New Iraq prime minister wants to pardon those who killed Americans

[mardigras]

Amnesty would be granted to insurgents who killed only Americans, not Iraqis. I'm sure this will be wonderful for the morale of our troops, especially those who have lost commrades. Bush admin is against it as they were when the provisional government tried it a couple years ago.
Iraqi leader proposes amnesty
Those who hit only US forces would be eligible

Al-Maliki is in the process of releasing all Iraqis that don't have Iraqi blood on their hands from Abu Ghraib by the end of the month.
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...-PRISONERS.xml

[gooddomains]

aha.........

[notabook]

*claps* What a great move by the Iraqi prime minister. Maybe now America can pack up it's shit and go the fuck home, officially no reason to stay now. Civil war is just around the corner... let god sort it out.

[Scott McD]

Originally Posted by gooddomains

aha.........

Your posts are getting a pain in the ass now...

[Manowar]

sounds like it's fucked

[mardigras]

Originally Posted by Manowar

sounds like it's fucked

CNN Pipeline is reporting that the US death toll has reached 2,500...

[biftek]

[sarcasm]oh yeah totally fucked [/sarcasm]
don't worry about the fact that a country is invading you , don't worry about the fact that its kill or be killed

[Tdog]

I guess sadam's friends are in power now.

[extreme]

If you invade a country you can't really expect the citizens of that country to punish those who kill the invaders.

Most of them have no doubt killed iraqis also so it's a pretty moot point.

[$5 submissions]

Except for the Kurds, I don't know how much of a "government" the new Iraqi "government" is...... ie., how many people follow their mandate outside of the secure "Green Zone" in Baghdad. Is this another carpetbagger govt brought in to establish 'democracy' (see Afghanistan's Karzai govt)

[mardigras]

Originally Posted by biftek

don't worry about the fact that a country is invading you , don't worry about the fact that its kill or be killed

Well, it's not exactly kill or be killed... they chose to take up arms for whatever reason.

[Martin]

People have a right to defend themselves.. You wouldn't take up arms if a outside Country came into America to "liberate" you?

[pussyluver]

Originally Posted by Martin

People have a right to defend themselves.. You wouldn't take up arms if a outside Country came into America to "liberate" you?

A Canadian with a gun? Now that IS a scary thought. Maybe a FleshLight!

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by mardigras

Well, it's not exactly kill or be killed... they chose to take up arms for whatever reason.

For whatever reason? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say just maybe its because a large foreign army invaded their sovereign nation.

If another country decided that the Bush govt was corrupt (I know, its purely fantasy) and invaded the USA to lift the shackles of oppression, don't you think people would rise up to defend their country?

[mardigras]

Originally Posted by Martin

People have a right to defend themselves.. You wouldn't take up arms if a outside Country came into America to "liberate" you?

Depends on why they came to liberate America.

[mardigras]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

For whatever reason? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say just maybe its because a large foreign army invaded their sovereign nation.

If another country decided that the Bush govt was corrupt (I know, its purely fantasy) and invaded the USA to lift the shackles of oppression, don't you think people would rise up to defend their country?

When I said "for whatever reason", it was to encompass all of them. Not all of them are fighting because "a large foreign army invaded their sovereign nation". Many are fighting purely because their religion teaches them of the great Jihad and they want to be the generation.

It's not the same comparing Bush to Sadaam. If somehow Bush got permanent dictatorship power and killed his opposers then you could make the comparison of someone coming to "liberate" America. We get a chance to "liberate" ourselves every 4 years, lazy voters and hackable paperless voting machines notwithstanding.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by mardigras

When I said "for whatever reason", it was to encompass all of them. Not all of them are fighting because "a large foreign army invaded their sovereign nation". Many are fighting purely because their religion teaches them of the great Jihad and they want to be the generation.

It's not the same comparing Bush to Sadaam. If somehow Bush got permanent dictatorship power and killed his opposers then you could make the comparison of someone coming to "liberate" America. We get a chance to "liberate" ourselves every 4 years, lazy voters and hackable paperless voting machines notwithstanding.

Your all-encompassing statement doesn't hold true though. Many of them are fighting against the invaders. And yes, many others are fighting everything that moves. Muslims are fighting Muslims purely because of opportunity provided.

By western standards its not the same comparing Bush to Saddam, but thats a pretty one-sided opinion. Democracy isn't the end-all be-all of political systems. There are many people (right or wrong isn't the issue) in the world see it as an evil. Step back 20 years and imagine the USSR invading (memories of Red Dawn) to force communism on the USA because it was their idea of the best solution to end 'democratic corruption'.

If you were told today that the USA would be invaded, many of your friends and family would die, but the USA would be a better place 20-30 years from now because of it, would that offer much consolation? I'd pretty sure you'd be out in the street throwing everything including the kitchen sink at the invaders.

My point here isn't to shit on the United States. The point I am making is that there are people who truly believe they are Iraqi freedom fighters attacking the invading.

[dynastoned]

of course he does... you would probably do the same if some insurgents told you to do so for fear of you and your family being killed.

[mardigras]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

Your all-encompassing statement doesn't hold true though. Many of them are fighting against the invaders. And yes, many others are fighting everything that moves. Muslims are fighting Muslims purely because of opportunity provided.

