brazilian jiu jitsu - the worst thing that happened to martial arts

[UtahSaints]

spike TV has the UFC show on..
that shit is just gay ..
I bet Emelyanenko would knock the shit out of Gracie if he was around in '93

[sonofsam]

T-Minus 10 minutes before dig420/anthony/warchild etc show up

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by RS-MEDIA

spike TV has the UFC show on..
that shit is just gay ..
I bet Emelyanenko would knock the shit out of Gracie if he was around in '93

You bet wrong.

No one had a clue in 93 how to fight on the ground.

Fedor trains in Combat Sambo, which came about because of BJJ.

Get your history right.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sonofsam

T-Minus 10 minutes before dig420/anthony/warchild etc show up

BASTARD! :P

[Anthony]

BJJ was the best thing to ever happen to Martial Arts.

Before BJJ beat everyone in a NHB format, everyone thought the little 90 year old kung fu man was unbeatable.

Watching Ken Shamrock, the overwhelming favorite to win get choked out was an eye opener, for everyone.

[jade_dragon]

televised events are the worst thing that ever happened to martial arts. Made it a sport, a joke and spectacle. In general televised fighting is a joke, heavyweight fighting is dead to me from a art form stance, it is though very much alive to me on the business side haha.

I never have and never will train in any school that does exhibition though, I don't even believe in belt tests, if a sefu or sensai can not respect that then I don't need to train there.

BTW. often the little 90 year old kung fu man does not appear in events, the "rules" stop a lot of people from being able to fight in these events, true martial arts are for killing, their techniques are for killing, their origins and grand masters are in killing and train other to kill, not for scoring points or getting knock outs......

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by jade_dragon

televised events are the worst thing that ever happened to martial arts. Made it a sport, a joke and spectacle. In general televised fighting is a joke, heavyweight fighting is dead to me from a art form stance, it is though very much alive to me on the business side haha.

I never have and never will train in any school that does exhibition though, I don't even believe in belt tests, if a sefu or sensai can not respect that then I don't need to train there.

That's great.

Now tell me if you dont' do alive training, spar, or active resistance, how do you know your martial art works?

Because you were told it does?

[Adam_M]

Originally Posted by RS-MEDIA

spike TV has the UFC show on..
that shit is just gay ..
I bet Emelyanenko would knock the shit out of Gracie if he was around in '93

The Gracie family and the UFC where around in 93.

It was different back then with less rules and no weight categories just hard out fighting.

[Holly]

Originally Posted by sonofsam

T-Minus 10 minutes before dig420/anthony/warchild etc show up

I don't understand any of that either, but I have learned this from gfy--


*naked women
*expensive, goofy looking cars
*karate shit


These are what the boys care about.

[Fah King]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You bet wrong.

No one had a clue in 93 how to fight on the ground.

Fedor trains in Combat Sambo, which came about because of BJJ.

Get your history right.

You are wrong, first Combat Sambo School was formed 1947 By Kalashnikov in order for the red army troops to have sufficient hand to hand combat tactics. Most of the art was taken from Aikido and Karate.

[jade_dragon]

What did training have to do with performing for a crowd like a trained monkey in a shopping mall or showing how "powerful" I am by breaking cinder blocks and balsa wood?

Training within a school is training within a school, actively fighting against others in your school, your teacher, your instructors, and members from other schools within your school or another school is drastically differant than changing the origins of your art to fit within the confines of winning a sporting event.

Many people have lost sight of what martial arts are and what they are for. Martial or military in nature, meant to kill or seriously hinder the progress of an oppponent, it is also much more than that, it goes into the mental also. My form of kung fu is completely worthless in an event like UFC, the movements are not meant to hit for points or knock out, they are meant to dehabilitate and kill, eye gouges, ear rips, finger breaks, locks, I was never taught how to fight someone who wanted to win a game, I box for that.....

How do I know what I have learned? Avoiding situations, avoiding fights, being able to defend myself when someone is hell bent on fighting, these are the marks of weither it works, not because one person from your school or in the same "art" as you can fight in a tournement hahaha. There are fools down here locally with thousands, YES THOUSANDS of "tournement" wins yet I have seen their instructors and students get waxed by better and lower ranked fighters for many reasons.

