PG, nastydollars and bangbros -shaving?

[longdongsilver]

Can anyone explain why pefect gonzo, nastydollars and bangbro's don't use nats or something like it?

I know NATS is expensive, but if much smaller companies can afford to use it surely these much larger programs could?

Not saying they do shave, but i don't like to think it is possible. Therefore i prefer to go with programs that have transparent 3rd party billing ie ccbill or that use NATS since i'd read that this should prevent shaving.

A few years ago when i used to promote pay per click programs there was a 3rd party stats handler called clickthroughcalvin.com or something like that.

I always wonder why there is not such a 3rd party that could be used by pay per sign up or partnership programs today. I know clicks would be easier than joins but still it must be possible.

Is there any other reason other than cost for programs not to use nats?
I know pg,nasty and bb probably don't shave sales and i'm not suggesting they do....but what could stop this happening and how could know you were getting shaved even if it was done by accident, like a glitch or something?

These are just questions i've never really pushed any of the programs that i mention so i've had no reason to believe they do shave.

[BoyAlley]

I don't see anything wrong with a program using a custom solution to meet their specific needs.

[pstation]

it's still very much possible to shave with nats....

[Sly]

The new system with Perfect Gonzo is insane. Its very good, tons of features. Nasty Dollars and BBO have proven systems as well.

Its kind of funny that you think people who don't use NATS are shaving. NATS is not the only quality system on the market, there are quite a few.

[Murderous]

I look at it like this... Some like chevy some like ford, they both have their good and bad qualities. I choose to buy the one I like. Just because everyone on the block has one, does not make me believe they are reputable.

Besides... anyone who believes that sponsors using the NATS software are not still shaving and/or stealing your money, well are just fools.

I never bought into that NATS shit, and noone will convince me otherwise. I am not saying that they don't make it harder to shave (or whatever their claims may be). I am saying that sponsors steal your money/traffic in more ways than one.

[Theo]

if you are satisfied with a platform you do not move on to another.

[polish_aristocrat]

new PERFECT GONZO rules, everyone sign up here !

[woj]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

I don't see anything wrong with a program using a custom solution to meet their specific needs.

and like pstation said, it's possible to shave with nats, the idea that it's not possible to shave with nats is just a marketing gimmick...

Originally Posted by longdongsilver

I know NATS is expensive, but if much smaller companies can afford to use it surely these much larger programs could?

You actually think the custom solutions these companies have in place is cheap?!

Your GFY nick shows that you've been here since 2003... You should know not to accuse, suggest or assume programs shave unless you have some evidence.

[Shoehorn!]

Originally Posted by Murderous

I am saying that sponsors steal your money/traffic in more ways than one.

Not all of them.

[Bro Media - BANNED FOR LIFE]

simple answer, don't promote them ;) if you think they COULD shave, then don't use them...

[BVF]

Originally Posted by longdongsilver

I know pg,nasty and bb probably don't shave sales and i'm not suggesting they do....

Then why does the thread title say, "PG, nastydollars and bangbros -shaving?"

[The Ghost]

I would never think a program shaved just because they didn't use NATS. I would think they shaved based on proof. It it was just a gut feeling, I would just drop them and move on. Plenty of programs available to promote. And alot of bigger programs use custom scripts because there are features they want that NATS doesn't have or it would be too much of a pain to change it. NATS hasn't been around forever,

There seems to be lots of ways sponsers can utilize affiliate traffic. Some ways are ethical and some really cross the line. The debate lies with what proper credit is exactly. And that does vary from affiliate to affiliate.

Many things have come to light recently and at least the information has made it to the masses. Things like sponsers overwriting affiliate cookies under certain circustances or revshare programs that only pay revshare for 2 weeks. Redirecting certain browsers or IP ranges to different sponsers without crediting the affiliate whatsoever.

Some affiliates could care less about shaving, as long as at the end of the day they are making more cash. Others would rather make a little less knowing the program was honest. But determining what makes a program 'honest' is subjective. I believe that as long as a program fully discloses their terms to affiliates they can run their business as they see fit. This is provided the program does not make it impossible to find this data by putting it in small print or completely ommitting it. Just like anything else, do some research on the company(s) you are going to promote. Talk with them on the phone and have a way to make sure your stats check out with what they should be. If things aren't right, call them on it and let them explain it to you. If it seems fishy, out 'em.

[woj]

Originally Posted by LOL :D

simple answer, don't promote them ;) if you think they COULD shave, then don't use them...

EVERY sponsor "could" shave, so who do you promote then?

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by longdongsilver

Is there any other reason other than cost for programs not to use nats?

Why should they use it? There are more programs to choose from, everyone has different features, some is better some worse, NATS is just one of them. Programs can shave even with NATS.

[CaptainHowdy]

I agree... programs with NATS make me feel more cozy at night.

[Shap]

Wow. Reading the original post was sad. I hope most affiliates don't have this train of thought. My best guess is the original poster is someone who gathers all their information from GFy. He truly hasn't been educated on how our industry works.

[VicD]

They don't need shaving if you ask me

[Murderous]

Originally Posted by Shoehorn!

Not all of them.

I bet I could count the programs that do not steal from you and I on one hand...

[Manowar]

Dont Nasty and BBO use X3 or monolith?

[David - PG]

Just some food for thought:

Any of the programs named above invest millions and millions of dollars in custom content, since years. Invested nights and countless hours of overtime developing systems and networks.

If you were running any of these programs, would you be so dumb to risk your entire business and the future of your employees (who might have families with kids in school etc.) by shaving your affiliates that you worked so hard to get in the first place?

Just put yourself in the sponsor's place and you get the right answers more often than not.

