Government Intervention - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

The Machine · 06-05-2002, 12:49 AM

my first 100th post - and on such a good thread - i may as well retire now...lol

Cheers,
The Machine

titmowse · 06-05-2002, 12:52 AM

Mr Fiction. I see from your profile you run a story site. So I understand your interest in protected speech might differ a bit from those who deal in pictures. Is erotica considered porn? Well, you might find that you don't see too many straight-out porn novels in the library. You and I both know the difference between a porn story and erotica. The "government" knows it too.

You should consider the difference between erotica which is protected speech and porn which is adult entertainment. If your stories have no artistic merit and are purely porn, then why on earth are you giving away one of the hardest to produce forms of adult content?

Mr.Fiction · 06-05-2002, 12:54 AM

Again, you can charge for porn to your heart's content. Have fun. No one is going to stop you. I would encourage you, smile, and give you a big thumbs up to boot.

However, if you both want to make everyone else start charging for access to "offensive material", then we have a problem. You don't have a right to make other people charge for certain content if they don't want to charge.

If an artist or author wants to give away offensive material to adults, they have that right under the constitution. If you don't like it, then all the better. That's why we're in America. You don't have to like what I do and I can love everything you do. Hurray.

Again, the motivation of the person wanting to give away offensive material is totally irrelevant. The fact that he wants to give it away to adults is enough. It's legal, it's constitutional, it might even be fun and exciting.

I can $ee the motivation for wanting to make everyone pay for free speech, but once again, to me at least, freedom is more important than money. I don't expect everyone to agree.

Live free or...PAY UP!

The Machine · 06-05-2002, 12:56 AM

wait a minute - you are telling me content providers produce adult content because they want to share their artistic endeavors - and they want to give it away for free? i hope you are joking lol

Mr.Fiction · 06-05-2002, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by titmowse
Mr Fiction. I see from your profile you run a story site. So I understand your interest in protected speech might differ a bit from those who deal in pictures. Is erotica considered porn? Well, you might find that you don't see to many straight-out porn novels in the library. You and I both know the difference between a porn story and erotica. The "governement" knows it too.

You should consider the difference between erotica which is protected speech and porn which is adult entertainment. If your stories have no artistic content and are purely porn, then why on earth are you giving away one of the hardest to produce forms of adult content?

We don't give anything away, really. We provide a forum for authors to share their art. It's sort of a free speech community kind of vibe.

The only kind of speech, though, that isn't protected is obscene material. Porn is protected, unless it is found to be obscene. On a huge website, it is my belief that the website as a whole would have to be looked at, not a specific story or picture. It's like a movie, they have to look at the whole movie, not just one scene. What is the context of the content?

We're always ready for a brawl if they come after us. More publicity = more traffic = more money, right?

titmowse · 06-05-2002, 01:08 AM

well, then you have a page of a different color don't you?

ps: as a writer, i have to say that we adult writers are highly undervalued and i'm sick of seeing good authors trade their rare skills for links and traffic. this shit ain't easy muthafuckas! My wonderful boss pays me. Does yours?

spanky · 06-05-2002, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

1. In theory, I would have very little problem with an AVS system that didn't prohibit adults from viewing content they want to view. I don't think a credit card system is the right solution. [...]

2. Now we come to the complex issue. What sites would be behind an AVS system? This is not an easy one to answer. [...]

Very well put. I'd say that we are basically on the same page (same chapter anyway). I'd only add that I think existing norms for published media could be extended to the 'web' publishing and as such internet content would be subject to the same definitions of what is and is not acceptable for minors. An ever shifting set of rules made to represent the norms of society balanced by court review. Not an easy line to walk. Mistakes have been made (and will be again).

I don't really see how the question of free porn has anything to do with verifying age. The cost of doing business and your business model should establish the price of your product. I only dabble in pornography, by day I am a software developer for a company providing open source solutions to business and by night I have a small partnership developing web applications (non open source). Both business models work though at first glance one model appears to be giving software away for free and the other appears to be charging for it. Both models generate revenue.

quiet should start more threads, this one was a great read ;-)

cheers

The Machine · 06-05-2002, 01:11 AM

yeah, but he's gone to bed now ;)

raymo · 06-05-2002, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by titmowse
then explain to me how car rental agencies and hotels seem to get away with credit card requirements? i'm also finding your whole credit card argument to be more specious reasoning. there are many other non cc payment methods available to the avarage person looking for sexual entertainment on the Internet.

