Jay,

what's going on with leaks has got to stop. its not whistle blowing, its undermining the government. We were listening to terrorist phone calls right up until it was leaked. people who leak classified info should be thrown in jail be they republican or democrat.

as far as the rights we've lost, we've lost nothing

"the right to be notified of a search" does not exist. "the right to protection against unreasonable searches and seizures" does.

Actually ALL information should be open to every citizen.

while i agree that the liberals have a lot of flaws and bad ideas, most of the people that vote republican have been completely duped into voting against their own interests.

religion has been used to trick the majority of conservatives into voting republican. they force the focus on minute, insignificant issues such as gay marriage and abortion to divide and conquor.

I completely agree that if classify info is leaked, whoever leaks it has to go to jail. Same applies to the Valerie Plame situation.

As for the "rights", if you limit your search for rights from the bill of rights being undermined by the patriot act, you'll have an easier time defending the patriot act, but "sneak and peaks", seizures without notification, secret prisons etc are limitations on your freedoms/protections. If the government doesn't abuse of its powers then there's no problem, but with such broad legislation, who's to say a Democrat president won't abuse the act and go after his political enemies for example?

I know you don't want to talk "what ifs", and it's fair enough. I'm just saying the potential for abuse is there, and that's why in my opinion, rights or freedoms or whatever you want to call it can be attacked by it.

come back when you finish school. the adults are talking now.

incorrect.

do you really think you live in a world where everyone who doesn't think like you has been duped?
thats pretty silly.

Awesome thread. If the comments on this thread were to be taken at face value and be representitive of the US population as a whole - the US is totally fucked as a country. Very sad.

What other nation has so many idiots? None. They are a complete embarassment to any nation.


PS Was not commenting on your post kandah - more on the spewage from retards.

I agree.

this I don't agree with. notification is irrelevant. you're talking about still going before a court, proving you have cause. notification of a criminal or suspect erodes NONE of your protections. its the judiciary they report to that is the protection. Also, there are no secret prisons for US citizens. I'm 100% ok with secret prisons for terrorists.

translation: knowing nothing about the subject, I'll just spew my "hate America" drivel. its what I do.

not everyone, just the middle/lower middle class, red state republican. (im from a red state btw) if you're in the upper class, it makes perfect sense to vote republican. tax breaks for all!

also, for reference, im neither liberal nor conservative. republican nor democrat. i have certain viewpoints that can coincide with both of those, and some that conflict with them both as well. so when i say what im saying, im not suggesting that everyone that doesnt believe the way i believe is wrong/stupid/has been tricked. im just saying that the republicans have hijacked religion as their tool to guarantee success, and a lot of people vote against their own financial interests because of that.

50........

Your favorite cliche is about others "hating America" - that bit is no surprise.

Learn the language idiot. The translation means "There appears to be an idiot born every millisecond in the US and gifted with the ability to talk shit at the expense of others".

Fortunately your bullshit does not represent that of your fellow countrymen.

as if you are anything other than a cliche.:1orglaugh
its gotta kill America haters to be laughed at.

no, this is what you said:
if you would like to restate it, thats fine.
Also, if as you believe people voted against their financial interests, they should be respected for having convictions and a better sense of right and wrong than the democrats who keep pulling the "hand outs for all" lever.

I really don<t care ... i do find it funny tough, from a freedom spreading country...

They can spy and each other, imprison each other, execute each other ... as long as they keep that shit inside their borders ...

It is their house, if they feel like trashing it, be my guest.. Just don't litter on my property.

Dream on in the pit of ignorance and arrogance :1orglaugh :thumbsup

I see the emergence of some new security products. Just more opportunities for gain. Paranoia is great sales leverage lol.

j/k (kinda)

but really, sad to see us sink deeper and deeper into public acceptance of big brotherhood

:/


FYI: I don't mind knowing that invasion of privacy has been going on for decades for mostly the right reasons and rarely the wrong ones...however the PUBLIC acceptance of it now is what's making me ill.

you're argueing with me as if im bashing all conservatives, and preaching liberal points of view from the mountain tops.

i think the current administration (which just so happens to be republican) has taken government corruption to a whole new level. i also think that most of the democrats are too scared of alienating voters like me (people that wont blindly vote for a person based on their party affiliation) that they wont stand up for their beliefs and call the shiesty republicans that are in office out on their bullshit.

so in short: republicans are crooks and liars and democrats are pussies and liars. death to politicians!!!

Oddly I kinda do care df. Got many good friends in the US and when you look at the complete fuckups (they are noteable and, hence a talking point, in comparison to any other westen countries), it makes ya grind teeth.