I can not blame you or anyone else for their misconceptions on martial arts in their pure or original sense, there is so much fluff and bullshit out there that I am happy that I have come across people who have been able to show me how to see for myself instead of telling me what to look for. The best and true answer to your question, the one with the most relevance to martial arts is "If I have trained well enough then I will not have to find out" it may sound stupid or like a bunch of shit, but it is all anyone can ever hope for.

[dunefield]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You bet wrong.

No one had a clue in 93 how to fight on the ground.

Fedor trains in Combat Sambo, which came about because of BJJ.

Get your history right.

You do realise Sambo deals with ground fighting...


If i remember correctly Rickson Gracie lost a fight to a Sambo guy and then bitched on he didn't know the rules...

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Holly

I don't understand any of that either, but I have learned this from gfy--


*naked women
*expensive, goofy looking cars
*karate shit


These are what the boys care about.

Holly,

I'm hurt that you would pigeon hole me that way.

I also like to talk about walks on the beach, holding hands, and telling that special someone, that "I care".

[UtahSaints]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You bet wrong.

No one had a clue in 93 how to fight on the ground.

Fedor trains in Combat Sambo, which came about because of BJJ.

Get your history right.

STFU. Sambo was born way before he was around. And yes I?m Russian so I know what I?m talking about..

[tony286]

Brazilian ? Do they serve different cuts of meat while fighting lol

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by dunefield

You do realise Sambo deals with ground fighting...


If i remember correctly Rickson Gracie lost a fight to a Sambo guy and then bitched on he didn't know the rules...

Dunefield,

Of all people you would question me about martial arts?

Yes I know Sambo is ground fighting. Sambo is a derived from Judo.

However, Sambo as we know it today, was far different than what it was in 1993.

Loosing a match because your back touches the ground is not ground fighting my friend. That's where the Gracies love to fight.

Combat Sambo as it is now, with it's rulesets are a direct effect from what the early UFC's and grappling matches we have today.

[dunefield]

Originally Posted by jade_dragon

What did training have to do with performing for a crowd like a trained monkey in a shopping mall or showing how "powerful" I am by breaking cinder blocks and balsa wood?

Training within a school is training within a school, actively fighting against others in your school, your teacher, your instructors, and members from other schools within your school or another school is drastically differant than changing the origins of your art to fit within the confines of winning a sporting event.

Many people have lost sight of what martial arts are and what they are for. Martial or military in nature, meant to kill or seriously hinder the progress of an oppponent, it is also much more than that, it goes into the mental also. My form of kung fu is completely worthless in an event like UFC, the movements are not meant to hit for points or knock out, they are meant to dehabilitate and kill, eye gouges, ear rips, finger breaks, locks, I was never taught how to fight someone who wanted to win a game, I box for that.....

How do I know what I have learned? Avoiding situations, avoiding fights, being able to defend myself when someone is hell bent on fighting, these are the marks of weither it works, not because one person from your school or in the same "art" as you can fight in a tournement hahaha. There are fools down here locally with thousands, YES THOUSANDS of "tournement" wins yet I have seen their instructors and students get waxed by better and lower ranked fighters for many reasons.

I can not blame you or anyone else for their misconceptions on martial arts in their pure or original sense, there is so much fluff and bullshit out there that I am happy that I have come across people who have been able to show me how to see for myself instead of telling me what to look for. The best and true answer to your question, the one with the most relevance to martial arts is "If I have trained well enough then I will not have to find out" it may sound stupid or like a bunch of shit, but it is all anyone can ever hope for.

I agree with you... I love people who treat Martial Arts as some tough guy contest...

[UtahSaints]

Originally Posted by Fah King

You are wrong, first Combat Sambo School was formed 1947 By Kalashnikov in order for the red army troops to have sufficient hand to hand combat tactics. Most of the art was taken from Aikido and Karate.

amen... Clueless in ________

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by RS-MEDIA

STFU. Sambo was born way before he was around. And yes I?m Russian so I know what I?m talking about..

I'm about to PWN you.

Sambo official birth is... November 16, 1938.

Brazillian Jiu Jits brith is... 1910

I could care less if you were martian, you are wrong.

[dunefield]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Dunefield,

Of all people you would question me about martial arts?

Yes I know Sambo is ground fighting. Sambo is a derived from Judo.

