In God We Trust

[aico]

There was a lawsuit trying to get In God We Trust taken off of all US Currency. It was of course thrown out of court (hello religion runs this country).

I personal am not offended by it being on there, but I also think that Religion has no place in Gov't. I am also 100% against religion, except for the few religions that are more about personal growth and not about grouping the masses to believe in some stupid story book.

Starting today, more to see if this fad catches on, then really to rebel, I will be taking a Sharpie marker and crossing out In God We Trust on all my money.

Who's with me?

[Linkster]

Actually - most of the framers of the original Constitution were against any religious influence in the new republic they were creating - thats why they specifically made only two references to religion and both were exclusionary against religious infraction into government

The words "in god we trust" were added to money after the civil war by some religious zealots in power at the time - up until then most people understood the separation clause of the Constitution. Its gone downhill since then.

[GatorB]

LAso unde God wasn't added to the pledge until the 1950's by Congress, in which by that time the Godless pedge was over 60 years old. Besides religion also brings up the point in which part of the Constitution did the government get the right to change someones work of art? So if in 50 yeas some future Congress wants to change the ending to the movie ET, they can?

[p1mpdogg]

am i the onl;y mother fucker on here that understands and accepts that our goverment can do whatever the fuck it wants to constitution or no constitution?

get real. spend more time pushing porn and less time worrying about things out of your control.

you WILL live longer.

[minusonebit]

There is always http://www.libertydollar.org, which does not include the slogan IIRC.

[madawgz]

yeah, take it off the money that would be great!

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Actually - most of the framers of the original Constitution were against any religious influence in the new republic they were creating - thats why they specifically made only two references to religion and both were exclusionary against religious infraction into government

The words "in god we trust" were added to money after the civil war by some religious zealots in power at the time - up until then most people understood the separation clause of the Constitution. Its gone downhill since then.

There is NO SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IN THE CONSTITUTION! Please find it if there is, and link us. Get tired of that fuckin falacy.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by madawgz

yeah, take it off the money that would be great!

Your from Canada go borrow some money to bet that you dont have.

[L0rdJuni0r]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerzdotnet

Your from Canada go borrow some money to bet that you dont have.

oooooooooooooo

[The Truth Hurts]

Defacement of Currency

Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

Defacement of currency in such a way that it is made unfit for circulation comes under the jurisdiction of the United States Secret Service. Their mailing address is:

United States Secret Service
950 H Street, NW
Washington, DC 20223.

The United States Secret Service web address is http://www.secretservice.gov

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerzdotnet

There is NO SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IN THE CONSTITUTION! Please find it if there is, and link us. Get tired of that fuckin falacy.

First off - I dont believe I used those words - however I guess the framers had a different idea than you obviously:

"The 1st Amendment's says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . ." and in Article VI, Section 3, ". . . no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

Thomas Jefferson interpreted the 1st Amendment in his famous letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in January 1, 1802:


"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."

Some Religious activists try to extricate the concept of separation between church and State by claiming that those words do not occur in the Constitution. Indeed they do not, but neither does it exactly say "freedom of religion," yet the First Amendment implies both"

[coolegg2]

Penn and Teller's "The Bible is Bullshit" - it's good stuff.

[Linkster]

To add just an observation - one would only have to take a walk around any city in the US to see that the separation of church and state not only exists but has primarily worked - you will see churches of many denominations, as well as temples, shrines etc - so obviously the separation is there

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by Linkster

First off - I dont believe I used those words - however I guess the framers had a different idea than you obviously:

"The 1st Amendment's says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . ." and in Article VI, Section 3, ". . . no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

Thomas Jefferson interpreted the 1st Amendment in his famous letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in January 1, 1802:


"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."

Some Religious activists try to extricate the concept of separation between church and State by claiming that those words do not occur in the Constitution. Indeed they do not, but neither does it exactly say "freedom of religion," yet the First Amendment implies both"

The letter was to assure the CHURCH that there would not be a national religion forcing only one Church. And you left out the important portion of the 1st amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Its that Congress WILL NOT MAKE A LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION!

