IPv6 is a pipe dream. It's NEVER going to happen on a global scale.

IPs are an upsale for hosting companies. In todays terms many hosting companies try and undercut each other and sell incredible, fully managed dedicated servers for SUB $100 Per Month. I have seen companies offer FULL 100MBPS Unmetered Servers, Dual Xeon 2.8ghz, 1 gig Ram, 1x300gig SATA HDD for $199/month. FULLY MANAGED!!!!! How can a company profit there? Well, charging $XX amount per month for IPs, Monitoring, "off hours time". Not to mention they are in Ghetto Colo's anyway. Some maybe running off Verizon Fios or DSL in a basement somewhere :)

There is no way for a hosting company to profit there. Now, build someone a decent server (decent as in 2.4ghz p4, 1 gig ram, 80-150gig HDD, 1000 gig bandwidth) for $100-$120 per month with IP's as needed (per ARIN rules) and you tend to make a decent profit off of the initial sale. You don't need to "nickle-n-dime" your customers. Customers hate that.

You also don't need to be greedy. Something that hosting companies tend to get. I co-founded Tear2 as a second hosting company (my first one I founded in 1997 and sold in 2000) for the basic reason that hosting companies nowadays are too bent on over-charging, nick-n-diming, and flat out scamming their customers. I am a strong advocate for providing a good service thats decently priced (not under or over priced) and just being nice to people. Growing a business like that tends to lead happier clients, which leads to more clients :)

Jim

love that sig mr chris

its pretty pathetic that people dont understand the concept of supply and demand.

:hi nice of you to swing by and make a statement

Great response :thumbsup

i can make you a kewl banner for a few bucks as well see sig :thumbsup I'm crazy

Thanks :) thought I would add my comment once I got a feel for what everyone else was saying.

Jim

yeah . . . . well . . .

Also, I think that this discussion leads back to the way hosting companies are nowadays, and the way they treat their customers. I have actually given out less IPs because I give them away per ARIN justification. Why? Because I take the time to ask people, why do you need this IP? 9 times out of 10 the customer realizes that he doesn't need the IP, and when you realize the person does require it for a nameserver or something like that, then they rightfully deserve it.

Alot of hosting companies try and push the IP space as a neccessity because they make an additional $x per month off of it. Where as we at Tear2 have actually used far less IPs because we take the time to explain to our customers what IPs are and why they may or may not need them.

It all leads back to your customer support, and how far you are going to do to please a customer.

Jim

50 bucks for 50 IPs

I honestly didn't even think of it like that, but it's a good point. :thumbsup

That is exactly what most other said, including myself ...

I specified a dedicated box with 5 IP's :

- 2 name servers
- one main shared IP
- one for SSL
- a spare one for 2nd SSL or others...

Nobody invented the weel here ....

On the other hand, on a virtual account :

- mainstream, they don't ask for an IP so they are on a shared one ( up to 200 accounts )
- Adult, I can supply if required. On some occasions, when the client is " insisting" , I will throw it in

It would be interesting to hear what do you answer someone that request 60 IP's for SEO?? or for per domain hosting?

This is NOT something justifiable under ARIN rules.

Additionally, and more to the point, the reason most hosting companies do this, is that a lot of people who want a lot of IPs, are just flat out spamming....

But of course, there is quite an administrative overhead - ARIN rules are VERY specific about what IPs can and can't be used for to be "justified" - and each IP has to be documented and valid when you go to ask for more, or they're going to tell you no.

ARIN is not a rubber stamping agency, they're incredibly picky and finicky - managing the allocations and making sure you're meeting ARIN's requirement is not a cost-free item.

Regards,
Sam

While you may know hosting, you don't know SEO.

Yeah, I was thinking about this very thing while I was in the shower. I wonder how many companies that are "giving away" IP's are giving shared IP's.

I honestly don't think you do as well. You think because you have racks at a few varous hosting companies (OC3, etc), and can provide multiple Class-C's you know shit about SEO. I bet one ABP install and a newbie could outrank you.

Ip's are not free. Whoever told you that is lying to you.

On virtual servers this is possible, but not on dedicated servers. Tear2 dedicated servers are awesome.

If you knew a thing about SEO you wouldn't be on GFY spamming "seo hosting" - you'd be making real money. Theres a reason you're nothing more than a middle-man and hosting rep. Fucking asshat.

There is an initial fee, yes, but that is similiar more towards management, not actually paying for IP's. Regardless, just what I have sent to Tear2 in terms of dedicated servers, in one year, pays for all their IP's with no problem. So nobody can honestly say it's not worth it.

Go to Google and type in SEO Host or SEO hosting and click I am feeling lucky.

And as hard as it may be for you to grasp, I am the co-owner/founder of GWH. I am not a middle man or a rep. That would be you.

only an initial fee huh? not actually paying for ip's?

You have no clue son.
Hate to break it to you, but paying $100 a month for a server does not make you a hosting guru.

seo host = 0 searches
seo hosting = 97 searches a month

i wouldnt be bragging about that.

