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-   -   Army raises enlistment age to 42! (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=624728)

fitzmulti 06-22-2006 11:43 AM
Glad I'm 44! :thumbsup

directfiesta 06-22-2006 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdgeXXX
I may have indeed missed something, but where did you read that the US Govt / Military was hiring them to do covert ops or indeed any missioning whatsoever?

" covert " ..??? Who said covert, aside from you.

" missioning " ... well, I think they are there for something.. if it is not for the picnic, what could it be for?

Quote:
-- The U.S.-led occupation authority in Iraq said it plans to spend as much as $100 million over the next 14 months to hire private security forces to protect the Green Zone, the 4-square-mile headquarters area in Baghdad, which is currently guarded primarily by U.S. troops.
Looks like they are doing the job of the US troops ...

Basically, it is outsourcing... and this brings us back to the topic :

up to 42 years old, because troops are needed ... So if people wont enlist, private " security " contractors will fill the void .

Here is the cost rapport :

19 980.00 vs 200 000.00

Quote:
According to figures current during the active war a year ago, the salary of a soldier in the lowest rank who has one year's service was $15,480 a year - only a thousand dollars more than the average pay for an usher in a movie theatre in the USA. The pay for an experienced corporal of three years of service was $19,980 a year.

Meanwhile, the government pays private firms between $500 and $1,500 a day for the experienced military personnel they supply in Iraq. That works out to mercenaries who often earn between $150,000 and $250,000 a year.

the Shemp 06-22-2006 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg B
i'm okay, unless they raise it to 56...

EdgeXXX 06-22-2006 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by directfiesta
" covert " ..??? Who said covert, aside from you.

" missioning " ... well, I think they are there for something.. if it is not for the picnic, what could it be for?



Looks like they are doing the job of the US troops ...

Basically, it is outsourcing... and this brings us back to the topic :

up to 42 years old, because troops are needed ... So if people wont enlist, private " security " contractors will fill the void .

Here is the cost rapport :

19 980.00 vs 200 000.00
Maybe you are correct, maybe they are hiring private security companies. However, one thing that is missing out of this equation is that most (if not all) of those agencies only hire Honorably Discharged US Military personnel (and most want SpecOps experience). I just picked on at random from your list (Blackwater) and here are their requirements to even sign up for their Indoc Academy (which is basically like Boot Camp and SOI all over again):


# U.S. Citizen, proof of citizenship required
# Applicants must, at a minimum, have completed a four year tour of duty in the Armed Forces or its equivalent as determined by the admissions review board.
# Only those who were honorably discharged need apply.
# Applicants will be required to pass a physical fitness test prior to admission.
# Applicants may not exceed a Body Mass Index of 24.9% calculated using the National Institute of Health (NIH) formula.
# Applicants must meet eligibility requirements for a top secret security clearance.


So, the Govt (Military) is basically paying for highly trained US soldiers to be over there guarding it instead of some grunt just out of Basic.

marketsmart 06-22-2006 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdgeXXX
I may have indeed missed something, but where did you read that the US Govt / Military was hiring them to do covert ops or indeed any missioning whatsoever?
they do do covert ops... you only hear about them when they get caught... they are used for the purpose of being able to have blame placed on the contractor instead of the govt...

do any of you know how wackenhut got its start? it wasnt providing secutiy guards....

MetaMan 06-22-2006 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pussyluver
Sure! Don't worry about it! We got ya covered. USA

lol i love this quote so true,

everyone expects the USA to do the dirty work but then hate on them.

directfiesta 06-22-2006 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdgeXXX
Maybe you are correct, maybe they are hiring private security companies. However, one thing that is missing out of this equation is that most (if not all) of those agencies only hire Honorably Discharged US Military personnel (and most want SpecOps experience). I just picked on at random from your list (Blackwater) and here are their requirements to even sign up for their Indoc Academy (which is basically like Boot Camp and SOI all over again):


# U.S. Citizen, proof of citizenship required
# Applicants must, at a minimum, have completed a four year tour of duty in the Armed Forces or its equivalent as determined by the admissions review board.
# Only those who were honorably discharged need apply.
# Applicants will be required to pass a physical fitness test prior to admission.
# Applicants may not exceed a Body Mass Index of 24.9% calculated using the National Institute of Health (NIH) formula.
# Applicants must meet eligibility requirements for a top secret security clearance.


So, the Govt (Military) is basically paying for highly trained US soldiers to be over there guarding it instead of some grunt just out of Basic.
You can spin it as much as you want, they are NOT US troops anymore, not more than my ex is my wife ...

Now, for your moral endorsment ( and I really don't know why you bring this is your spin ... ) some do have morals and ethics, but some don't:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Co...50215.300w.jpg
Feb. 15: Employees of a U.S. private contractor hired by the U.S. military to protect supplies say the brutality they witnessed against Iraqis led them to quit. NBC's Lisa Myers reports.

Quote:
There are new allegations that heavily armed private security contractors in Iraq are brutalizing Iraqi civilians. In an exclusive interview, four former security contractors told NBC News that they watched as innocent Iraqi civilians were fired upon, and one crushed by a truck. The contractors worked for an American company paid by U.S. taxpayers. The Army is looking into the allegations.

The four men are all retired military veterans: Capt. Bill Craun, Army Rangers; Sgt. Jim Errante, military police; Cpl. Ernest Colling, U.S. Army; and Will Hough, U.S. Marines. All went to Iraq months ago as private security contractors.