[masterporndude]

Originally Posted by p1mpdogg

am i the onl;y mother fucker on here that understands and accepts that our goverment can do whatever the fuck it wants to constitution or no constitution?

get real. spend more time pushing porn and less time worrying about things out of your control.

you WILL live longer.

No I am full aware that they can and do whatever the fuck they want.
Constitution, whatb the hell is that anyway couldnt find it in the dictionary anymore.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by Linkster

To add just an observation - one would only have to take a walk around any city in the US to see that the separation of church and state not only exists but has primarily worked - you will see churches of many denominations, as well as temples, shrines etc - so obviously the separation is there

You say its there... What does that have to do with whats ACTUALLY IN THE CONSTITUTION? And the fact that there are different denominations has nothing to do with a blurb that Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter to a Church. The reason the First amendment was written that way was, to ensure that we didnt become another England with forced religion, and no freedom to practice different religions without persecution. Stop throwing out half truths and trying to blur the reality of what is.

[SgtStrider]

wow does it really matter? does it really fucking offend you that see it there is breaking your heart? come now, its money it comes and goes. well at least they took the "under god" in the pledge of allegence, happy about that?

[E$_manager]

[/QUOTE]

Starting today, more to see if this fad catches on, then really to rebel, I will be taking a Sharpie marker and crossing out In God We Trust on all my money.

Who's with me? [/QUOTE]

i agree, no place for religion in money

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerzdotnet

You say its there... What does that have to do with whats ACTUALLY IN THE CONSTITUTION? And the fact that there are different denominations has nothing to do with a blurb that Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter to a Church. The reason the First amendment was written that way was, to ensure that we didnt become another England with forced religion, and no freedom to practice different religions without persecution. Stop throwing out half truths and trying to blur the reality of what is.

Maybe you missed my point - the framers of the constitution knew the drawbacks and dangers of mixing religion with government - so they intentionally left out any reference to a specific religion - to ensure a totally secular way of life in the laws of the US - many Christian "fundamentalists" try to claim that our laws are based on a Christian way of life, but they are just misinterpreting and using the Declaration of Independence from Britain as their justification - they fail to mention that the God referred to in that document is the God of Nature (since most of the framers were of the deists philosophy - not Christians - it had a totally different meaning at that time).

All of this was explained later on by the Treaty of Tripoli in the late 1700s which detailed in Article 11 exactly what the intention of the framers was.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by SgtStrider

wow does it really matter? does it really fucking offend you that see it there is breaking your heart? come now, its money it comes and goes. well at least they took the "under god" in the pledge of allegence, happy about that?

Umm no they didnt.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Maybe you missed my point - the framers of the constitution knew the drawbacks and dangers of mixing religion with government - so they intentionally left out any reference to a specific religion - to ensure a totally secular way of life in the laws of the US - many Christian "fundamentalists" try to claim that our laws are based on a Christian way of life, but they are just misinterpreting and using the Declaration of Independence from Britain as their justification - they fail to mention that the God referred to in that document is the God of Nature (since most of the framers were of the deists philosophy - not Christians - it had a totally different meaning at that time).

All of this was explained later on by the Treaty of Tripoli in the late 1700s which detailed in Article 11 exactly what the intention of the framers was.

Your information is faulty. If you want to continue Ill take time to show you your errors. You havent been right yet, not sure why you are still going on this.

[E$_manager]

marking the money is a rough idea. but still...

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerzdotnet

Your information is faulty. If you want to continue Ill take time to show you your errors. You havent been right yet, not sure why you are still going on this.

please do - and please show references as I know the Treaty was signed by G Washington and enacted by Adams in 1797 - and specifically states that the US was NOT founded under Christian religious foundations - since they were specifically dealing with a Muslim state at the time

And treaties of the US are specifically guaranteed and backed by the Constitution of the US as law

[coolegg2]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerzdotnet

There is NO SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IN THE CONSTITUTION! Please find it if there is, and link us. Get tired of that fuckin falacy.

Bullshit. It's just like Linkster said, but you ignored his point.

