Do bells and whistles equal sales? Gallery Design Contest?

[-=HOAX=-]

I'd like to propose a contest of sorts...

With all the gallery designing being thrown about, I'd like to conduct a test...

We need someone with a decent TGP, some gallery designers, and a way of monitoring clicks or ensuring everyone gets about the same amount of traffic from the same source...here's the way it goes...


Every contestant creates a gallery, they use their own content and their own BW. The TGP owner then lists each gallery in turn for a week always in the same spot.

The tgp owner keeps all the gallery designs and the person whos gallery garnishes the MOST SALES wins the money in the account, plus bragging rights.

This contest is just an idea, but I think a good one. Put a little bit on the line, no pain no gain. Add your input, lets come up with rules and agreements to avoid the usual BS that follows contests of this nature.

We also need a willing TGP owner with a decent TGP...Shemp? Choker? Boneprone? Sleazy? Who's down?

[hyper]

what you on crack?

[421Fill]

I'd participate. I can make pretty good galleries. ;)

[-=HOAX=-]

Originally posted by hyper
what you on crack?

Maybe, but what does that have to do with anything?

[railz]

Nice idea Hoax but it will never work that way - there are too many unkowns. Traffic varies too wildly - designer A might get lucky on a really good day with a so-so gallery while deisgner B might have a kick-ass gallery and get absolutely nothing.

"You can never know anything about a quantum state" - traffic definately is quantum

[Eric]

Originally posted by -=HOAX=-



Maybe, but what does that have to do with anything?

Maybe???


Well I think it is a great idea. I am in

[hyper]

Originally posted by -=HOAX=-



Maybe, but what does that have to do with anything?

because we dont need newbies stumbling in here
finding ways to make $$

[XXXPaysiteDesign]

Sounds like a good idea to me, I'm in.

[SetTheWorldonFire]

great contest

wish I had time to make one.

[Eric]

Originally posted by railz
Nice idea Hoax but it will never work that way - there are too many unkowns. Traffic varies too wildly - designer A might get lucky on a really good day with a so-so gallery while deisgner B might have a kick-ass gallery and get absolutely nothing.

"You can never know anything about a quantum state" - traffic definately is quantum

Railz, I agree there are many unknowns. But I think if it was run on a 3 or 5 day spread with all galleries submitted before hand and not able to be changed I think that would even out the playing field. And make those lucky days just that lucky and not the true skill.

[-=HOAX=-]

We need a TGP owner or a source of traffic...I'm sure there are a million designers available...but a source of traffic is needed...

I agree with railz on the quantum thing...however...by that logic, since everything is in flux, measurement of any given system is not possible. So really, cutting out as many variables as possible and having a go at it is really the only game going...in this or any system.

And as for the newbie's do you think the info gained from this experience isn't already out there? Do you think there are so many secrets to this game? Were you born with full knowledge of this industry? Did you learn by doing, watching, immitation, or innovation?

LEts do it...there's nothing to lose and much to gain...

[railz]

How about this though?

- Everyone uses the same content (Sure some nice content provider on here will put a set up for it).
- Everyone promotes the same site.
- Template must be your OWN work - no contracting out to 3rd parties.
- Employees/Owners of the site selected to promote cannot enter. Likewise for family.

I just remember the arguements after the designer showdown and wouldn't want something fun like this to turn out the same way.

[-=HOAX=-]

Originally posted by railz
How about this though?

- Everyone uses the same content (Sure some nice content provider on here will put a set up for it).

The only reason I thought different was because a gallery is the whole package, content and all, and thus choosing good pics is part of the design...plus the same content in the same spot would definitely not be good.

- Everyone promotes the same site.

Totally agree...

- Template must be your OWN work - no contracting out to 3rdparties.

Totally Agree...

- Employees/Owners of the site selected to promote cannot enter. Likewise for family.

totally agree...

I just remember the arguements after the designer showdown and wouldn't want something fun like this to turn out the same way.

That's why I was thinking of having a full and final set of rules we all agree upon.