However, Sambo as we know it today, was far different than what it was in 1993.

Loosing a match because your back touches the ground is not ground fighting my friend. That's where the Gracies love to fight.

Combat Sambo as it is now, with it's rulesets are a direct effect from what the early UFC's and grappling matches we have today.

Of all people? Are you the oracle of Martial Arts?

You do realise Rickson Gracie fought in previous Sambo tournaments... He knew the rules... He couldn't accept his first loss in "400" fights... BAHAHAHAHA 400 my arse...


I'm sorry but if you think BJJ is the god given right of Martial Arts you're just a nuthugger like the rest of them...

[High Plains Drifter]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You bet wrong.

No one had a clue in 93 how to fight on the ground.

Fedor trains in Combat Sambo, which came about because of BJJ.

Get your history right.

"In 1923, Oshchepkov and Spiridinov collaborated with a team of other experts on a grant from the Soviet government to improve the Red Army?s hand-to-hand combat system. Spiridonov had envisioned integrating all of the world?s fighting systems into one comprehensive style that could adapt to any threat. Oshchepkov had observed Kano?s distillation of Tenjin Shin?yo Ryu jujitsu and Kito Ryu jujitsu into judo, and he had developed the insight required to evaluate and integrate combative techniques into a new system."

[maalox]

watching the royce tribute fights--good stuff!

[goldrush]

My problem with BJJ in competitions:

A good striker should be able to keep a BJJ guy from taking him to ground. Failing that, a good striker should be able to break out of a ground position by striking. Why don't they? The rules! By taking pressure point strikes out of the competition - eyes, groin, throat, the stuff that will make anyone let go - the rules make it so that people can't use effective street techniques to get out of holds.

[UtahSaints]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Dunefield,

Of all people you would question me about martial arts?

Yes I know Sambo is ground fighting. Sambo is a derived from Judo.

However, Sambo as we know it today, was far different than what it was in 1993.

Loosing a match because your back touches the ground is not ground fighting my friend. That's where the Gracies love to fight.

Combat Sambo as it is now, with it's rulesets are a direct effect from what the early UFC's and grappling matches we have today.

Porra? You do realize I?m Russian with a ,of knowledge about martial Arts. If you really want to make an ass out of yourself please go ahead and tell me what I have not learned..

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Fah King

You are wrong, first Combat Sambo School was formed 1947 By Kalashnikov in order for the red army troops to have sufficient hand to hand combat tactics. Most of the art was taken from Aikido and Karate.

THe only thing Kalashnikov created in 1947 was the AK47, a fine weapon.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by RS-MEDIA

Porra? You do realize I?m Russian with a ,of knowledge about martial Arts. If you really want to make an ass out of yourself please go ahead and tell me what I have not learned..

Again, I could care less if you shoot fireworks out of your ass.

It doesn't mean you are right.

[Holly]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Holly,

I'm hurt that you would pigeon hole me that way.

I also like to talk about walks on the beach, holding hands, and telling that special someone, that "I care".

Let me guess- you're doing all that while you're choking them into unconsciousness?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by goldrush

My problem with BJJ in competitions:

A good striker should be able to keep a BJJ guy from taking him to ground. Failing that, a good striker should be able to break out of a ground position by striking. Why don't they? The rules! By taking pressure point strikes out of the competition - eyes, groin, throat, the stuff that will make anyone let go - the rules make it so that people can't use effective street techniques to get out of holds.

Goldrush,

All that stuff was allowed in the early UFC's. Only things not allowed, were eye gouges.

It didn't work.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Holly

Let me guess- you're doing all that while you're choking them into unconsciousness?

Ummm, yeah, doesn't everybody?!

[UtahSaints]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I'm about to PWN you.

Sambo official birth is... November 16, 1938.

Brazillian Jiu Jits brith is... 1910

I could care less if you were martian, you are wrong.

Are you retarded or something ???

Whe I say "he" I was not referring to jiu jitsu but Gracie.. Fighting style does not change because of some guy on TV?? UNDERSTAND??? It has been in use in Russian forces for years and for you to think that Sambo was "changed" or even "modified" just because of one guy is insane. Get a fucking clue, boy

[jade_dragon]

ah ok i think you meant the belt tests thing.

short story of it is belt testing came about to rank fighters for matches against each other, the romantic story of it (lots of these in martial arts) is that a man trained in his white gi and his white belt, the grass, dirt, blood and sweat changed his belt many colors until it was black. When he trained harder all the stains caked and fell off, revealing that he had reached a new level and he began again, reinventing himself.

