fuzzylogic

quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A constitutional amendment to ban flag desecration died in a Senate cliffhanger Tuesday, a single vote short of the support needed to send it to the states for ratification a week before Independence Day.

The 66-34 tally in favor of the amendment was one less than the two-thirds required. The House surpassed that threshold last year, 286-130.

cnn.com


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Dagwolf

That was fast. I just heard about the proposed amendment this morning.

Quick resolution is so gratifying.

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GatorB

"Countless men and women have died defending that flag," said Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tennessee, closing two days of debate. "It is but a small humble act for us to defend it."

No they died defending the CONSTITUTION you asshole!

My grandfather didn't strom the beaches of Normandy on D-Day and watch his friends get their heads blown off and almost get killed by the Nazis himself just so this country can be just like the one he was fighting against.

DivaShane

I'm so glad to hear that this one didn't pass!

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Pure Evil

what the fuck is wrong with you people? why the fuck would you want it to be legal for some sorry ass motherfucker to burn the symbol of our nation?

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devilspost

Because it is just colored cloth

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fuzzylogic

why not?
it does not affect my opinions and that person has the right to express his opinion in whatever mannor excluding physically harming anyone or property.

plus, we can always have a factory make another flag.

vvq

why would you want it to be illegal?

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Pure Evil

that is the most ignorant damn thing i have ever heard

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candyflip

Scary still that they only came up one vote short.

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devilspost

You dont get out much do you.

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Pure Evil

because some things deserve to be protected

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nofx

flag burning rules

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nofx

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soulswagon

And they died to defend us against pricks like the ones in office now. It saddens me that they died for our freedom and now the people that send them off to fight try to take away the very freedoms they died for.

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fuzzylogic

word
we must always work to prevent sliding into facistism

D

Freedom of expression, for starters.

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Pure Evil

when was the last time you pledged allegiance to the Constitution?

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fris

prob the same time he read the bible

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Pure Evil

what if i wanted to express myself by spray painting all over a wall. is that freedom of expresion? no thats vandalism.

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candyflip

Somethings aren't always meant to be taken so literally. It's what that the flag stands for...FREEDOM

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HushMoney

you can't defend freedom of speech only when it's something you agree with. That's the whole point.

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FunForOne

Obviously written by someone who hasn't been explained the agenda of the democratic party.

I realize its not black or white, and not everyone is a republican or democrat, but I love to laugh at the democrat supporters who claim republican governments try to take away their freedoms. Have they heard a true democrat propose social systems, healthcare or extreme regulation of private industry?

Thats is like saying I really, really want the goverment to make all the decision for me about where I live, where I work and who treats my kids medical conditions, as long as I have the freedom to symbolically burn the flag from the country who is providing my bread, (every other day).


Kids shouldn't talk politics

Tom_PM

Nobody said "republican governments", they said pricks like the ones in office now" lol

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Vendzilla

I find it very clear that you have never been in the military, the flag is a very strong symbol of our nation, it represents what many in the military have given their lives for. If you don't understand this, go to a military base at dusk when you have the chance and watch as the whole base stops in their tracks to salute our flag. Or when there is a military burial, a gun salute and then the shells from the gun salute and the flag from the flag ceremony are given to the widow or windower out of respect for what that soldier gave for his or her country. I lost my stepdad last year, 66 years old, died of cancer, given full military honors, my mother has the flag.
If someoine had a deathwish, they could have protested there, or even tried to burn that flag, and I will tell you straight , they would have never found the bodies.
So if you don't think that the American flag doesn't deserve the respect of her citizens, that's your right! Burn it from of me and your chances of seeing tomorrow are slim at best.
Yes I served in the Navy, on submarines, I'm a bit crazy and I'm proud of my nation, and I question our leaders, but the flag has nothing to do with that.

The first American flag was made out of hemp, so if you need to burn something, go burn some hemp!

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

D

True...

and, generally, if caught, you'd be fined a small amount or have to spend 30 hours in the next week cleaning other acts of vandalism in community service.

Likewise, if it was illegal to ignite a fire in a city's limits, maybe a flag-burner would get busted for igniting a fire in a public place, and be fined a small amount... so the physical act of burning something might be a crime, and if so, due punishment should go down...

But burning a flag is an act of expression. If the act of burning _anything_ is a crime, fine... and let the punishment fit the crime... but to limit the scope to a burning a particular item... especially when the act of burning that item is a means of protest or expression... that's censorship, my friend.

And censorship is about as unamerican as it comes.

