Flag Burning amendment dies by single vote - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

devilspost · 06-27-2006, 08:39 PM

100 burnig flags

woj · 06-27-2006, 08:39 PM

101 flag burnings...

fuzzylogic · 06-27-2006, 09:32 PM

did we all reach an understand here and stopped bickering?

devilspost · 06-27-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzylogic

did we all reach an understand here and stopped bickering?

Yes! we are correct, you can and should be free to burn colored cloth in the USA

sacX · 06-27-2006, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunForOne

Obviously written by someone who hasn't been explained the agenda of the democratic party.

I realize its not black or white, and not everyone is a republican or democrat, but I love to laugh at the democrat supporters who claim republican governments try to take away their freedoms. Have they heard a true democrat propose social systems, healthcare or extreme regulation of private industry?

Thats is like saying I really, really want the goverment to make all the decision for me about where I live, where I work and who treats my kids medical conditions, as long as I have the freedom to symbolically burn the flag from the country who is providing my bread, (every other day).

Kids shouldn't talk politics

You might want to take a look at the budget sometime. The Republicans are the ones who have blown out the deficit. They're making all the decisions with your money. Sure they give you money back with one hand, then borrow from the Chinese with the other. Have fun with that when the Chinese decide to collect.

Rochard · 06-27-2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

That's bullshit. The first Admendment especially protects speech no one likes. After all why wouuld speech everyone agrees with need protecting? You can burn an old tatter flag and it's considered proper, but if you burn it because you are protesting teh government then it's not ok. If that's not the definition of what the 1st Admendment is protecting then we should just tear the damned Constitution uip and burn that too.

Aks yourself this, WHY does ANY speech need protecting?

ANSWER: because sometimes the government doesn't like what you have to say.

All these guys who have miltary experience that tell people like me "You haven't served to you don't get it" no YOU don't get it. Go re-read you induction oath

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;"

there is an old saying " I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death your right to say it"

Any military person that does not believe this is an emabarassment to the uniform, a hypocrite and a traitor.

I took that same oath in 1986 and I'd glady do it again if ever called for. While I swore to protect the Constitution, I saluted the flag - not the Constitution. And when the US military takes a location by force, they don't staple a copy of the Constitution up - No, they put a flag up. And then would fight to the death to ensure that flag stays there. The flag of the United States makes our allies feel safe and puts fear in the hearts of our enemies - Not the Constitution.

If I'm allowed to burn the flag in protest, does this mean I'm allowed to burn a cross on my front yard to protest the guy next door being black? I might have the right to freedom of expression, but does the guy next door not have the right to live in fear of driving pass my front lawn? Doesn't he have the right to the pursuit of happiness?

You have the right to freedom of expression to the point where you can offend others. You have the right to protest. You have the right to protest the government in a way most countries have never ever had. You should not have the right to burn the one thing that tens of thousands of our countrymen have died for.

MrJackMeHoff · 06-27-2006, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

If I'm allowed to burn the flag in protest, does this mean I'm allowed to burn a cross on my front yard to protest the guy next door being black? I might have the right to freedom of expression, but does the guy next door not have the right to live in fear of driving pass my front lawn? Doesn't he have the right to the pursuit of happiness?

Who is being scared or hurt by burning a flag?

sacX · 06-27-2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

You have the right to freedom of expression to the point where you can offend others. You have the right to protest. You have the right to protest the government in a way most countries have never ever had. You should not have the right to burn the one thing that tens of thousands of our countrymen have died for.

People don't die for a flag, they die for what it represents, don't conflate the two.

fuzzylogic · 06-27-2006, 10:47 PM

anti-flag burning fascists please relocate to IRAN

Linkster · 06-28-2006, 03:45 AM

When the President of the United States can deface the flag and people wear articles of clothing with flags on it, and as mentioned above underwear etc, as well as sports uniforms having flags on them (think nascar, nfl etc) - all in violation of Title 4 Sect 8 - without prosecution - dont you think its a little tough to rally around the fact that there were only 3 reported flag burnings in the US last year - good waste of time for out congressmen

And yes Im a vet and also spent 12 years in - and I did it to ensure that US citizens have the right to burn a flag if they want - or burn a cross in their own front yard if they feel like it

BTW - heres the pic of the prez defacing a flag:
bush flag

Quotes from Title 4:

(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform

nico-t · 06-28-2006, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

GFY dude, the salute comes from knights of old england, in salute they would raise the visor of their armor with their right hand extended
http://www.defence.gov.au/ARMY/tradi...ofSaluting.htm
What Hitler wanted his troops to do was completely different

well....