As well as an agreement that says if you bitch and whine after agreeing to the rules we fabricate you are a bitch and we all get you gangbang you with pitch forks...

Sort of a contract that says, you entered you lost, shut the fuck up...

[Va2k]

Stand the FARK back there wont be no winners but ME I will put everyone to shame yes you too fletch IM n!!!!!!!!!! my bragging rights allready have started [email protected] when its set in stone.

TOM

[mastamindz]

Sounds like fun.

[quiet]

it's rigged.

[gothweb]

I could provide content for a contest like that... Of course, then people would need to promote my sites. ;)

[-=HOAX=-]

You guys forget, I started this thread with an idea...we need to flesh out the rules and get a few things squared away before it can happen...

What happens if there is an entrance fee, which simply covers the traffic source...is there a tgp owner that will let us pay a reduced rate for a weeks listing...?

There are details here that need to be worked out...its great that you're all into the contest but we need to make it happen...otherwise, nada.

I gotta go home...you guys get this shit figured out by tomorrow ok...

we need a traffic source...

[railz]

Totally agree with you on everything Hoax except this bit:

Originally posted by -=HOAX=-

The only reason I thought different was because a gallery is the whole package, content and all, and thus choosing good pics is part of the design...plus the same content in the same spot would definitely not be good.

While that's very true, it would simply be a lot easier on the contestants AND it would really add some extra to the competition. When you know there's a level playing field, it sometimes brings out that extra mile in people.

But whatever the consensus is I'll go with. Better get cracking on this stuff I have to deliver tomorrow morning so I have some free time

[jimmyf]

All my gallery designs are done in ASCII.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by quiet
it's rigged.

definitely rigged.

[-=HOAX=-]

Originally posted by railz
Totally agree with you on everything Hoax except this bit:



While that's very true, it would simply be a lot easier on the contestants AND it would really add some extra to the competition. When you know there's a level playing field, it sometimes brings out that extra mile in people.

But whatever the consensus is I'll go with. Better get cracking on this stuff I have to deliver tomorrow morning so I have some free time

I to would put this to a consensus...though I'm not sure it levels the playing field...well it does and it doesn't...a vote would handle it...I'll keep track of things we need voted on and things that need sponsorship for...yada yada...

I don't think this contest can really start for a few days...alot of details to work out. I'll keep thinking...

[-=HOAX=-]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX


definitely rigged.

Ok...so Fletch and Quiet are out...anyone else?

[the Shemp]

I'll give you a top spot for a week, but i dont want to do anything, you just email me the url each day.


shemp

[XXXPaysiteDesign]

Another issue is that the traffic source should always be the same, if there are 50-60 webmasters participating it will take months to get them equal traffic, and different times of the month/year are always better for sales.

[psyko514]

to deal with unknown traffic issues, set a limit of views

each gallery gets 20k (or whatever) unique views, and once the limit is set, the next gallery rotates in.

that way, every gallery is seen by 20000 unique surfers

[SykkBoy]

I'm game...I do pretty well with gallery traffic

[Undutchable]

I'm game too but I dont wanna set anything up, I just wanna enter

[DTK]

Originally posted by psyko514
to deal with unknown traffic issues, set a limit of views

each gallery gets 20k (or whatever) unique views, and once the limit is set, the next gallery rotates in.

that way, every gallery is seen by 20000 unique surfers

For tgp traffic, 20k is a tiny data sample. At that level, it's mostly luck.

[Brujah]

Limit only to people who design gallery templates for other people too! What good is it if we have winners and can't even get them to design for us ?

Maybe one of the content providers will set aside some content for the contest. Gives them spamming rights.

Something maybe more important than designs are also days of week. Some days the same amount of traffic will sell well, and other days it won't. Maybe someone on thursday would have a great design but it doesn't sell as well because of its "air-time." The TGP Owner can send to a single url that rotates the galleries instead, showing the same approved content but the template designs will all be different. The URL will rotate and ensure that each template receives an equal amount of pageviews.