Please justify this statement, as I have no clue how you arrived at that conclusion. Or even why this statement was said.

Jim

Since when am I rep or middle man? I have ownership in every business venture I'm involved with, sorry to burst your bubble old man. It's not my fault you're a washed up biker with crooked yellow teeth who can't afford a trip to the dentist.

I could give 2 shits about paying an extra buck a month or what not if the hosting is solid and the support is there.

I love the fact that you go around exclaiming that your the #1 SEO Host. And then I love it even more that you deem others of having No Clue about SEO.

Something I have realized about you and your nickname on GFY is that you are all talk and no backing. Your a glorified sig whore.

Jim

Exactly, and if you need that extra IP wouldn't it be great if you didnt have to pay the extra dollar, or even be bothered by another invoice for $1.00? It just allows you to deal with your business and not have to worry about web hosting.

Jim

BTW, straight from a co-owner: Nick (aka dissipate) has been with Tear2, LLC. from the beginning. Including Tear2Hosting and the upcoming Tear2Cash, so again, please do not make comments without previous knowledge.

Thanks!

Jim

No, you're right, but when I talk directly to several owners of large hosting companies, that helped me with this very issue, i think I know quite a bit.

97 searches a month, congrats.

Would you like me to steal the #1 ranking for that keyword from you?

http://www.wickedfreeporn.com/images/asshat.jpg

LOL! :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I love that pic!

Jim

Name names then...
No "large" hosting company is getting ip's for free.

That is of course if your definition of large is different than mine.

Haha.. another thread I shouldn't comment on.

Anyways, I'll try to stick to the facts.

#1. Hosting providers pay for IP's. This is a yearly maintenance fee (non-issue, $100), and an initial setup fee. ARIN's fee schedule is well known and published, so you can look this up yourself. The intial "setup fee" for a decent sized provider will be $4500, for up to a /16 of IP space (65534 IP's). However, due to the way ARIN allocates IP's you will typically be paying these initial setup fees as you grow, so it's somewhat more than what it looks like.

#2. Hosting providers pay for IP's in non-directly related expenses. This includes network complexity increases as space grows, creating coherent means to track IP allocations, and probably the most important - combining the above into reporting mechanisms in order to justify more IP space from ARIN (generally, for most providers, an extremely time consuming and annoying process). These costs vary from place to place of course, but I will make the leap of faith that no matter what provider - these costs far outweigh the relatively trivial ARIN expenses.

#3. More of a take on #2 - providers must make certain that they are allocating IP space per ARIN guidelines. Should they not, they will be unable to obtain further space. Since ARIN allocates space based on a 6 month usage projection, and assuming the provider is not gaming the system, this creates a HUGE problem and impedement to growth, moreso the smaller the provider (as 80% usage of a small number of IP's leaves FAR less space available during the application process than 80% usage of a huge number).

So.. providers SHOULD charge a small fee for space usage in on way or another. Some providers elect to charge per-IP (many in an effort to keep space use down, unrelated to "making bank" on said IP fees), and some simply build in cost in their product offerings for most average customers.

We (Reflected Networks) are somewhat the latter. IP's we see as a cost of doing business, and since our systems are fairly well integrated by now, as we've been around quite some time, they cost us much less in time and effort to keep track of. This translates into our policy of "free" IP's up to 256 for any dedicated customers, and after the initial /24 (256 IP's) we charge a $14.95/mo maintenance fee per /24 of usage. This policy generally means for 95% of our customer base IP's are provided at no extra charge. The other 5% generally are folks with /20 allocations or more.

Also, our policy of assigning IP's is that you can have one IP per site *if requested*. Currently, ARIN policy states that a domain name is ample justification for an IP's worth of usage - but you have to provide a reason why you're not using name based virtual hosting. Generally, obviously, this reason is almost always "SEO purposes". I could argue the merits of "multiple class C's!!!!!" being actually useful in SEO, but in our business the client is always right, and gets what they want :) Should ARIN policy change, and they have made rumblings of revisiting this policy area, we will obviously have to follow it (as will every other host in America, should they want to have IP's down the road).

So in summary. Yes, your host has direct and indirect costs involved with giving you additional IP's. Yes, some hosts use this as a profit center, some hosts do not. No, it is not likely a "huge money grab", and generally is a way to attempt to keep IP demand down. As always, find the host that bets fits *YOUR* needs!

-Phil

congrats to the winners?

Ok so what you're saying is that not only do you not want to pay for or create your own content.....you STEAL OTHER PEOPLE'S CONTENT (and then give them attitude when they call you on it)
You also need a unique IP address for each of the domains you publish your stolen content on and don't want to pay for the unique IP address either?

Maybe you'd like for the people you steal content from to pay your domain registration and bandwidth fees also so you can just pocket everything and not have any expenses?!?!??!

This thread is more amusing than the title might lead you think

Eh? Who are you and wtf are you talking about. Quit trolling in my thread thanks.