"With a 45 degree turn of his Hakenkreuz, the leader of German National Socialists combined the cross with collectivism, merged church and state, meshed religion and socialism, and mandated the worship of government."

....somehow this sounds a bit familiair when I look at the US gov

Vendzilla · 06-28-2006, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nico-t

well....

"With a 45 degree turn of his Hakenkreuz, the leader of German National Socialists combined the cross with collectivism, merged church and state, meshed religion and socialism, and mandated the worship of government."

....somehow this sounds a bit familiair when I look at the US gov

You can believe what you want, in my experience in the US military, salutes are given in respect to fellow military and to the US flag. When you cross the brow of a ship, you salute the flag of that ship. This salute is given in repect to the ship, the flag and her crew. If you feel that this is anyway can be confused with what hitler demanded of his troops, then all I can say is that you have lived a shallow life not experiencing what respect and honor feel like and I pity you!

Vendzilla · 06-28-2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linkster

When the President of the United States can deface the flag and people wear articles of clothing with flags on it, and as mentioned above underwear etc, as well as sports uniforms having flags on them (think nascar, nfl etc) - all in violation of Title 4 Sect 8 - without prosecution - dont you think its a little tough to rally around the fact that there were only 3 reported flag burnings in the US last year - good waste of time for out congressmen

And yes Im a vet and also spent 12 years in - and I did it to ensure that US citizens have the right to burn a flag if they want - or burn a cross in their own front yard if they feel like it

BTW - heres the pic of the prez defacing a flag:
bush flag

Quotes from Title 4:

(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform

well said, I too feel that people go too far with what they do with the flag, I do own a jacket with a american flag on it, but it's out of respect, I fly An american flag on flag day, memorial day and the fourth of july
I don't think it's right to have a us flag for underwear, but paint an American flag on the side of a car is ok, if it's out of respect. It's all about repect

lesbodojo · 06-28-2006, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilspost

Because it is just colored cloth

hahahaha thank you for the morning giggle.

Vendzilla · 06-28-2006, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacX

People don't die for a flag, they die for what it represents, don't conflate the two.

they are the same

devilspost · 06-28-2006, 08:17 AM

Vendzilla · 06-28-2006, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrJackMeHoff

Who is being scared or hurt by burning a flag?

ME!, MY family, MY friends and my country

AmateurFlix · 06-28-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linkster

BTW - heres the pic of the prez defacing a flag:

wtf?

Rochard · 06-28-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacX

People don't die for a flag, they die for what it represents, don't conflate the two.

I'm a third generation US Marine.

Perhaps you should explain your thoughts to my family. My grandfather died in WWII and my father in Vietnam.

giftedtwisted · 06-28-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

well said, I too feel that people go too far with what they do with the flag, I do own a jacket with a american flag on it, but it's out of respect, I fly An american flag on flag day, memorial day and the fourth of july
I don't think it's right to have a us flag for underwear, but paint an American flag on the side of a car is ok, if it's out of respect. It's all about repect

You are forgetting something.. allot of these politicians no longer have respect for the the american citizen.. they hold us in contempt or think of us as pawns and simply a Pocket to Pick.... we are the soldiers .. people like rochard's famliy serve because they respect and believe in a "cause" the cause for which the flag represents... but when a politician or disrespects the people then the people should have the right to show their disgust. A couple of members of my family were lost in WWII one of which was in normandy.

As far back as our we know, every generation of my family has served in a branch of the U.S. Military including my mother father and one brother, My grand father on my mother's side and her uncles. I don't know how far back it goes and most likely wont ever find out once the new law goes into effect that restricts citizens from birth and death records.

I feel personally and so does every member of my immediate family including my extremely conservative republican father (lost a lung for the Koren Conflict) who worships Rush Limbaughs feet that It's our flag to burn and not the governments to restrict us from doing so..

To take it away is to say "the flag is more important than the Freedom and Liberty for which it stands"

directfiesta · 06-28-2006, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

I'm a third generation US Marine.

Perhaps you should explain your thoughts to my family. My grandfather died in WWII and my father in Vietnam.

They fought and died for a cause, for beliefs, not for a piece of cloth that basically serves to identify groups ....