Your argument is flawed. There is no comparison between either rental agencies or the adult industry to their adult counterparts. When a hotel requires guests have credit cards, they are doing so voluntarily - the government isn't intervening whatsoever. You're comparing voluntary business practice to industry wide regulation.

Love ya work.

TheFLY · 06-05-2002, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Machine
wait a minute - you are telling me content providers produce adult content because they want to share their artistic endeavors - and they want to give it away for free? i hope you are joking lol

You haven't been to an art museum lately...

mike503 · 06-05-2002, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFLY
The government telling us what an AVS is -- would be like the government deciding on the next HTML specification or like telling Intel not to make its chips faster -- technology changes too fast -- for all we know HTTP could become obsolete next year.

heh just like telling microsoft how they cannot put an IE icon on the desktop...

oh wait, they DID try to push that law!

The Machine · 06-05-2002, 01:25 AM

yes but then porn isn't really comparable to a hotel or rental agency, is it? and we are talking about something that will be good for the business, aren't we?

Mr.Fiction · 06-05-2002, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by titmowse
well, then you have a page of a different color don't you?

ps: as a writer, i have to say that we adult writers are highly undervalued and i'm sick of seeing good authors trade their rare skills for links and traffic. this shit ain't easy muthafuckas! My wonderful boss pays me. Does yours?

If I had a dollar for every webmaster who came to me and told me they need 200 exclusive niche stories and they want to pay no more than $200, I'd be as rich as quiet.

People don't understand that one story does not equal one picture. You can take 500 pictures in an hour. How many stories, even shitty ones, can you write in that hour? Zero. Maybe in a couple hours you can bust out something ok, but even that won't be quality.

I understand that webmasters can't pay more than they are going to make back on a story, but what author is going to write exclusive stories for $1 each? None that I've ever met.

By the way titmowse, maybe you will find this funny, maybe not, but I have long had a theory that Stephanie Sarge is one of the most read english language author in the world.

Does anyone even know who "Stephanie Sarge" really is? Her stories are on every free site that has a story. Someone should track her down and interview her.

titmowse · 06-05-2002, 01:31 AM

"Your argument is flawed. There is no comparison between either rental agencies or the adult industry to their adult counterparts. When a hotel requires guests have credit cards, they are doing so voluntarily - the government isn't intervening whatsoever. You're comparing voluntary business practice to industry wide regulation.

Love ya work."

Thank you.

yes there is a link between the rental agencies and hotels and porn, they require responsibility on both the parts of the service and the customer. a hotel or rental agency will not sell their services directly to children because children are not old enough to do so responsibly.

titmowse · 06-05-2002, 01:34 AM

"By the way titmowse, maybe you will find this funny, maybe not, but I have long had a theory that Stephanie Sarge is one of the most read english language author in the world. Does anyone even know who "Stephanie Sarge" really is? Her stories are on every free site that has a story. Someone should track her down and interview her."

heehee. good idea. lol. i may just know somebody. lol

TheFLY · 06-05-2002, 01:35 AM

This whole AVS deal could spawn a new wave of profitable cyber-theft --

fake "prequalified" traffic

*evil laughter*

TheFLY · 06-05-2002, 01:36 AM

Quote:

yes there is a link between the rental agencies and hotels and porn, they require responsibility on both the parts of the service and the customer. a hotel or rental agency will not sell their services directly to children because children are not old enough to do so responsibly. [/B]

But what's the point of even mentioning this -- a hotel or rental company can just ask for a driver's license.

The Machine · 06-05-2002, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFLY

But what's the point of even mentioning this -- a hotel or rental company can just ask for a driver's license.

yeah and if you don't pay what then - there is obviously a good reason why they don't do that. (plus a fake license is always an issue)

and it seems you guys have never tried avs sites - too bad, oh pardon me - very good ;)

The Machine · 06-05-2002, 01:41 AM

ok, time to go to bed - nice talking to you all ;)

later

The Machine

titmowse · 06-05-2002, 01:43 AM

"But what's the point of even mentioning this -- a hotel or rental company can just ask for a driver's license."

it was an analogy to argue the point that there were other businesses who demand credit cards than porn companies. while the hotel one is a bit weak, because you can still pay for your room with cash but can't make a reservation without a cc. the rental one is strong cause you can have a wad of hundred-dollar bills, a driver's liscence, you birth certificate and a letter from your mom, but you still ain't getting no car without a cc.

nocostporn · 06-05-2002, 01:45 AM

I actually liked reading this thread...