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LittleMack

Amen brother...I am proud of my nation and would fight and die for the continuous freedoms we enjoy

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Vendzilla

So your OK with the KKK burning a cross?

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

jayeff

Powerful it may be, but the flag remains a symbol: the Constitution is far more important if it sadly has to be a choice between the two.

devilspost

I am not a citizen of the flag. I also dont fall for jingoistic bullshit.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel". Samuel Johnson

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MrJackMeHoff

Doesn't matter if you like it or not. Its freedom of expression and we should never supress that.

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DWB

And THAT is exactly the problem. Nobody cares about the Constitution anymore.

devilspost

I am OK with it just another symbol for the sheep to worship.

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Vendzilla

A cucumber should be well-sliced, dressed with pepper and vinegar, and then thrown out.

Samuel Johnson

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

LittleMack

It is not censorship, go to Iran or another country and burn their flag, stoning or other execution would be in order. The USA has a great freedom of speech but to shit on the symbol of the country that permits this freedom is just fucked up.

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Vendzilla

Last friday! At the drag races.

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

soulswagon

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't singling out any party. I'm not a democrat, and I'm not a republican. They're both out to fuck us one way or another. I don't care for either one. I'm just saying 90% of politicians and government officials (on state and local levels as well) aren't out to protect our rights.

For one it should be legal to shoot porn in any fucking city you want, as long you're not filming in public.

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Big_Red

Good. But don't mind me if I catch you burning an American flag and I kick your ass.

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devilspost

In Their Own Words: Compendium of Veterans' Quotes Against the Flag Desecration Amendment

http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/flag/...s20040304.html

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D

Complete freedom of expression up to the point that it treads on another person's right to life, liberty, or property is what I agree with.

If a burning of a cross is meant to be used to threaten the life of another individual, then no... I wouln't agree with that. That's "assault", and is obviously infringing on another's rights.

For the same reason, it's illegal to yell out "FIRE" in a crowded room... sure, you're expressing yourself, but people can get trampled to death in the result.

The flag is a symbol. Burning it is, at least in my judgement, accepted as a statement that has nothing to do with threatening the life, liberty, or property of anyone else... it's a shock tactic that merely makes people (myself included, for what it's worth) feel uncomfortable.

if you're gonna ban flag burning, might as well ban porn while you're at it. Same thing, different (and hopefully narrower) focus group.

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Vendzilla

And Kerry was a vet!

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

DWB

Of course that is what happens on a military base. How else do you supposed they program them to be dumb enough to go and risk death for them? Sad really. But humans do need faith and a cause. Give them religion, country, and currency... and you are set to engineer the perfect slave.

I'm the first male in my entire family to not join the marines. No fucking way. I'm not going to give my life for a sack of lies and greed. No thanks, I will leave that to the guys who actually think they are fighting for someone worth while. In the meantime I will enjoy the ocean view from my condo in Thailand and nod my head as I watch American disintegrate daily on CNN.

I would NOT burn a flag, but it does not bother me at all if someone does. The reason I would not is not because I think it stands for something, but I would not because I can find better things to do with my time. That and I would not waste my money on a flag. Flags & countries are as stupid as religion and only divide us as humans and races. I am of planet earth, and they day they allow me to have a passport that says so... I will get it and burn the American one. I would not dare to think of myself so small that I could only be proud of one land divided by imaginary lines on the earth. Get real. America may own me on paper, but that day will also come to an end.

Democracy is only a nano-second on the timeline of history, and it it appears that it is not working now as well as they planned...

giftedtwisted

Right

Let's pass a law banning the burning uf reproductions flags, but not burning copies of the The Civil Rights Act, Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, Original Design of the Great Seal of the United States, or the Constitution of the United States?

All of these things are symbols as well as functional items for the U.S. These, by measure are more important than the Flag itself.

I am offended when I see somone burning the flag in a rally or protest of some sort, but it does make me think what is charging this person to have such contempt for the "issue at hand?" What make them feel they need to burn the flag to get the attention of their representatives?

If anything they should find a way to "ban/arrest/prosecute/burn/poop on" government officials who ignore the needs and rights of the citizens of this country, and push their own agenda that serves noone but themselves and other politicians.

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Webby

Interesting.

Western countries still make pledges? It's usually a regime type country trend.

Can't say I've ever made a "pledge" over a nation, flag or much else. There are far bigger fish to fry.

Done a few "Swear to tell the truth, the whole truth.." stuff tho - but that's not exactly the same.

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