Great thread with info. Never knew so many gfyers took MA.

KRL,

It's hard to find a good Krav instructor nowadays. They are giving away certificiations for KM. :(

Krav Maga is the Tae Kwon Do of the new millenia.

That's all well and good Anthony, but in those fights that Belfort won that I'm referring to, he didn't use a single skill that he learned from BJJ, it was all boxing.

I'm just saying there's more to fighting than just grappling, and I suggested Krav Maga for self defense purposes.
Personally I think you definitely need to know "how" to fight on the ground in case you end up there, but the ground is NOT where I want to be in a self defense situation.

Found some short Krav Maga videos:

http://kravmaga.com/video.asp

Ahhh, I understand Lenny. Yes, Vitor has some fast hands!

There is the saying in MMA, "Every fighter has a Puncher's Chance to win". Vitor nickname is "The Phenom" or was.

But going back to the original statement I made, if just one, BJJ, but if there is a MMA school, go there.

So you would consider Krav Maga an MMA school?

KRL...

Krav Maga is taught in a co operative enviroment.

That means, no one is punching or fighting back.

I went to a KM/Combatives school where I lived in Canada for an intro class. When free sparring took place, I owned everyone. All their skill went out the window when a larger person got inside, took them to the ground and submitted them.

If KM was so good, why isn't it being used in the ring or cage for MMA?

The standard answer is, we don't do sportfighting, and it's too deadly for the cage.

BS, imho.

Absolutely not.

Read my post above to KRL.

Wow you mean you were able to submit people that were there for an introductory class? With all of their 2 hours of experience I'm surprised :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Did you submit the instructor? That would impress me.

Krav Maga is much much older than MMA and could care less about the octagon. Your butterfly guard isn't going to keep me from grabbing your hair and slamming your head into the pavement, or jamming my thumb in your eye, or biting your ear off.
I'm not interested in being the UFC champion, I'm interested in surviving if I'm attacked in an alley by 2 thugs with lead pipes. You go ahead and put the first guy into an armbar while the 2nd guy bashes your head in.
Maybe you'll get him to tap out before your brains start leaking onto the pavement. :1orglaugh

hahaha, I used BJJ and Judo on the school students, I was there for an intro class. The instuctor did not roll with me, but told me I was good on the ground. He did bring up what are you gonna do if the guy in your guard has a knife? Which I said, I wouldn't be going down on the ground with him, I would run. Only you KM types think you can take out someone with a knife or gun.

I figured you were one of the KM types who think their shit is too deadly for the ring. If you can't beat one person in a rule enviroment, what makes you think you can do it in real life?

You are a Martial Arts LARPER (Live Action Role Player), fantasy is a good place to make money, and KM is truly the TKD of our times. That's why you will never see KM anywhere in MMA.

Ahh, the voice of inexperience speaks! If you're in a good guard, and you reach forward to grab hair, you're going to end up in an armbar everytime. Same goes for finger in the eye. Arms that far forward is bad period. If your mouth could reach somebody's ear in the guard, you're going to get sweapt. Off center, no posture. Day 1 stuff.

It doesn't matter what kind of hobby martial artist you are, your chances against two guys with weapons are low period. :2 cents:

I also found it funny, that the students went through their little books going over the "KATA" or planned movements they were doing with each other.

Yep, it's alive training, knowing how your opponent is going to react and attack.

It's unreal the fantasy world some MA's are in.

Let's just go into adrenal dump. Your trying to poke my eyes out takes fine motor skills. That goes out the window in a fight. Only Gross or large muscles react, and while your are groping for my eyes, I'm armbarring you, just like Warchild said.

What makes BJJ, Muay Thai, Boxing, Judo, and wrestling so effective is it is GROSS MOTOR SKILLS being used, and against a LIVE RESISTING OPPONENT.

Interesting, didn't think about it that way. (The ground stuff I mean)

However, would you agree that there's more to self defense than just grappling?
Don't you think that if you're in an alley or in a hostile environment where there are more people than just you and the guy you're fighting with, that staying off of the ground might be a good idea?