[psyko514]

Originally posted by DTK


For tgp traffic, 20k is a tiny data sample. At that level, it's mostly luck.

i'm aware of that... notice the "(or whatever)" after 20k in my original post. i typed the first "large" number that came to mind.

[gornyhuy]

Let me play! Let me play!

Couple of points:
1)I definitely think content has a big impact on gallery performance and therefore it needs to be either the same or from the same set or artist or whatever. Similar enough that everyone agrees that that is not a factor in performance.

2)How will you track which gallery converted to what?

3)If Shemp is supplying traffic, but doesn't do anything other than URL then there has to be a trusted arbiter that is not playing to run the back office on everything.


just my 3 cents.

[DTK]

Originally posted by psyko514


i'm aware of that... notice the "(or whatever)" after 20k in my original post. i typed the first "large" number that came to mind.

Understood...I just mean that you probably need at least 10 times that number before you start approaching a reasonable data sample. And even then, 200k is pretty small when you're talking tgp traffic.

[the Shemp]

Hi guys, sorry, I'm going to have to back out cuz, i just sold the last two top spots I had available through till Jan 05. Hope you understand, but i cant pass up the $$,

regards

shemp

[Marcus]

I'd like to enter this.

How about everyone who enters the contest put in something like $50 or $100 and whoever gets the most sales gets the pot?

[-=HOAX=-]

Wow, so many factors...this is a big can of worms...


First off I want to thank Shemp for his offer, even it it was revoked. I definitely think this contest should have an entry fee of some sort to cover traffic costs initially for whoever fronts the hits...that's a thin limb to walk out on and I'm impressed with shemp's bravery.


Second I agree that participation should be restricted to those with a design site...one participant per design firm...


Third I agree that there should be a content pool...but it should be a large enough volume of content to cover at least 12 pics per contestant. Compensation should be worked out before hand...I don't want anyone sponsoring this thing (if it happens) to feel burned...that ain't right.


Fourth as far as listings go...what if all the galleries were arranged in a uniform manner, such as a 5x5 table for 25 contestants and so on and all listed at once for one week straight...the tgp owner gets the benefit of however many clean galleries. Plus other benefits already explored.


Fifth, who the fuck shall we promote?!?!??! I really want to enter in this myself but if the vote sways to adult.com sites...or playboy sites....(hmmmmm(that wasn't premeditated)) I'd be exempt...which totally blows, but I guess I take one for the team eh....I bet we could get a sponsor to set up seperate accounts for all of the entries...maybe not who knows...


So many questions...though I definitely think this contest could be worth the effort...and all the run around will weed out the weenies...


I'll try and put together a basic version of the rules for y'all to check out and modify...

We all spend so much time here on GFY and much of it is self promo and much is fucking off...I definitely think being able to claim your shits converts better than anyone on GFY would be a dope claim...

[-=HOAX=-]

Whoa...whoa...check it out...check it...

What if all the galleries were in an iframe...

any tgp owner could add the code to their site...

each contestant pays a small entry fee...or not...i dunno...

we use a single sponsor and a single site with content that the sponsor sets aside especially for the contest...

the contest runs for a few months with awards for most sales, best conversions...lowest sales...whatever...

all the stats need to be public and posted weekly by an uninvolved party...

I dunno...

I see flaws, but we can work it out...

[[The Leader]]

I like the idea of the galleries rotating, instead of one personas gallery each day. Every experienced tgp person will tell you some days are better than others. Also I'd say that the only way this would work would be if everyone tossed in money for the gallery spots. Otherwize, there would be too many entries and probably too little traffic.

I don't like the idea of this only being for design firms. Come on, what are you designers, chicken? A lot of the best galleries come from people with in house designers. I vote let's make this about bragging rights, not spamming rights. Let anyone with the entry fee in.

[-=HUNGRYMAN=-]

As a pro gallery designer ... I think that my making a nice, clean, sweet-looking template for a client is not going to determine the success of that gallery by any means ...

I think that the content chosen, as well as the individual's ability to "know" their traffic, and what will best convert it, is the BIGGEST part of the equation ...