Now let's get to the bottomline... If an adult(18+) doesnt own a credit card,WHY would you want his traffic in the first place? You will never make money from him nor the people under 18... An AVS restriction would basically make the freeloaders with cards USE THEM... Freedom of speech has nothing to do with this... You all are saying it's a freedom of speech violation to not let somebody use MY service for free? That's complete bullshit

Yes the amount of traffic would decrease to sites but the over all quality of surfers coming to your site will be looking to buy....

The Machine · 06-05-2002, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nocostporn
I actually liked reading this thread...

Now let's get to the bottomline... If an adult(18+) doesnt own a credit card,WHY would you want his traffic in the first place? You will never make money from him nor the people under 18... An AVS restriction would basically make the freeloaders with cards USE THEM... Freedom of speech has nothing to do with this... You all are saying it's a freedom of speech violation to not let somebody use MY service for free? That's complete bullshit

Yes the amount of traffic would decrease to sites but the over all quality of surfers coming to your site will be looking to buy....

i've been repeating the same thing all night long ;)

oh well, really going to bed this time ;)

nocostporn · 06-05-2002, 01:49 AM

I summed it up for you... Now people shut the fuck up and get to work on your multi-million dollar AVS systems...

TheFLY · 06-05-2002, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nocostporn
I actually liked reading this thread...

Now let's get to the bottomline... If an adult(18+) doesnt own a credit card,WHY would you want his traffic in the first place?

If you don't want it -- send all that traffic to me then -- I can think of dozens of ways to make $$$ with it.

quiet · 06-05-2002, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFLY
This whole AVS deal could spawn a new wave of profitable cyber-theft --

fake "prequalified" traffic

*evil laughter*

you bastard :)

nocostporn · 06-05-2002, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFLY

If you don't want it -- send all that traffic to me then -- I can think of dozens of ways to make $$$ with it.

lol Yeah I know,money can be made NOW with it,dialers,4free programs,click programs... But you have to take in point that 75% of your traffic isn't looking to spend shit and your just sending your shit traffic to the next stiff,I would rather have a 100,000 people with a credit card than 10 million eating my bandwidth and leaching (exagerated numbers of course heh)

I can't say I WANT there to be an AVS restriction but eventually the government will intervine,it's only a matter of time. All I have to say is,whoever can change with the times will be here 15 years from now and I think we can all agree something BIG will hit internet porn in the next 5 years regulating it...BE READY

I'm tired and probably dont know what I'm saying...
I'M OUT!

Fletch XXX · 06-05-2002, 02:22 AM

i think AVS is better for the Industry overall.

TheFLY · 06-05-2002, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Machine

your CC company knows if you are of legal age or not. it's VERY easy to construct a database of CC numbers of people that are 18+ and grant access to porn sites only to those CCs.z

Please explain how sharing CC numbers is legal...?

TheFLY · 06-05-2002, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nocostporn
I would rather have a 100,000 people with a credit card than 10 million eating my bandwidth and leaching (exagerated numbers of course heh)

I'd rather have 10million leeches -- I'm a contrarian by nature.

Cirrus · 06-05-2002, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFLY

I'd rather have 10million leeches -- I'm a contrarian by nature.

why ?

raymo · 06-05-2002, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by titmowse
Thank you.

yes there is a link between the rental agencies and hotels and porn, they require responsibility on both the parts of the service and the customer. a hotel or rental agency will not sell their services directly to children because children are not old enough to do so responsibly.

AH. I interpreted your argument as naming other industries as an example of how it could happen to the adult biz (meaning, government regulation).

quick, when you retire, will you be doing any other forms of work or do you intend to live off your ongoing site earnings?

titmowse · 06-05-2002, 03:05 AM

"quick, when you retire, will you be doing any other forms of work or do you intend to live off your ongoing site earnings?"

i write for a living dear.

quiet · 06-05-2002, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by raymo
AH. I interpreted your argument as naming other industries as an example of how it could happen to the adult biz (meaning, government regulation).

quick, when you retire, will you be doing any other forms of work or do you intend to live off your ongoing site earnings?

titmowse is retiring too?

titmowse · 06-05-2002, 03:18 AM

"titmowse is retiring too?"

you know something i don't?

raymo · 06-05-2002, 03:46 AM

heoaheoa tit, you confused everyone :o)
I was addressing quiet ... the person..

Btw titmowse, any chance of doing some technical articles for cozy? Serverside progging is the name of the game.

[edit: name is quiet, not quick...sorry for the confusion!]

titmowse · 06-05-2002, 04:18 AM

"heoaheoa tit, you confused everyone :o)
I was addressing quick ... the person..