Originally Posted by Linkster

Some Religious activists try to extricate the concept of separation between church and State by claiming that those words do not occur in the Constitution. Indeed they do not, but neither does it exactly say "freedom of religion," yet the First Amendment implies both.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Sounds like seperation of church and state to me... and to most Americans of the last 200 years. You are way out there if you really contend that "There is NO SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IN THE CONSTITUTION"

[minusonebit]

Originally Posted by The Truth Hurts

Defacement of Currency

Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

Defacement of currency in such a way that it is made unfit for circulation comes under the jurisdiction of the United States Secret Service. Their mailing address is:

United States Secret Service
950 H Street, NW
Washington, DC 20223.

The United States Secret Service web address is http://www.secretservice.gov

Hurry, report me before I finish scratching it out on every bill in my wallet. I also have a stamper that has my website URL on it that I stamp money with before I spend it when I am bored.

[notabook]

Our US money is starting to look really shitty -- look how close it's being to resembling faggy european money. We need to go back to fucking gold and silver if they don't stop printing more colors on our green bucks, or better yet we need to create a whole new currency based off of real doll parts. Want two new tires for your suv? That'll cost you an arm and a leg! A REAL DOLL arm an a leg.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Maybe you missed my point -

It's a pattern .. he misses quite a few ...

meanwhile, this is

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by Linkster

please do - and please show references as I know the Treaty was signed by G Washington and enacted by Adams in 1797 - and specifically states that the US was NOT founded under Christian religious foundations - since they were specifically dealing with a Muslim state at the time

And treaties of the US are specifically guaranteed and backed by the Constitution of the US as law

Interesting here was Washingtons speech 1 week after the first amendment was written.

"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor . . ."2 The words "to obey His will"

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by coolegg2

Bullshit. It's just like Linkster said, but you ignored his point.



Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Sounds like seperation of church and state to me... and to most Americans of the last 200 years. You are way out there if you really contend that "There is NO SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IN THE CONSTITUTION"

SHOW ME WHERE THE CONSTITUTION SAYS "NO SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE" It does not.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

It's a pattern .. he misses quite a few ...

meanwhile, this is

Another Canadian, get the FOOK out of the thread eh?. None of this is your interest.

[nikki99]

stryper!!!

[minusonebit]

Originally Posted by minusonebit

Hurry, report me before I finish scratching it out on every bill in my wallet. I also have a stamper that has my website URL on it that I stamp money with before I spend it when I am bored.

Opps, too late.

[ObnoxiousBitch]

Originally Posted by minusonebit

Hurry, report me before I finish scratching it out on every bill in my wallet. I also have a stamper that has my website URL on it that I stamp money with before I spend it when I am bored.

with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued

Defacement of currency in such a way that it is made unfit for circulation


Sharpie away with impugnity... or get a stamp like one (or more) of the guys on the restorethepledge.com forum There's any number of facts and discussions about this topic over there if anyone cares to educate themselves about this "minor" issue.

[coolegg2]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerzdotnet

SHOW ME WHERE THE CONSTITUTION SAYS "NO SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE"

You are forcing me to repeat myself.

Originally Posted by Coolegg

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Sounds like seperation of church and state to me... and to most Americans of the last 200 years. You are way out there if you really contend that "There is NO SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IN THE CONSTITUTION"

[aico]

Originally Posted by The Truth Hurts

Defacement of Currency

Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

Defacement of currency in such a way that it is made unfit for circulation comes under the jurisdiction of the United States Secret Service. Their mailing address is:

United States Secret Service
950 H Street, NW
Washington, DC 20223.

The United States Secret Service web address is http://www.secretservice.gov

So I guess everytime stores use one of those black pens to see if the bill is counterfeit the should get fined and imprisoned?

Give me a break... I am sooooo scared.

Keep marking the bills, as they get bank to the back, and have IN God We Trust crossed out on them, the banks will send them in to be destroyed... when enough bills are getting destroyed, cuz the fad catches on... maybe they will take notice.

[aico]

LOL, back to the bank, not bank to the back...

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by coolegg2

You are forcing me to repeat myself.

Repeat what? Your idiocy? lmao Until you find ANYWHERE in the constitution that says anything about a seperation of Church and state you are wrong. And I guarantee you will not find anything in the constitution about it.

