labor situation on the other side of the world.

Exactly..

In an estimated number of 250 million economically active children, More than half of them are from Asia, 1/3 from Africa and less than 10 percent are from Latin America. Scattered primarily on agriculture, trading, construction, and domestic services, these children who should be enjoying the right to go to school and play, work in order to live...

[minusonebit]

We need to put child labor back into place in the US.

Before you all flame me... read the whole post.

Today's US kids have no respect for money and they have no work ethic. Most of the kids we turn out today grow up to be ignorant people who are always looking for shortcuts through everything they do from driving to working to keeping house to retirement. From cradle to grave, they are looking for every possible shortcut, every possible handout and every possible way to get money without actually working.

As kids, they have 100s and sometimes even 1000s of plastic toys with which to play with. They did nothing to earn them and when they break they belive they are entitled to have a new one provided by thier parents. And if you dont replace them, you're in for it. And some professionals and busy-body child welfare agencies look at it this way too.

I remember a case where child welfare was trying to take kids out of a home because the parents had refused to let them watch TV, eat junk food or "socialize" (read: become a delinquient in the streets). They made the kids read constantly or listen to the radio, only eat decent foood and they were allowed to associate only with people approved of by thier parents.

The fact of the matter is kids dont learn the lessons of earning a dollar anymore. Child labor forced them to learn those lessons whether they wanted to or not. If you give a kid a choice, they'll always take the lazy way out.

[jayeff]

Originally Posted by minusonebit

Today's US kids have no respect...

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

There is some disagreement whether that was written by Plato or Socrates. Either way it was written over two thousand years ago and proves that some things never change and that maybe, assuming there is a problem at all, the solution isn't quite as simple as we might like to believe...

[E$_manager]

In poor countries there is no such talk with kids like - "you go and work" Kids know from their born that they are to work - help their parents.
In our countries you have to ask your daughter to help you on the kitchen.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by jayeff

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

There is some disagreement whether that was written by Plato or Socrates. Either way it was written over two thousand years ago and proves that some things never change and that maybe, assuming there is a problem at all, the solution isn't quite as simple as we might like to believe...

Classic.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by 2HousePlague

I was reading an op-ed piece recently about efforts to impose child labor restrictions in various countries of the Third World, based on modern US sentiments on the subject. It set me thinking a bit. Of course abusive treatment of children in any form must be rejected through both social norms and The Law. But I can't help but see a certain hypocrisy in this, since child labor was an important part of America's own economic history. Much like slavery before it.

It's one thing for America to espouse the high ideals we've come to by way of our own rewarding struggles with some of the most difficult questions faced by Nations. It's another thing, though, to go war (and expect our Allies to join us in war) for what are essentially differences of opinion.

If a 12-year old is getting up to go to work because his family needs him to and he really wants to do it, why should we drop a missile on his country? Early experiences with hardwork and difficulty are often connected to significant achievements later in life. When you look into the personal histories of world leaders from yesteryear, you will find that many were very poor, that they stepped up and found courage in themselves to go out into the world well before most people do, to bring home the bacon for their families.

I would even go as far as to say that America could not be where it is today but for the efforts of its laboring children and its slaves. For us now to say to anyone "You can't do as we did..." is both hypocritical and, in my opinion, bourne out of a feeling of National insecurity and a desire to suppress POWER where we observe it appearing elsewhere in the world. Sorry, for the Sunday rant, but I am growing a little impatient with some money owed to me by a former boss who employed me when I was child.

2hp

It makes no sense to say we shouldn't condemn child exploitation just because we had it at some point in our own history.

We also didn't go to war over a "difference of opinion." We went to war as a last resort, after 11 years of UN failures, to remove a brutal dictator who murdered his own people and invaded his neighbors.

What a ridiculous rant.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Would be nice to see improved wages paid by the multinational corporations that put profit before people.

Very thought provoking as usual, Jack.

ADG Webmaster

[TheJimmy]

Originally Posted by KRL

Most of the western world doesn't realize the scope of the horrid child labor situation on the other side of the world.

I wish I could say that was only propoganda.

:/

[2HousePlague]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

It makes no sense to say we shouldn't condemn child exploitation just because we had it at some point in our own history.

We also didn't go to war over a "difference of opinion." We went to war as a last resort, after 11 years of UN failures, to remove a brutal dictator who murdered his own people and invaded his neighbors.

What a ridiculous rant.

I'm not saying let's not condemn it.

All I am wanting to do is call attention to the practice of manipulating public sentiment on the grounds of "human rights violations", when the argument to go to war is morally insufficient, unsubstantiated by any facts and illegal. I had no specific example in mind from history when I wrote this, but it should not be hard for anyone to find many occasions of human rights violations appeals coinciding with the pursuit of a war mandate. I'll remind everyone that I am not among the conspiracy theorists on this board. I am however pretty damned perceptive when it comes to the media.

2hp

[Webby]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

It makes no sense to say we shouldn't condemn child exploitation just because we had it at some point in our own history.

Are you speaking for the only country who has never ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child??

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

We also didn't go to war over a "difference of opinion." We went to war as a last resort, after 11 years of UN failures, to remove a brutal dictator who murdered his own people and invaded his neighbors.

The US went to war on false pretences of WMD and delivered a dialog of lies and deceit to the UN representing the international community - an organization the US is part of - as the excuse for this action.

No.. you never did go to war to "remove a brutal dicator" - but the US did cooperate fully in encouraging Saddam to engage in a war with Iran and there is also the matter of a green light to invade Kuwait - an issue the US Ambassador in that country has not forgotten.

[2HousePlague]

Originally Posted by TheJimmy

I wish I could say that was only propoganda.

:/

Di - fuckin' - tto

2hp

[Kimo]

looks like i was beaten

[Supz]

Hey, its cheap gallery submission!

[DEA - banned for life]

way too much to read...