[Love Sex]

you should just quit now, you basiclly accuse them of shaving and dont even use them

[uw_killa]

nats sux
promote bfcash.com (great converting unique sites) and make tons of $$$ ;)

[TreasureBucks]

Nastydollars is good people. Nothing wrong with my stats or payouts

[Decadawn]

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

new PERFECT GONZO rules, everyone sign up here !

I'm 1:2500 with them this period. that rules?

[fuzebox]

Originally Posted by Decadawn

I'm 1:2500 with them this period. that rules?

Well they did just start showing 1st page uniques in addition to 2nd page, so if you're comparing them to previous periods that's probably why.

[BusterBunny]

Originally Posted by Murderous

I bet I could count the programs that do not steal from you and I on one hand...

I'm guessing you will be counting on your left...

[Goldmaniacs]

All programs shave. The ones that don't went bankrupt. Think about the huge costs invlove and see what paying you 35-40 for EACH AND EVERY sale works to for their bottom line.

[Nasty]

Originally Posted by Manowar

Dont Nasty and BBO use X3 or monolith?

Yea, I was thinking X3, shit, I can only wish that just one of the nats sites I promoted did half as good conversion wise as I get on nasty dollars

[The Ghost]

Originally Posted by Goldmaniacs

All programs shave. The ones that don't went bankrupt. Think about the huge costs invlove and see what paying you 35-40 for EACH AND EVERY sale works to for their bottom line.

As I mentioned before, shaving is subjective. I've seen how some programs can make money with the PPS model on different price points. I can't say I 100% agree with all the methods, because in some cases even if they aren't shaving, the end user (the customer) is jerked around, creating a bad taste for online adult entertainment. And that hurts us all, and the small guys have smaller breathing room as it is.

But I agree with you that it is impossible for ALL to be and remain profitable. That's why within the next year you'll see some programs either close up shop or be bought up by ones that can make it work. As always, this business is dynamic and there's alot of changes coming

[Savaged00d]

Muahaha.. PG has a "shave" database rofl.

Fucking newbs.

[Abyss_Vee]

if you feel like you are not making enough with them... then start promoting a different sponsor.... it has nothing to do with what system they are using to show you the clicks.... send the same traffic else where.. and just keep the sponsor which you make the most money from. its funny how people keep bringing up the shave factor..... just promote what you make money with... and ignore the rest

[MarkMan]

well.. everyone can shave .. just send some traffic see how much $ you make .. if you are happy ..good ..else .. say bye bye and let the sponcer gf themselfs

[SmokeyTheBear]

anyone can shave using any affiliate software i have seen so i dont see any more credibility using a "box" affiliate program.

And i can tell you the very simple reason nastydollars and bangbros dont switch to something like nats . because i would drop them like a hot potato and so would many others..

[MaddCaz]

gross pic

[swami]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

And i can tell you the very simple reason nastydollars and bangbros dont switch to something like nats . because i would drop them like a hot potato and so would many others..

Yep. I have found NATS to be a most unreliable stats programme.
My Nasty ratios 1 :400 have been steady for 3 years.Bangbros though is another story.Gone from 1:400 to 1:600 then 1:800 and now close to 1:1000 in just the past couple of months.Something is up there.

[jollyperv]

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Case in point: thehun.net

[bigdog]

I don't think ND and BangBros want anyone knowing how many joins they actually do a day, proably one of the reasons for not changing.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by bigdog

I don't think ND and BangBros want anyone knowing how many joins they actually do a day, proably one of the reasons for not changing.

LOL HAHAHAHAHAHA Oh man nice post.

[nofx]

i send all my type in traffic to nastydollars

i've never seen any weirdness to make me think they were shaving me and I enjoy the checks I get from them.

[V_RocKs]

My sig says it all.

[V_RocKs]

Originally Posted by shap

LOL HAHAHAHAHAHA Oh man nice post.

Baddog has a good way of putting things into perspective.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

Baddog has a good way of putting things into perspective.

Thank you, but I don't recall posting in this thread until now.

[aico]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

And i can tell you the very simple reason nastydollars and bangbros dont switch to something like nats . because i would drop them like a hot potato and so would many others..

Ex-fucking-zactly, I personally hate programs that use Nats.

[polle54]

LOL

it's a quite ignorent post you made there

and your assumption is worse

as you correctly have observed, small programs use nats because it is way cheaper than a custom solution like perfect gonzo has.

To use nats do not in anyway prevent shaving, you can add and take away signups with that program.

And this is what your build your fear of them shaving on?
please...

[polle54]

LOL

it's a quite ignorent post you made there

and your assumption is worse

as you correctly have observed, small programs use nats because it is way cheaper than a custom solution like perfect gonzo has.

To use nats do not in anyway prevent shaving, you can add and take away signups with that program.

And this is what your build your fear of them shaving on?
please...

[Major (Tom)]

Originally Posted by pstation

it's still very much possible to shave with nats....

The difference is they do not support or have a module built in to do it. If they catch you you're done and pubically outed.
No one ever said it was impossible to shave with nats, but at least affiliates can feel rest assured that if the affiliate program is caught, it will be news.

Duke

[Major (Tom)]

Originally Posted by polle54

LOL

it's a quite ignorent post you made there

and your assumption is worse

as you correctly have observed, small programs use nats because it is way cheaper than a custom solution like perfect gonzo has.

To use nats do not in anyway prevent shaving, you can add and take away signups with that program.

And this is what your build your fear of them shaving on?
please...

Where can you take away signups???
Thats bullshit. Add them, yes.

Duke

[mOrrI]

hehheheh....
Interresting thread :D

[NickPapageorgio]

Originally Posted by longdongsilver

Not saying they do shave...

Brilliant thread title I must say.