The belt has now become a way for a school to charge your kids and yourself more money. It is a trophy to be shown off, a way for you to guage your progression since the fighter has become one that needs a physical thing to spur him/her to continue working hard OR paying more money, I need neither. My ability to perform movements, eliminate movements that do not work for my abilities and body style and defend or attack are what I as well as my sefu guage my progression on physically, the way I apply everything guages the mental, I need no colored sash for that.

Even with the colored belt, it would mean nothing in a fight, just that I paid money to get tested on what was handed to me, like you said, based on what I was told, your logic was there but not applied wholistically.

Keep in mind that a UFC ring with a ref and gloves and filed finger nails and a list of things you can not do has very little to do with self defense in the streets. I know many of them have backgrounds in real defense, but to train for fighting like that changes the mental triggers for fighting, it is something that I as a person who has other things in life to do will not afford myself the thinning of my reactions for points and fame. I do not fight unless I intend to hurt the other person greatly or kill them using what is available to me, thinking that the other person means to kill me without a second though, this is why I avoid it whenever possible.

[UtahSaints]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Again, I could care less if you shoot fireworks out of your ass.

It doesn't mean you are right.

Please tell me your IQ score exceeds the size of your shoes and will continue posting in here.

[Capt. rold]

bjj is no joke...like any serious streetfight, it's gonna end up on the ground and the person that does better lives.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by RS-MEDIA

Are you retarded or something ???

Whe I say "he" I was not referring to jiu jitsu but Gracie.. Fighting style does not change because of some guy on TV?? UNDERSTAND??? It has been in use in Russian forces for years and for you to think that Sambo was "changed" or even "modified" just because of one guy is insane. Get a fucking clue, boy

RS,

Even BJJ has been modified and changed. For any martial art to be effective, it HAS TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES.

Before 1993, no one had a clue what Sambo/Sombo was.

This is why Traditional Martial Arts do not work, they are caught up practicing how to defend a sword attack.

The best way to explain this is to explain BJJ.

The first rule of BJJ... Position before submission. This was only inherent to BJJ, and nowhere else. Now ALL GROUND FIGHTING styles adhere to that rule.

[Adam_M]

When two flashing swords meet,
there is no place to escape;
Move on coolly, like a lotus flower blooming
in the midst of a roaring fire,
And forcefully pierce the heavens!

[UtahSaints]

Originally Posted by Capt. rold

bjj is no joke...like any serious streetfight, it's gonna end up on the ground and the person that does better lives.

On the street you don?t end up on the ground

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by jade_dragon

ah ok i think you meant the belt tests thing.

short story of it is belt testing came about to rank fighters for matches against each other, the romantic story of it (lots of these in martial arts) is that a man trained in his white gi and his white belt, the grass, dirt, blood and sweat changed his belt many colors until it was black. When he trained harder all the stains caked and fell off, revealing that he had reached a new level and he began again, reinventing himself.

The belt has now become a way for a school to charge your kids and yourself more money. It is a trophy to be shown off, a way for you to guage your progression since the fighter has become one that needs a physical thing to spur him/her to continue working hard OR paying more money, I need neither. My ability to perform movements, eliminate movements that do not work for my abilities and body style and defend or attack are what I as well as my sefu guage my progression on physically, the way I apply everything guages the mental, I need no colored sash for that.

Even with the colored belt, it would mean nothing in a fight, just that I paid money to get tested on what was handed to me, like you said, based on what I was told, your logic was there but not applied wholistically.

Keep in mind that a UFC ring with a ref and gloves and filed finger nails and a list of things you can not do has very little to do with self defense in the streets. I know many of them have backgrounds in real defense, but to train for fighting like that changes the mental triggers for fighting, it is something that I as a person who has other things in life to do will not afford myself the thinning of my reactions for points and fame. I do not fight unless I intend to hurt the other person greatly or kill them using what is available to me, thinking that the other person means to kill me without a second though, this is why I avoid it whenever possible.