If a kid is on fire and a flag is on fire, same place, same time, what do you extingish first ?

giftedtwisted · 06-28-2006, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

ME!, MY family, MY friends and my country

The consitution doesnt protect us from getting our feelings hurt man.

theking · 06-28-2006, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by directfiesta

They fought and died for a cause, for beliefs, not for a piece of cloth that basically serves to identify groups ....

If a kid is on fire and a flag is on fire, same place, same time, what do you extingish first ?

They died for the cause, and beliefs the flag represents and they died while serving under the flag. The flag identifies the cause and beliefs...not just a group.

I served under the flag for 12 years and put my life on the line multiple times for the cause and beliefs the flag represents. I have had friends die while serving under the flag and the cause and the beliefs the flag represents. I myself am physically disabled from serving under the flag and the cause and beliefs the flag represents and I do not have any regrets.

If someone exercises their freedom of "speech" in the form of desecrating the flag in my presence...I will excercise my free will...to the point that it will be over my dead body, or theirs. I will not tolerate it...period.

theking · 06-28-2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

I'm a third generation US Marine.

Perhaps you should explain your thoughts to my family. My grandfather died in WWII and my father in Vietnam.

to you and your family. My ancestry is much the same since the Civil War.

S P A N N O W · 06-28-2006, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

I took that same oath in 1986 and I'd glady do it again if ever called for. While I swore to protect the Constitution, I saluted the flag - not the Constitution. And when the US military takes a location by force, they don't staple a copy of the Constitution up - No, they put a flag up. And then would fight to the death to ensure that flag stays there. The flag of the United States makes our allies feel safe and puts fear in the hearts of our enemies - Not the Constitution.

If I'm allowed to burn the flag in protest, does this mean I'm allowed to burn a cross on my front yard to protest the guy next door being black? I might have the right to freedom of expression, but does the guy next door not have the right to live in fear of driving pass my front lawn? Doesn't he have the right to the pursuit of happiness?

You have the right to freedom of expression to the point where you can offend others. You have the right to protest. You have the right to protest the government in a way most countries have never ever had. You should not have the right to burn the one thing that tens of thousands of our countrymen have died for.

Amen! As a veteran I have a unique appreciation for the flag and what it represents and although I respect other's right to express themselves I expect them to do so in a way that demonstrates a fundamental respect for all parties.

IMHO many flag-burners do so merely to provoke a reaction, negative or positive, which (they hope) serves a political agenda. That's pathetic when one feels they can only express themselves by defacing a national symbol rather than developing a persuasive argument with words (which have proven to be monumentally more powerful over the history of man than any symbol burned in effigy).

I too would gladly serve again if called upon to do so and thereby preserve the rights of those who would disrespect this country - but they will never have my respect in return!

theking · 06-28-2006, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S P A N N O W

Amen! As a veteran I have a unique appreciation for the flag and what it represents and although I respect other's right to express themselves I expect them to do so in a way that demonstrates a respect for all parties.

IMHO most people who burn flags do so only to provoke a reaction, negative or positive, which (they hope) serves a political agenda. That's pathetic when one feels they can only express themselves by defacing a national symbol rather than developing a persuasive argument with words (which have proven to be substantially more powerful over the history of man than any symbol burned in effigy).

I too would gladly serve again if called upon to do so and thereby preserve the rights of those who would disrespect this country - but they will never have my respect in return!

to you too.

seeric · 06-28-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S P A N N O W

Amen! As a veteran I have a unique appreciation for the flag and what it represents and although I respect other's right to express themselves I expect them to do so in a way that demonstrates a fundamental respect for all parties.

IMHO many flag-burners do so merely to provoke a reaction, negative or positive, which (they hope) serves a political agenda. That's pathetic when one feels they can only express themselves by defacing a national symbol rather than developing a persuasive argument with words (which have proven to be monumentally more powerful over the history of man than any symbol burned in effigy).

I too would gladly serve again if called upon to do so and thereby preserve the rights of those who would disrespect this country - but they will never have my respect in return!

also a veteran i am at heart with what rochard and spannow are saying.

i'm sure everyone sees lately how unhappy i am with what the current administration is doing to this "great" country. baring that, i am one of the most patriotic people you'll meet.

even though the ship is piloted by idiots doesn't mean that it isn't an amazing ship.

time to switch the crew is all.

i see this as just another setback and slap in the face.

congrats to all the burners.

provoke away. let the hate eat your fucking hearts out!

seeric · 06-28-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S P A N N O W

Amen! As a veteran I have a unique appreciation for the flag and what it represents and although I respect other's right to express themselves I expect them to do so in a way that demonstrates a fundamental respect for all parties.