I think if this contest is meant to mean anything other than a way for gallery designers to spam their wares, you MUST let each participant chose thier own content from wherever they wish ...

You see while my templates (sample #1,sample #2 ) do generally do very well for the clients I sell them too, the only thing I really guarantee is that it looks nice, and is compliant to the submitting rules of all the big TGPs ... thus pretty much guaranteeing they will get listed ... what they do with that listing is largely up to them from that point ... my job is done (until they place another order for more templates with me next week)

There are far too many variables involved for a designer to "guarantee" how well a designed template will do ... most of my template clients are EXPERIENCED, well seasoned TGPers and TGP site owners, who know that my designed template, along with the right content, and the right sponsor for the traffic they are trying to sell WILL make them money ...

[Brujah]

HM, thats the whole point of the contest.
Given equal type of content, equal traffic source, comparing the design and style of the template mainly.. notice the title of the thread "Do bells and whistles equal sales?".

The individual knowing his traffic isn't a factor.
The content isn't as much a factor.

The idea is to remove those factors you added to the equation, leaving the design as the only or major factor.

[-=HUNGRYMAN=-]

understood Brujah .... but I am trying to make the point that content choice is just as much an integral part of the design as the background color and such

To paraphrase ... a racing team's whole performance could be greatly affected by their choice of tires that they use for the road conditions that day, the teperature .... many factors can have HUGE bearing on how well the team places ... not what color their racecar is .... lol

[Jakke PNG]

I say the entry fee is 75$ -> which is used to buy 100k of traffic from choker.

[Morgan]

Hmm.. shall I?

[Undutchable]

Originally posted by TeenGodFather
I say the entry fee is 75$ -> which is used to buy 100k of traffic from choker.

Not a bad idea, but his traffic is 1 buck per 1000 unq's right? So perhaps buy 50k each and leave $25 for the jackpot?

[Jakke PNG]

Originally posted by Undutchable


Not a bad idea, but his traffic is 1 buck per 1000 unq's right? So perhaps buy 50k each and leave $25 for the jackpot?

From Choker's admin
Gallery traffic is still $75 for 100k, split between 1 or 2 galleries

[Brujah]

Ah but color and text and style has a big effect on sales. The color of a racecar is a totally different animal. Be careful with your wording, what you're seeming to say is that the gallery template design doesn't matter much and any amateur can with no skills can do the job, because it's the content and traffic that matters. ;)

Why go with a $100 per template designer when a $5 per template designer would do then ?

[-=HUNGRYMAN=-]

not at all Bro (Bru ??)

I am saying that BOTH eliments compliment one another ..

the design alone will not guarantee sales .... nor will just good content ... it is like two part epoxy ... you NEED both parts

BTW ... if you are paying $100 for a template, you are getting fukked .... check out my sig ... even my regular price is only $50

but I think you were only trying to illustrate your point ..

[SetTheWorldonFire]

Originally posted by Ganjasaurus
Hmm.. shall I?

i'm out if you're in.

[-=HOAX=-]

I think -=HUNGRYMAN=-'s analogies are running away from him...

I agree that content is an integral part of the design, I originally wanted everyone to use they're own content but it has been suggested that we should all use the same content...I think the best solution would be for all the contestants to draw from a sponsor provided pool of pics.

As far as the design firm only thing...that rule is a bit much...I created this contest to set apart the men from the boys as far as people who consistently post in threads concerning their gallery design skills go. But I don't mind opening it up to anyone.

As far as the debate about racecar colors and what not...

One definition of the word Design is: "To create or contrive for a particular purpose or effect." The effect desired is signups...and thus content plays a huge role in this. But I don't think color scheme, theme, layout, etc...are simply icing on the cake.

However, that is the point of this contest...how much is too much...?

For shits and giggles I say we throw in a good ole 20 pic with banners above and below gallery as a control subject...

[[The Leader]]

Originally posted by -=HOAX=-

As far as the design firm only thing...that rule is a bit much...I created this contest to set apart the men from the boys as far as people who consistently post in threads concerning their gallery design skills go. But I don't mind opening it up to anyone.

word.


It's on