Btw titmowse, any chance of doing some technical articles for cozy? Serverside progging is the name of the game."

oops. my bad.

as for your question, we do have some good articles on programming at the Frog as well as some very nice lessons at Academy.

I don't write too much about programming myself. It's hard enough for me to write as if I know what I'm talking about

Maybe you could write some programming articles for the Cozy Network mr raymo...

raymo · 06-05-2002, 05:05 AM

Hmmm I just realised I wrote quick instead of quiet... my bad :o)

Great, love to. This is getting a little off topic so I'll mail ya in a mo.

titmowse · 06-05-2002, 05:10 AM

me sleepy too. nite all

The Machine · 06-05-2002, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFLY

Please explain how sharing CC numbers is legal...?

who's talking about sharing CC numbers? the CC company has a database with info about their cardholders, right? when you make a purchase online, your info goes from the browser through the pay site sign up page through the processor's gateway to the bank/CC company database for CC verification. well at that last point when they are checking your data anyway, a couple of SQL code lines can be added to the query, checking if the value in the age column is >18. if it is - great, you get the pass to the AVS/pay site. if not - you are denied access even if this is your card and you have sufficient funds on it. no sharing of CC numbers/info will occur...lol

Fletch XXX · 10-09-2002, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet
how many people here think that the government will eventually produce laws that force all porn to be shielded behind AVS type systems?

It has begun.

In as little as 5 months since your inquiry.

View Poll Results: the gov't will eventually force all porn to be put behind adult verification systems
yes they will	25	49.02%
no they won't	26	50.98%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

06-05-2002, 12:49 AM	#101
The Machine Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 859	my first 100th post - and on such a good thread - i may as well retire now...lol Cheers, The Machine Last edited by The Machine; 06-05-2002 at 12:50 AM..

06-05-2002, 12:52 AM	#102
titmowse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: TEXAS Posts: 5,320	Mr Fiction. I see from your profile you run a story site. So I understand your interest in protected speech might differ a bit from those who deal in pictures. Is erotica considered porn? Well, you might find that you don't see too many straight-out porn novels in the library. You and I both know the difference between a porn story and erotica. The "government" knows it too. You should consider the difference between erotica which is protected speech and porn which is adult entertainment. If your stories have no artistic merit and are purely porn, then why on earth are you giving away one of the hardest to produce forms of adult content? __________________ I still love everybody Last edited by titmowse; 06-05-2002 at 01:00 AM..

06-05-2002, 12:56 AM	#104
The Machine Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 859	wait a minute - you are telling me content providers produce adult content because they want to share their artistic endeavors - and they want to give it away for free? i hope you are joking lol Last edited by The Machine; 06-05-2002 at 12:58 AM..

06-05-2002, 01:08 AM	#106
titmowse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: TEXAS Posts: 5,320	well, then you have a page of a different color don't you? ps: as a writer, i have to say that we adult writers are highly undervalued and i'm sick of seeing good authors trade their rare skills for links and traffic. this shit ain't easy muthafuckas! My wonderful boss pays me. Does yours? __________________ I still love everybody Last edited by titmowse; 06-05-2002 at 01:12 AM..

06-05-2002, 12:54 AM	#103
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,484	Again, you can charge for porn to your heart's content. Have fun. No one is going to stop you. I would encourage you, smile, and give you a big thumbs up to boot. However, if you both want to make everyone else start charging for access to "offensive material", then we have a problem. You don't have a right to make other people charge for certain content if they don't want to charge. If an artist or author wants to give away offensive material to adults, they have that right under the constitution. If you don't like it, then all the better. That's why we're in America. You don't have to like what I do and I can love everything you do. Hurray. Again, the motivation of the person wanting to give away offensive material is totally irrelevant. The fact that he wants to give it away to adults is enough. It's legal, it's constitutional, it might even be fun and exciting. I can $ee the motivation for wanting to make everyone pay for free speech, but once again, to me at least, freedom is more important than money. I don't expect everyone to agree. Live free or...PAY UP!

06-05-2002, 01:11 AM	#108
The Machine Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 859	yeah, but he's gone to bed now ;)

06-05-2002, 01:25 AM	#112
The Machine Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 859	yes but then porn isn't really comparable to a hotel or rental agency, is it? and we are talking about something that will be good for the business, aren't we?