IMHO many flag-burners do so merely to provoke a reaction, negative or positive, which (they hope) serves a political agenda. That's pathetic when one feels they can only express themselves by defacing a national symbol rather than developing a persuasive argument with words (which have proven to be monumentally more powerful over the history of man than any symbol burned in effigy).

I too would gladly serve again if called upon to do so and thereby preserve the rights of those who would disrespect this country - but they will never have my respect in return!

also a veteran i am at heart with what rochard and spannow are saying.

i'm sure everyone sees lately how unhappy i am with what the current administration is doing to this "great" country. baring that, i am one of the most patriotic people you'll meet.

even though the ship is piloted by idiots doesn't mean that it isn't an amazing ship.

time to switch the crew is all.

i see this as just another setback and slap in the face.

congrats to all the burners.

provoke away. let the hate eat your fucking hearts out!

nico-t · 06-28-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giftedtwisted

Like I said before why not ban burning copies of the Bill of Rights, The Civil Rights Act, U.S. constitution etc..??? then after that what else do we ban??? I'm not arguing that burning of the flag isn't a bad thing to see or even disgracefull, BUT life is hard...and the consutition doesn't protect you from getting your feelings hurt. This is more about the precident that it sets for the future.

Why not simply invoke local laws that limit open fires in public without a permit? No, our government has to Suddenly decide that the burning of the flag needs to be banned.

There are more important things in this world than the flag. Which btw we wear as underwear, tshirts, and shoes.... so if we can shit sweat and walk on our flag why can't we burn it for a cause?
red white and blue for fun :-)

owns you all

mardigras · 06-28-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

If someone exercises their freedom of "speech" in the form of desecrating the flag in my presence...I will excercise my free will...to the point that it will be over my dead body, or theirs. I will not tolerate it...period.

If it's THEIR flag (and they are not tresspassing) then you should rightfully go to jail should you commit assault.

Different story if it's your flag, then it would be "defending property"

dig420 · 06-28-2006, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

I took that same oath in 1986 and I'd glady do it again if ever called for. While I swore to protect the Constitution, I saluted the flag - not the Constitution. And when the US military takes a location by force, they don't staple a copy of the Constitution up - No, they put a flag up. And then would fight to the death to ensure that flag stays there. The flag of the United States makes our allies feel safe and puts fear in the hearts of our enemies - Not the Constitution.

If I'm allowed to burn the flag in protest, does this mean I'm allowed to burn a cross on my front yard to protest the guy next door being black? I might have the right to freedom of expression, but does the guy next door not have the right to live in fear of driving pass my front lawn? Doesn't he have the right to the pursuit of happiness?

You have the right to freedom of expression to the point where you can offend others. You have the right to protest. You have the right to protest the government in a way most countries have never ever had. You should not have the right to burn the one thing that tens of thousands of our countrymen have died for.

It's easy to fall into the repub trap of loving the symbol of our freedoms more than our actual freedoms. Beware.

Vendzilla · 06-28-2006, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giftedtwisted

The consitution doesnt protect us from getting our feelings hurt man.

No it doesn't, but voiceing my opinion as a veteran, working with veteran groups to insure that congress and the senate and the president listen to our concerns about some assholes that want to burn a flag that they don't seem to understand just to make the front page should be outlawed.
If someone wants to get involved in this country, then stand up and make a difference in positive involvement, not by destroying something.

I belong to the USSVI. United States Submarine Veterans inc. I do so in hopes to make it heard that the US is a great country, yes we disagree with the government, but as long as most people are compliant in the 2 party system there is not much we can do about it. We contact local government and get things done, we raise money for scholarships, we even clean the road side once a month.

If you have a cause and want to make a point, don't distroy something, that is the mentality of a terrorist, instead get off the couch and stand up and get involved!

Vendzilla · 06-28-2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig420

It's easy to fall into the repub trap of loving the symbol of our freedoms more than our actual freedoms. Beware.

If you have a cause and want to make a point, don't distroy something, that is the mentality of a terrorist, instead get off the couch and stand up and get involved!

giftedtwisted · 06-28-2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

No it doesn't, but voiceing my opinion as a veteran, working with veteran groups to insure that congress and the senate and the president listen to our concerns about some assholes that want to burn a flag that they don't seem to understand just to make the front page should be outlawed.
If someone wants to get involved in this country, then stand up and make a difference in positive involvement, not by destroying something.