[bobbyjuly]

After all those junk threads, this one is something worth reading.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by aico

So I guess everytime stores use one of those black pens to see if the bill is counterfeit the should get fined and imprisoned?

Give me a break... I am sooooo scared.

Keep marking the bills, as they get bank to the back, and have IN God We Trust crossed out on them, the banks will send them in to be destroyed... when enough bills are getting destroyed, cuz the fad catches on... maybe they will take notice.

Wouldnt your point get put forward faster if you just burn down some Churches, and murder Christians?

[aico]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerzdotnet

Wouldnt your point get put forward faster if you just burn down some Churches, and murder Christians?

Um, if my point was that churches shouldn't stand and Christians shouldn't live ya.

But, actually, my point is that my Gov't shouldn't put statement on my money that I do not hold to be true. I do not trust in God. I do no believe in God. So to say "In God We Trust" is not true, unless you are seperating me from the "we". To say we are "One Nation Under God" is not true, I am not under God, therefore I must not be part of the Nation that they speak of.

You can have your churches and believe in your God all you want, I don't care, just don't represent me as a person who is the same as you.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by aico

Um, if my point was that churches shouldn't stand and Christians shouldn't live ya.

But, actually, my point is that my Gov't shouldn't put statement on my money that I do not hold to be true. I do not trust in God. I do no believe in God. So to say "In God We Trust" is not true, unless you are seperating me from the "we". To say we are "One Nation Under God" is not true, I am not under God, therefore I must not be part of the Nation that they speak of.

You can have your churches and believe in your God all you want, I don't care, just don't represent me as a person who is the same as you.

Nah at the root of it I think you would love to see Chritianity and Christians gone. Otherwise it would not bother you so much.

[aico]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerzdotnet

Nah at the root of it I think you would love to see Chritianity and Christians gone. Otherwise it would not bother you so much.

Typical Christian tactic telling me what I think. I can think for myself thank you. Which is my main reason for not being religious. It doesn't bother me at all actually, I find it amusing to cross out In God We Trust. I am sure it will piss of many people, more than it has any effect on me. It's already working on you.

I repeat again, I don't care what other people do, believe in or whatever. Just don't represent me as being part of a group I am not. I don't care if someone wants to be a Christian, a Budhist, a Satanist, a Pagan, or whatever they want. Just as long as they keep it to themselves.

Unfortuntately, Christianity, and forms of it, are the only ones you will see people on street corners telling other people what they think, knocking on doors, telling people how they should act, what they should believe, and if they don't then I will burn in hell.

Frankly, I would rather burn in hell than be up in heaven with most of the wackos who are on street corners preaching.

I have never had a Budhist come up to me and say "You will be tortured for eternity if you do not give yourself to Budha"... I have never heard of a Satanist say "Let go to their countries, kill all their leaders, and convert them to Satanism" I have never seen any wars started over Taoism, why is it that I have heard all of these things about Christians? Not really a group of people I want to be associated with.

Christianity is based on scare tactics, either believe in it, or suffer a terrible fate. Most Christians don't even follow their own stupid rules, so it is one gigantic hippocracy, which makes me laugh even more at them.

You say and believe what ever you want & I'll keep on crossing out In God We Trust on my money.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by aico

Typical Christian tactic telling me what I think. I can think for myself thank you. Which is my main reason for not being religious. It doesn't bother me at all actually, I find it amusing to cross out In God We Trust. I am sure it will piss of many people, more than it has any effect on me. It's already working on you.

I repeat again, I don't care what other people do, believe in or whatever. Just don't represent me as being part of a group I am not. I don't care if someone wants to be a Christian, a Budhist, a Satanist, a Pagan, or whatever they want. Just as long as they keep it to themselves.

Unfortuntately, Christianity, and forms of it, are the only ones you will see people on street corners telling other people what they think, knocking on doors, telling people how they should act, what they should believe, and if they don't then I will burn in hell.

Frankly, I would rather burn in hell than be up in heaven with most of the wackos who are on street corners preaching.

I have never had a Budhist come up to me and say "You will be tortured for eternity if you do not give yourself to Budha"... I have never heard of a Satanist say "Let go to their countries, kill all their leaders, and convert them to Satanism" I have never seen any wars started over Taoism, why is it that I have heard all of these things about Christians? Not really a group of people I want to be associated with.