"I went there for the money," says Hough.

"I'm a patriot," says Craun.

"You can't turn off being a soldier," says Colling.

They worked for an American company named Custer Battles, hired by the Pentagon to conduct dangerous missions guarding supply convoys. They were so upset by what they saw, three quit after only one or two missions.

"What we saw, I know the American population wouldn't stand for," says Craun.

They claim heavily armed security operators on Custer Battles' missions ? among them poorly trained young Kurds, who have historical resentments against other Iraqis ? terrorized civilians, shooting indiscriminately as they ran for cover, smashing into and shooting up cars.

On a mission on Nov. 8, escorting ammunition and equipment for the Iraqi army, they claim a Kurd guarding the convoy allegedly shot into a passenger car to clear a traffic jam.

"[He] sighted down his AK-47 and started firing," says Colling. "It went through the window. As far as I could see, it hit a passenger. And they didn't even know we were there."

Later, the convoy came upon two teenagers by the road. One allegedly was gunned down.

"The rear gunner in my vehicle shot him," says Colling. "Unarmed, walking kids."

In another traffic jam, they claim a Ford 350 pickup truck smashed into, then rolled up and over the back of a small sedan full of Iraqis.

"The front of the truck came down," says Craun. "I could see two children sitting in the back seat of that car with their eyes looking up at the axle as it came down and pulverized the back."

"I said, 'Wow, what hit this car?'" remembers Hough.

Could anyone have survived?

"Probably not. Not from what I saw," says Hough.

The men assume that in all three incidents the Iraqis were seriously hurt or killed. But they can't be sure.

"It was chaos and carnage and destruction the whole day," says Craun.

Two of the men ? Craun and Colling ? say they quit immediately.

Craun, in an e-mail two days later to a friend at the Pentagon, wrote: "I didn't want any part of an organization that deliberately murders children and innocent civilians."

Errante says he also quit after witnessing wild, indiscriminate shootings on two other missions.

"I said I didn't want to be a witness to any of these, what could be classified as a war crime," says Errante.

Once back in the U.S., Craun ? recipient of the Bronze Star ? took the allegations to Army criminal investigators. The Army tells NBC News it's looking into the matter.

This is not the firm?s first brush with controversy. Custer Battles is a relatively new company in the booming field of so-called "private military companies" in Iraq providing veteran soldiers from around the world for various security jobs. Named for founders Michael Battles and Scott Custer, who are military veterans, the company quickly nabbed lucrative contracts in Iraq, where U.S. authorities needed firms who were willing to accept high-risk assignments.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6947745/
... more spin please.... no links, it is not good for spin.

pr0 06-22-2006 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg B
Well pickins is slim for recruits. If you have a felony on ya ya can't sign up. That wipes out two thirds of all the minorities and a good fifth of mainstream culture. You watch, we'll end up outsourcing military recruitment to India or China.

Rome #2

or my favorite

"Rome Reloaded"

EdgeXXX 06-22-2006 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by directfiesta
You can spin it as much as you want, they are NOT US troops anymore, not more than my ex is my wife ...

Now, for your moral endorsment ( and I really don't know why you bring this is your spin ... ) some do have morals and ethics, but some don't:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Co...50215.300w.jpg
Feb. 15: Employees of a U.S. private contractor hired by the U.S. military to protect supplies say the brutality they witnessed against Iraqis led them to quit. NBC's Lisa Myers reports.



... more spin please.... no links, it is not good for spin.

Like I said, you may be right. As far as putting a spin on it, I wouldn't say so. I am a retired US Marine with a considerable amount of Force Recon (USMC "Special Forces") and SpecOps training and experience. Does the fact that I am no longer in the military make me any less deadly or less trained as a soldier than a new recruit just coming out of Basic Training? Of course not; I'm still probably more qualified than most of them over there. I see your point about them not being "troops" or current Military personnel though, and you're right.
But personally I don't have a problem sending qualified soldiers over there to help out (dunno about the hiring of untrained Kurd operators though, never heard that one before).

fallenmuffin 06-22-2006 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottis
Imagine making your way through the desert in your jet-powered wheelchair.
:1orglaugh I wouldn't put it past our government

woj 06-22-2006 01:23 PM
50,....... :glugglug

AmateurFlix 06-22-2006 03:02 PM
"They claim heavily armed security operators on Custer Battles' missions ? among them poorly trained young Kurds"

well there's the answer about whether they're hiring foreigners for the 'security forces'

our tax dollars are paying a salary to the very people that are supposed to be fighting alongside US troops for their own country anyway.

directfiesta 06-22-2006 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

our tax dollars are paying a salary to the very people that are supposed to be fighting alongside US troops for their own country anyway.
If it was just that, wouldn't be so bad ...

U.S. delayed telling families GIs killed by Iraqis
Relatives told 9 months after probe that Iraqi trainees killed 2 soldiers

Quote:
Soldiers who witnessed the attack have told Nadia McCaffrey two Iraqi patrolmen opened fire on her son?s unit. The witnesses also said a third gunman simultaneously drove up to the American unit in a van, climbed onto the vehicle and fired at the Americans, she said.

Iraqi forces who had trained with the Americans had fired at them twice before the incident that killed Patrick McCaffrey, and he had reported it to his superiors, Nadia McCaffrey said.
now, let's get back to the democracy spreading :Oh crap

The Duck 06-22-2006 03:54 PM
Thanks for the info.


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