Sure, there's absolutely more to self defense than just grappling. I've put more than one guy down with the first punch, and caught a few guys shooting in with knees too. Grappling wasn't much help to those guys. Face to face, one on one in a standup fight, a good grappler can almost always bring a non grappler down though. Heads up with an excellent Judoka, even more likely you'll end up on the ground (and probably in great pain).

Lots of times you don't want to end up on the ground, but there's more to grappling than just ending up on the ground. Stand up clinch is very important too. Mix in Muay Thai for knees and elbows, and a fight can be over quickly. :2 cents:

Jesus Lenny... I don't care if you are Mas Oyama, Bruce Lee, or Chuck Norris.

The first rule of fighting multiple opponents is to run the fuck away. Your chances of winning are now 2 to 1. My life is worth more to me than those odds.

BJJ is not just about fighting on the ground, please do some research on it. When you know how to sweep someone, YOU ARE NOW ON TOP.

BJJ is about knowing how to fight on your back, and learning how to get off your back to get positional superiorty.

They give free intro classes to BJJ Lenny, if you want a suggestion on a school in your area, try BJJ.org

I'd love for you to see for yourself. :)

The most effective self defense for multiple attackers, especially armed ones, is a carry permit. Cover all your bases.

YOU KNOW IT BABY!!!

I love Florida. :)

Warchild,

Your first class, did they do the Upa with you?

Rener Gracie had me sit on him full mount. He said, I want you to keep your balance and don['t let me roll you off of me.

5 times! He got me 5 times. I weighed 280lbs, and him 190lbs.

Then we switched, he was on full mount, and told me to get him off. I tried for about 2 or 3 minutes, at this time I am dying, and couldn't get him off of me.

After that first lesson, I was hooked for life. I can't wait for class tomorrow. :)

My first class was spent primarily doing shoulder rolls and shrimping. Okay not really, but damn near.

First things we were taught included Upa, escape from side mount (SHRIMP!) and basic scissors sweep from closed guard.

My instructor is Brazilian and speaks very little English, with his accent it sounds like he's always yelling "SHREMP!".

GOtta love them Brazillians!

:1orglaugh

i think lenny's point was very valid, that a bjj isnt the "one all" thing to know...you still have to get a guy to the ground, which means at some point you're going to have to step into his punching range

biggest "weakness" i notice in alot of MMA fighters is a HORRIBLE hands game....i think a guy with great hands & a solid bjj game is the most dangerous combo

about Muay Thai and what i've read about BJJ - it relies to much on one's body strength - this is not what i'm looking for.

someone asked if I want to fight dirty or just defend myself, so here the goals:
I want an art\method the can make a granny overcome a thug because she knew how and where to hit the opponent (smart swift moves).
dirty is good as long as it's realistic (poking an eye is not because it takes way too much nerve for the granny, kicking the balls IS)
if the fight took more than a few seconds against anyone NOT trained in any kind of MA - it's not what I need.

Yeah, I got that, thanks. :)

There is already a fighter with great hands and a great ground game.

His name is Fedor Emelianenko and he fights for Pride FC.

Pound for pound the best MMA fighter in the world.

Yes and no.

Muay Thai is brutal on the joints and requires good conditioing. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, unlike Muaty Thai or it's parent Japanese Jiu Jitsu, is all about thinking, technique and leverage. Weight and strength always play a part, but as far as a grannie overcoming a thug, BJJ is among the better bets.

76.......

the keywords are:
to neutralize a 3 times bigger opponent as fast as possible.

Well for that your best bet is a magical DND sword of thug slaying +3.

i hate seeing silly shit like this:


http://www.kravmaga.be/pages/Picture...ashlargeen.jpg



a guy with a knife, with bad intentions, is gonna gut an unarmed man 999 times out of 1000


look at those ridiculous step-by-step photos....like the guy is gonna just stand there while the KM guy applies his self defense

:1orglaugh

win shui ;)

Get a gun.