If you have never tried any of your deadly techniques on a resisting opponent, how do you know it works?

[tony286]

I was fucking funny I cant believe no one got it

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by RS-MEDIA

On the street you don?t end up on the ground

You do if you are fighting a grappler.

3 ranges of fighting.

1. Striking
2. Clinching/Pummelling (Stand up grappling)
3. Ground fighting

When 2 people are in 1, striking, they end up in 2, even in boxing where they break up the clinch, boxers have fallen over.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by tony404

I was fucking funny I cant believe no one got it

I did.

I love me a Rodizio.

[UtahSaints]

Originally Posted by Anthony

RS,

Even BJJ has been modified and changed. For any martial art to be effective, it HAS TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES.

Before 1993, no one had a clue what Sambo/Sombo was.

This is why Traditional Martial Arts do not work, they are caught up practicing how to defend a sword attack.

The best way to explain this is to explain BJJ.

The first rule of BJJ... Position before submission. This was only inherent to BJJ, and nowhere else. Now ALL GROUND FIGHTING styles adhere to that rule.

In 1993 Russia could afford sending anyone to competitions like Pride or UF. We didn?t even knew such thing existed. I didn?t even know it was around and I have been living in North America for 15 years.. Does it bring some light to you or your shoes are indeed that big?

[UtahSaints]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You do if you are fighting a grappler.

3 ranges of fighting.

1. Striking
2. Clinching/Pummelling (Stand up grappling)
3. Ground fighting

When 2 people are in 1, striking, they end up in 2, even in boxing where they break up the clinch, boxers have fallen over.

Blah blah blah? what did you have for dinner????

...Jumbi.. you're dismissed

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by RS-MEDIA

In 1993 Russia could afford sending anyone to competitions like Pride or UF. We didn?t even knew such thing existed. I didn?t even know it was around and I have been living in North America for 15 years.. Does it bring some light to you or your shoes are indeed that big?

Oleg Taktarov, a former UFC Champion is a Sambo fighter. This was in 1994 and 1995.

Just because you never herrd of it, doesn't mean it did not exist.

Are you that stupid to think you know it all?

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by Anthony

If you have never tried any of your deadly techniques on a resisting opponent, how do you know it works?

hmmm.... i was about to make fun of him for sounding like the typical Kung Fu "everything we do is so deadly, that its just too dangerous to spar" -- -then i remember that his supposed background is in kung fu
(might be wrong though)

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by RS-MEDIA

Blah blah blah? what did you have for dinner????

...Jumbi.. you're dismissed

You really are dense.

That was the prime example of all fights, and you have no clue about it.

You can talk about it, that's about it, because you have never trained in it.

[UtahSaints]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Oleg Taktarov, a former UFC Champion is a Sambo fighter. This was in 1994 and 1995.

Just because you never herrd of it, doesn't mean it did not exist.

Are you that stupid to think you know it all?

He was living in US you numb nut.. Guy just wanted to make a buck and he was not even close to being the best
http://olegt.com/bio.html
and no, I think you're stipid to come up here and think you know better what sambo is, was or even will be than me.. Got it????

[TheJimmy]

Originally Posted by Holly

I don't understand any of that either, but I have learned this from gfy--


*naked women
*expensive, goofy looking cars
*karate shit


These are what the boys care about.

head, you forgot head dammit

[UtahSaints]

Originally Posted by Anthony

because you have never trained in it.

How old are you, internet warrior??/

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by Anthony

BJJ was the best thing to ever happen to Martial Arts.

Before BJJ beat everyone in a NHB format, everyone thought the little 90 year old kung fu man was unbeatable.

Watching Ken Shamrock, the overwhelming favorite to win get choked out was an eye opener, for everyone.

I believe that the 90 year old man that you refer to is Yip Man. And I dont think that any of the gound fighters would have gotten close enough to him to hurt him. He beat the crap out of Bruce lee in a training exercise, and he was 88 at the time.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by RS-MEDIA

He was living in US you numb nut.. Guy just wanted to make a buck and he was not even close to being the best
http://olegt.com/bio.html
and no, I think you're stipid to come up here and think you know better what sambo is, was or even will be than me.. Got it????

Blah Blah Blah.

You don 't know shit.