Christianity is based on scare tactics, either believe in it, or suffer a terrible fate. Most Christians don't even follow their own stupid rules, so it is one gigantic hippocracy, which makes me laugh even more at them.

You say and believe what ever you want & I'll keep on crossing out In God We Trust on my money.

No I told you what I think.

Oh and btw bet you have never had Harry Christnas? Sp is terribly bad lol, come over and try and convert you? How bout scientologists?

[aico]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerzdotnet

No I told you what I think.

Oh and btw bet you have never had Harry Christnas? Sp is terribly bad lol, come over and try and convert you? How bout scientologists?

If asking me to buy a book at the airport was tryign to convert me, then yes.

If asking me if I wanted to take a personality test every day I walked by their headquarters on Hollywood Blvd. Then sure they tried to convert me.

But when I said "No Thank you" they left and went on about their business.

But if my 20 dollar bill said "In Xenu We Trust" I would have a problem with that.

[ObnoxiousBitch]

I have to make a few more posts before I can post a picture of the new Shane's World contract girl for you guys...

and since this is an argument I'm QUITE familiar with, it would amuse me to watch it play out once again. Please do carry on; and in the spirit of civility a few citations here and there would do wonders.

[coolegg2]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerzdotnet

Repeat what? Your idiocy? lmao Until you find ANYWHERE in the constitution that says anything about a seperation of Church and state you are wrong. And I guarantee you will not find anything in the constitution about it.

Can you not read?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Okay let me spell it out for you, although I suspect you are just pretending to be stupid...

How can you have a mixing of church and state that doesn't infringe on the free exercise of one or more of the many religions in America?

For example let's say we want to put the ten commandments up in a court room. Okay. But which ten commandments? The Catholic ones? the Jewish ones? The protestant ones? Which version of the third commandment do we use? How can you post the ten commandments and not infringe on someone's free exercise of a religion that doesn't believe the ten commandments are the word of god? How can you post a version of the ten commandments and not effectively establish that religion as the prevalent one?

Almost every Supreme Court of the last 225 years has interpretted the First Amendment as a seperation between church and state. If you feel otherwise then you really are way out there on the fringe.

So don't tell me that the concept of seperation of church and state is not in the US Constitution - it's right there - the Supreme Court says it is. Even if you wish to interpret the First Amendment differently, then you are still wrong, because the First Amendment means whatever the Supreme Court historically says it means.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by coolegg2

Can you not read?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Okay let me spell it out for you, although I suspect you are just pretending to be stupid...

How can you have a mixing of church and state that doesn't infringe on the free exercise of one or more of the many religions in America?

For example let's say we want to put the ten commandments up in a court room. Okay. But which ten commandments? The Catholic ones? the Jewish ones? The protestant ones? Which version of the third commandment do we use? How can you post the ten commandments and not infringe on someone's free exercise of a religion that doesn't believe the ten commandments are the word of god? How can you post a version of the ten commandments and not effectively establish that religion as the prevalent one?

Almost every Supreme Court of the last 225 years has interpretted the First Amendment as a seperation between church and state. If you feel otherwise then you really are way out there on the fringe.

So don't tell me that the concept of seperation of church and state is not in the US Constitution - it's right there - the Supreme Court says it is. Even if you wish to interpret the First Amendment differently, then you are still wrong, because the First Amendment means whatever the Supreme Court historically says it means.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Yawn

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.


So now its a concept of seperation of church and state ? As I said over and over show me where it says Seperation of Church and state. It does not.

Why do they STILL have prayer everyday in the Senate just as they have since the first session of congress? Hmm

[3M TA3]

I've seen National Treasure, that makes me an expert

[GatorB]

Here's the best way to deal with stickyfingers

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/profil...ignore&u=64233

[coolegg2]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerzdotnet

Yawn
Why do they STILL have prayer everyday in the Senate just as they have since the first session of congress? Hmm

That's the best reply you can come up with?!?

I take what I said back. You weren't pretending to be stupid, you really are.