Okay but what if the guy with the knife doesn't really have that bad of intentions? Like, maybe this morning he just put that knife in his belt because he was thinking about his wife in a shallow grave, and then at the exact time he ran in to you he remembered it and he was like "hey a knife!". Then what?

Even better than MA, and even a gun for that matter, is to just have a trained police dog with you. Its like walking around with a lion by your side.

Downside to packing a gun is you got to be willing to shoot to kill, most people think they can but in the split second they invevitably hesitate deciding to fire or not, if the bad guy is packing too, you're fucked. Plus it's very rare, especially in the dark, and when you aren't expecting something, to be able to get your gun out fast every time and get a good on target lethal first shot. You can also lose control of the weapon if you shoot and the guy is juiced up and keeps coming at you.

From all the experiences I've had, having a huge and highly intimidating dog, has worked the best. Couple weeks a go for example, taking a late night walk by the beach and a couple of gangsta types saw me walking alone coming around a corner and started crossing from the other side of the road towards me. I use a long leash so between that, the angle I was at, and the dark shadows, they didn't see my Shepherd. When he alerted and started going ballistic they did a 180 and hightailed it down the street. LOL

K9 dogs have such a powerful fierce killer look about them that instantly says don't even think about it. :1orglaugh

http://eden.policek9.com/assets/images/buddy.gif

Nice Dog! I love GSD's. :)

It goes without saying, that if you are going to carry a gun, you should get training.

When I started shooting almost a year ago, I made sure that I got trained for combat situations. My Defensive Firearm instructors are Former SAS.

I was a target shooter, now, it's all about the mozambiques. :) As for being juiced up, I carry either the .40 or the .45 both rounds are man stoppers, coupled with the defensive rounds I carry, I"m not worried about the PCP head.

With martial arts and guns, training like you fight is the way to go.

I've said at least 3 times in this thread, if you can find a MMA school go there, if you can't BJJ.

He wants a fighting style that can stop someone 3 times their size. If he's 150lbs, it's 450lbs. If it's for Grandma who's 100, it's 300lbs.

Not happening, and if you want best percentages, get a gun.. and get trained in using it.

That is a complex question. In my opinion there is no single answer. You have to find out what your particular skills are and then apply the appropriate form. A lot of the mainstream and modern martial arts are competition based. (Good on a mat, not in the street) Being involved in an actual street fight takes more than just knowledge.

In a case where you are much smaller than your opponent you may have to maim disable or even kill him. Focus on Combat art forms. DO NOT think that you?re going to take Karate or Kung fu for 3 months or a year and dominate. I have seen more people earn a quick trip to the hospital that way.
The best answer is always to learn how to not fight. Any good traditional art form will teach you that. :2 cents:

This is very true of most Traditional Martial Arts. That's because most of them do not work in the modern world.

The few that do... Muay Thai, Wrestling, BJJ, boxing, and Judo all do because they rely on active alive resisting opponents.

Interresting: I told you we would end up talking about this sooner or later.
I agree with your statement somewhat. Traditional is a word that is very abused in the arts any more. SOME of the teachings that we see now are based on traditional forms but are taught untraditionally. They have been tainted for non combat use and compitition. Students are pushed through to achieve rank. There are quite a few good forms still lurking around they are just not in the public eye.

Hopefully he will find his path...

Im going to shut up now before I bore everyone to death :thumbsup

Jiu Jitsu by far.

Then again, I am biased...

try my kung-fu !...:1orglaugh

http://www.armyrecognition.com/Russe..._Russie_02.jpg

Running is the most effective martial arts.

That thing will take you as far as FINLAND.

Everybody that said Aikido in this thread should be pointed at and laughed at till the day they die (the day they rely on it in a life or death situation).

Seriously, most replies in this thread are useless.

Royce bitch slapping a kung fu guy.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=iZyeSScNH8Y

thread is over.

BJJ

Ahhh, the bug has bit you!!!

Another person to roll with at Bernie's!!!

I think what you're looking for is Wing Chun. It doesn't require you to be excessively strong or make karate-like kicks and superman moves. Very effective.

It's not a matter of which martial art is best, it's a matter of which martial arts suits you best.