Some of these folks are miles above the sick US trolls on GFY and doing what can be described as "serving their country" at different levels. There is no perversity, hatred or political bullshit with em - makes ya feel sad for em when they are also defending/helping/serving the GFY scum.

arrogance? of course but the ignorance is all yours.:1orglaugh

you say this but you can't back it up with any facts.

here we go again with the whole,"if they don't think like me, they're just blindly following party lines"
I'm not sure how old you are but once you reach a certain age, your beliefs don't sway with every propped up politician that comes along. they're pretty much fixed.
I, for example, loath the tax the rich crowd and hate weakness. therefore, I'd rather vote for a do-er knowing some things done will not work out than vote for a clown who promises the poor "what they deserve" (read: other peoples money) and talks and talks and talks while our enemy gets stronger.

again, only YOU are man enoufgh to stand up to those that are wrong. (nice line putting yourself above the evil republicans and above those who won't stand against them.
how truly silly.

Gawd.. you are such a retard :uhoh

not bright enough to refute facts, the internt fool resorts to calling me a retard.:1orglaugh

I was never even in any discussion with you to consider your facts.

The only blantantly obvious thing, based on your posts, is that you are a retard.

That fact is not on the table for "refuting".

life is so simple for the clueless.:1orglaugh

Get a life and have a nice day :thumbsup

Does anyone ever read the source of the articles they put up? My god, 2 pages of arguing on an article written from a loony bin website.

of course not. if you had to post facts, the liberals here would be deathly silent:1orglaugh

I'm a moderate and I think if you want to bash Bush and his administration, there are plenty of other routes and sources you can use that don't come from PrisonPlanet.com.

Here's the freedom that has been lost. In case you haven't been keeping up on current events, "your president" and his attorney general have decided they can sidestep the FISA court because we are at war. Hows that for trampling on our rights. If memory serves FISA has only said no twice since they have been around, and they give the warrants within hours, not days.

Tell me what could be so urgent that they needed to sidestep the court that was created for just such instances. I'm sure it was for our benefit, gimme a fucking break.

If you say it's a war on terror long enough people just might believe it. My question is to you, who decides that the "war on terror" is over?

Here's more brilliance from Bush' choice for homeland security. They are cutting 40% from the budget of NYC terrorism task force.

Fucking brilliant! The largest attack in US history and these idiots decide to cut their budget, and give more to cities like Omaha Nebraska.

How can you people not see that the current administration are a den of fools. Christ, Chertoff himself is on tape saying he isn't qualified for the position he is in.

im done with this discussion. everything ive said has been completely taken out of context and had false accusations pinned to it.

you seem to have come to the conclusion that i am speaking against you, or your beliefs. id be willing to bet we agree on certain areas, and disagree on others. thats just the way things are.

while i respect your views and opinions, you choose to call mine "silly". i think that is a very poor way to carry on a debate or discussion, so i will refrain from doing so any further.

for the record: i dont have any ill feelings toward you, i respect your beliefs and opinions, and hope you have a wonderful day :D

Hang on there spanky! :winkwink: That's a bit aggressive!

Seriously.. sure they are, but not all are fools - they have an agenda, tho that prob does not include the welfare of the US. In any other western country - they'd be sacked.

I'd hate to be a witness to the actions of FEMA during this current hurricane season. Little doubts it's going to be another horror story. They are a total embarassment.

if you're done, fine but please lets not pretend I've taken anything out of context or falsly accused you of something.
If you feel you're not getting your true thoughts across, I suggest you spend more time thinking before writing.

I have no hard feelings towards you either but I still think some of your ideas are silly.
:winkwink:

as usual, the advocates for terrorist freedoms are mistaken.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=1537691
"""Internal Justice Department audits by the inspector general show that FISA warrants take anywhere from hours to weeks to get approved"""

again, no freedoms have been lost unless you're calling suspected terrorists outside of the country and if you are, I don't want your freedoms taken away, I want you dead.

:1orglaugh

LOL, the funny part all the GFY people outside the US are laughing at us and I don't think they realize the NSA is getting even more info in real-time on all your calls and transcations.

As prying as the US intel agencies are domestically its even more invasive with our external spying programs.

And most other world governments monitor their people's activities just as much or more so.

You just don't get it. You are so blinded by your faith in the republican party. It starts out with "we are only spying on calls from outside the US" then it moves to " we are only collecting records on every call in the US" where do you think it goes next. Little by little our privacy is being eroded, and you think that it's ok. Maybe it is you who should move, because from where I am sitting, I am the one that is the patriot looking out for you.

You like to take quotes out of context, so can I.

"Heckuva job Brownie"