That's what I meant by "for whatever reason". There are many reasons they are fighting, and you said, "purely because of opportunity provided"... I bet that's a much bigger percentage than most people would think.

Senator Joe Biden says a federal/state system would allow them to work out many of the things they fight over regionally while allowing the government to concentrate on it's job.

I agree with your later comments

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by mardigras

That's what I meant by "for whatever reason". There are many reasons they are fighting, and you said, "purely because of opportunity provided"... I bet that's a much bigger percentage than most people would think.

I definately would agree with that. Along with that is the unfortunate reality that there are many non-Iraqi fighters stirring up the hornet's nest.

Its easy for me to comment from my comfortable home far away from the problem, but I think they really need to work on border security and start blowing the shit out of anyone/thing crossing the border in to Iraq at strange hours. There is absolutely no good reason to be sneaking in to a country that is war zone at any time of the day. The people they want to label as terrorists are non-Iraqis fighting the US troops in Iraq.

[Antonio]

hm, usually when people defend their countries they don't need to be pardoned, they're heroes by default

[mardigras]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

I think they really need to work on border security and start blowing the shit out of anyone/thing crossing the border in to Iraq at strange hours. There is absolutely no good reason to be sneaking in to a country that is war zone at any time of the day.

Let's just hope that the US govt. is better at teaching how to build a doghouse than actually building one

[directfiesta]

When France was liberated, the resistance was given the possibilty of incorporating in the army: they were heroes, celebrated by the whole population.
They were involved in the liberation of south of France with the american troops...

Nazis called them " guerilla " ( same as insurgents, terrorists, etc ... )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Resistance

[Splum]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Nazis called them " guerilla " ( same as insurgents, terrorists, etc ... ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Resistance

guerilla: member of an irregular, usually indigenous military or paramilitary unit operating in small bands in occupied territory to harass and undermine the enemy, as by surprise raids.

insurgent: 1. Rising in revolt against established authority, especially a government. 2. Rebelling against the leadership of a political party.

terrorist: One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism.

[Why]

iam still with the thought that we should have made the whole country a lake of glass.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Splum

guerilla: member of an irregular, usually indigenous military or paramilitary unit operating in small bands in occupied territory to harass and undermine the enemy, as by surprise raids.

insurgent: 1. Rising in revolt against established authority, especially a government. 2. Rebelling against the leadership of a political party.

terrorist: One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism.

lol ... really clogged up, ain't you ?

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by mardigras

Senator Joe Biden says a federal/state system would allow them to work out many of the things they fight over regionally while allowing the government to concentrate on it's job.

I would have to say that he obviously doesnt know the history of Iraq - since that is the system they had up until we started meddling in their affairs back in the late 70s and 80s and got Saddam installed (with our support of course - both financially and militarily) - most of the politicians have no clue that everything we are touting about in Iraq is what we destroyed there 25 years ago - since they were a full blown democracy at that time

[mardigras]

Originally Posted by Why

iam still with the thought that we should have made the whole country a lake of glass.

We would have had to make numerous countries lakes of glass simultaneously to get away with that

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by mardigras

Amnesty would be granted to insurgents who killed only Americans, not Iraqis. I'm sure this will be wonderful for the morale of our troops, especially those who have lost commrades. Bush admin is against it as they were when the provisional government tried it a couple years ago.
Iraqi leader proposes amnesty
Those who hit only US forces would be eligible

Al-Maliki is in the process of releasing all Iraqis that don't have Iraqi blood on their hands from Abu Ghraib by the end of the month.
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...-PRISONERS.xml

makes perfect political sense. local people have a right to fight against an invading force and if the shoe was on the other foot and nazi's invaded your precious town of Mouse Fart, Indiana - you would feel a little differently about the invading troops "morale"

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Splum

guerilla: member of an irregular, usually indigenous military or paramilitary unit operating in small bands in occupied territory to harass and undermine the enemy, as by surprise raids.

insurgent: 1. Rising in revolt against established authority, especially a government. 2. Rebelling against the leadership of a political party.

terrorist: One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism.

You should realize you just proved his point. The American military even admits that large numbers of the men they are fighting against are old Iraq Army.

I'm not sure if you watch PBS at all, Frontline had an episode imbedded with some. So effectively many of them are guerilla units.

[Matt 26z]

You can call them insurgents all you want, but the bottom line is they are just Iraqi citizens trying to protect their country from an invading force.

If China invaded the US, would the US government hold US citizens responsible for killing the invading Chinese?

It sucks that our guys are over there having to fight off non-military Iraqi's, but that's the way it goes. When you invade another country you are potentially against the ENTIRE country, not just their military.

[mardigras]

Originally Posted by Linkster

I would have to say that he obviously doesnt know the history of Iraq - since that is the system they had up until we started meddling in their affairs back in the late 70s and 80s and got Saddam installed (with our support of course - both financially and militarily) - most of the politicians have no clue that everything we are touting about in Iraq is what we destroyed there 25 years ago - since they were a full blown democracy at that time

I'm betting that the senator knows his history fine, he was responding to the question of what he thought would progress things in Iraq now.

Your last comment is dead-on though, GW was on TV day before yesterday saying Iraqis needed electricity... like it didn't exist there before the invasion.