I belong to the USSVI. United States Submarine Veterans inc. I do so in hopes to make it heard that the US is a great country, yes we disagree with the government, but as long as most people are compliant in the 2 party system there is not much we can do about it. We contact local government and get things done, we raise money for scholarships, we even clean the road side once a month.

If you have a cause and want to make a point, don't distroy something, that is the mentality of a terrorist, instead get off the couch and stand up and get involved!

being in the military or involved in it in anyways doesnt make your rights supercede other's rights.

I wont stop anyone from burning the flag if i see.. it will offend me, but It will also get my attention and make me ask the person why..

Burning your own flag that you payed for from a store is not a terrorist act so whoever says it is needs to look back at your politicians and ask how many of them burned them in the 60's

Fact is this people... To make a law bannig it is to say we HAVE a problem with people doing it....

I dont know the exact figures but I'm sure eveyone will agree.. it's not an epidemic...

the fed governement loves to make laws... ban things, restrict us, tax us and refuse us our freedoms... this is just another way to do so....

why not outlaw burning of the state flags too? Then ten years later once us flag burning is banned they will move onto the next thing... no burning of flags from other countries that american have come from. because OOOOOOOOOooo it offends them too.. dont offend anyone.

come on this site is called go fuck yourself... and you are complaining about being offended by the burning of the flag.

Ironic don't you think?

EZRhino · 06-28-2006, 01:32 PM

Ones expression of freedom and sacrifice should be more then just flag. Saying that, most people who burn flags dont do it for freedom of expression or speech but to piss people off and disrespect our nations veterans.

directfiesta · 06-28-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZRhino

Ones expression of freedom and sacrifice should be more then just flag. Saying that, most people who burn flags dont do it for freedom of expression or speech but to piss people off and disrespect our nations veterans.

How many instance of flag burning are we talking about ??? Enough to justify the change of the CONSTITUTION ???

I don't think so ... Flags exists in every country, provinces, cities and organization .. They are so to identify the people ...

As example, during the Olympics, each nationalities of athletes walk with their flag, so we know who the fuck they are ...

Americans ( read: right wing war hungry ) are very confused ...

I never burned a flag ( any nationality ) and would not do so because it is a simple piece of cloth .... nothing more ...

What is next... you will ban burning of crests that are to be sowned on uniforms ....

Tom_PM · 06-28-2006, 01:45 PM

It's politics obviously. Coming to a political ad near you

OG LennyT · 06-28-2006, 01:48 PM

dont we have more important things going on?

whats next? Roe vs Wade part 345?

uno · 06-28-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pure Evil

what if i wanted to express myself by spray painting all over a wall. is that freedom of expresion? no thats vandalism.

That is one of the worst comparisons i've heard. Vandalism and expression are VERY different things. I'm sure most people burn their self or group bought flags rather than stealing them. I'd be against burning stolen flags, but then i'm against stealing anything and also against destroying stolen property.

06-27-2006, 08:39 PM	#101
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06-27-2006, 08:39 PM	#102
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06-28-2006, 03:45 AM	#110
Linkster Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: DeltaHell Posts: 3,216	When the President of the United States can deface the flag and people wear articles of clothing with flags on it, and as mentioned above underwear etc, as well as sports uniforms having flags on them (think nascar, nfl etc) - all in violation of Title 4 Sect 8 - without prosecution - dont you think its a little tough to rally around the fact that there were only 3 reported flag burnings in the US last year - good waste of time for out congressmen And yes Im a vet and also spent 12 years in - and I did it to ensure that US citizens have the right to burn a flag if they want - or burn a cross in their own front yard if they feel like it BTW - heres the pic of the prez defacing a flag: bush flag Quotes from Title 4: (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform __________________ Porn Links Crak for your bank account - Get Addicted FREE LIVE CAM SHOWS

06-28-2006, 08:17 AM	#116
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06-28-2006, 01:45 PM	#137
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	It's politics obviously. Coming to a political ad near you __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

06-27-2006, 09:32 PM	#103
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06-27-2006, 10:47 PM	#109
fuzzylogic Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: buffalo, las vegas. icq: 285808879 Posts: 4,796	anti-flag burning fascists please relocate to IRAN

06-28-2006, 01:32 PM	#135
EZRhino Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: couch Posts: 6,258	Ones expression of freedom and sacrifice should be more then just flag. Saying that, most people who burn flags dont do it for freedom of expression or speech but to piss people off and disrespect our nations veterans.

06-28-2006, 01:48 PM	#138
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