06-05-2002, 01:31 AM	#114
titmowse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: TEXAS Posts: 5,320	"Your argument is flawed. There is no comparison between either rental agencies or the adult industry to their adult counterparts. When a hotel requires guests have credit cards, they are doing so voluntarily - the government isn't intervening whatsoever. You're comparing voluntary business practice to industry wide regulation. Love ya work." Thank you. yes there is a link between the rental agencies and hotels and porn, they require responsibility on both the parts of the service and the customer. a hotel or rental agency will not sell their services directly to children because children are not old enough to do so responsibly. __________________ I still love everybody

06-05-2002, 01:34 AM	#115
titmowse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: TEXAS Posts: 5,320	"By the way titmowse, maybe you will find this funny, maybe not, but I have long had a theory that Stephanie Sarge is one of the most read english language author in the world. Does anyone even know who "Stephanie Sarge" really is? Her stories are on every free site that has a story. Someone should track her down and interview her." heehee. good idea. lol. i may just know somebody. lol __________________ I still love everybody

06-05-2002, 01:35 AM	#116
TheFLY So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: http://www.thefly.net/ --- Quit your job and live off steady traffic. Posts: 11,856	This whole AVS deal could spawn a new wave of profitable cyber-theft -- fake "prequalified" traffic evil laughter

06-05-2002, 01:41 AM	#119
The Machine Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 859	ok, time to go to bed - nice talking to you all ;) later The Machine

06-05-2002, 01:43 AM	#120
titmowse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: TEXAS Posts: 5,320	"But what's the point of even mentioning this -- a hotel or rental company can just ask for a driver's license." it was an analogy to argue the point that there were other businesses who demand credit cards than porn companies. while the hotel one is a bit weak, because you can still pay for your room with cash but can't make a reservation without a cc. the rental one is strong cause you can have a wad of hundred-dollar bills, a driver's liscence, you birth certificate and a letter from your mom, but you still ain't getting no car without a cc. __________________ I still love everybody

06-05-2002, 01:45 AM	#121
nocostporn Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,228	I actually liked reading this thread... Now let's get to the bottomline... If an adult(18+) doesnt own a credit card,WHY would you want his traffic in the first place? You will never make money from him nor the people under 18... An AVS restriction would basically make the freeloaders with cards USE THEM... Freedom of speech has nothing to do with this... You all are saying it's a freedom of speech violation to not let somebody use MY service for free? That's complete bullshit Yes the amount of traffic would decrease to sites but the over all quality of surfers coming to your site will be looking to buy.... __________________ CashTheChecks.com -coming soon- "Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters" ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message

06-05-2002, 01:49 AM	#123
nocostporn Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,228	I summed it up for you... Now people shut the fuck up and get to work on your multi-million dollar AVS systems... __________________ CashTheChecks.com -coming soon- "Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters" ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message

06-05-2002, 02:22 AM	#127
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	i think AVS is better for the Industry overall. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

06-05-2002, 03:05 AM	#132
titmowse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: TEXAS Posts: 5,320	"quick, when you retire, will you be doing any other forms of work or do you intend to live off your ongoing site earnings?" i write for a living dear. __________________ I still love everybody

06-05-2002, 03:18 AM	#134
titmowse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: TEXAS Posts: 5,320	"titmowse is retiring too?" you know something i don't? __________________ I still love everybody

06-05-2002, 03:46 AM	#135
raymo Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: AU Posts: 96	heoaheoa tit, you confused everyone :o) I was addressing <b>quiet</b> ... the <i>person</i>.. Btw <b>titmowse</b>, any chance of doing some technical articles for cozy? Serverside progging is the name of the game. [edit: name is quiet, not quick...sorry for the confusion!] __________________ <br>my weeds have sprouted Last edited by raymo; 06-05-2002 at 04:35 AM..

06-05-2002, 04:18 AM	#136
titmowse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: TEXAS Posts: 5,320	"heoaheoa tit, you confused everyone :o) I was addressing quick ... the person.. Btw titmowse, any chance of doing some technical articles for cozy? Serverside progging is the name of the game." oops. my bad. as for your question, we do have some good articles on programming at the Frog as well as some very nice lessons at Academy. I don't write too much about programming myself. It's hard enough for me to write as if I know what I'm talking about Maybe you could write some programming articles for the Cozy Network mr raymo... __________________ I still love everybody Last edited by titmowse; 06-05-2002 at 04:19 AM..

06-05-2002, 05:05 AM	#137
raymo Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: AU Posts: 96	Hmmm I just realised I wrote quick instead of quiet... <i>my</i> bad :o) Great, love to. This is getting a little off topic so I'll mail ya in a mo. __________________ <br>my weeds have sprouted

06-05-2002, 05:10 AM	#138
titmowse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: TEXAS Posts: 5,320	me sleepy too. nite all __________________ I still love everybody