IBill is ***CARDING*** old members databases..! - GoFuckYourself.com

The Duck · 05-22-2006, 06:27 AM

I am almost too angry to even type at this point, but wanted to put a warning out for any here who may have been effected by the iBill/Etelerape "transfer" scam... while we never signed a contract w/ the so-called processor Etelerape, they began attempting to bill our iBill database of old rebills immediately on april 3rd. i logged into their admin system that day using the username and password that iBill so kindly provided and cancelled every user listed, and periodically did this until the end of april to leave no customer in rebillable status... at no time did i ever fill in their "contract".

Well, today i received an extremely irate email from a past customer wondering why he was suddenly being billed again after cancelling his subscription months ago... totally confused, i log into the Etelegate admin system and search for this persons email address... lo and behold, i couldn't believe my eyes.

According to their transaction statements, this old customer had ***SUBSCRIBED AGAIN A WEEK AGO, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE NEVER LINKED TO THE ****ING ETELERAPE JOIN PAGES!!!!!!

As i search both forward and back through their seedy records, i find one after another of my old subscribers that were in my rebill database have been signed back up for service, one after another... amazing considering the lack of join page links.

In true *CARDER* fashion, Etelerape is actually going through the signup process each time using a multitude of proxy relays, picked depending on the locale indicated in my old customer database... i run a script called 'PWsentry' that compares and logs all username logins along w/ time and IP address, as well as date and time of all logins. sure enough, each of these "new users" of mine have only visited my protected members area ONE TIME EACH, ON THE DAY THEY SOMEHOW SIGNED UP AGAIN. by searching through the IP addresses i found that one of three relays would be used for any signup in Germany, one of four in Australia, and on and on... i am literally on the ground here, this is just over the top.

When the iBill/Etelerape switchover took place we wanted nothing to do w/ them, even for old rebills, but had already written off the 1 month period as unavoidable for current rebilling members... i guess they couldn't keep their hands to themselves once the databases reached their thieving hands.

I am SO angry i can barely see straight but know that some other victims might have not noticed this sort of thing has been going on either as i did, so wanted to post my ire here for anyone who might need to run over to their admin and check their transaction lists... especially if you run any sort of gateway scripts (PWsentry, Pennywise, Proxypass, etc.), the single entry for each new "sale" is the real clincher.

I am heading back to a 12 pack of beer as my blood pressure is seriously out of control at this point and i need to go sink into a languid pool of hatred for a bit. amazing how the creditcard companies and acquiring banks have made life so hard for many of us adult webmasters over the last few years, and yet blatant MUGGING by an outfit like iBill/Etelerape seems to steal w/out worry or consequence from behind their lawyers and publicly traded stock symbols... ****ing unreal..

:~

chupachups · 05-22-2006, 06:30 AM

Jesus, these guys are just too much. And I thought I had seen everything regarding shady processors.....bah

xclusive · 05-22-2006, 06:34 AM

wow those fuckers just don't know when to quit

ninavain · 05-22-2006, 06:36 AM

Oh-no..that's not good

MickeyG · 05-22-2006, 06:41 AM

they won't stop until someones in jail.

Paul Markham · 05-22-2006, 07:06 AM

The last thing you need to do is be drinking. Because this could hurt you big time.

Get in touch with the police, maybe even FBI, lawyer and most importantly VISA and MASTERCARD. Because if you do not you could find a clause somewhere that puts you in the shit over this.

Get it stopped before you get a drink.

Basic_man · 05-22-2006, 07:10 AM

HOLY SCAM!! This shit is gonna make some serious noise! I'm out!

crockett · 05-22-2006, 07:19 AM

I would certainly contact the FBI's cyber crimes division.. You could hold the keys to sinking those scamming fucks ship.

gooddomains · 05-22-2006, 07:22 AM

Ibill, rock solild ISPS solutions

Screaming · 05-22-2006, 07:26 AM

wow that is crazy shit man

tradermcduck · 05-22-2006, 07:34 AM

Dirty F · 05-22-2006, 07:35 AM

Ibill is a top notch, stand up company.

Juilan · 05-22-2006, 07:37 AM

good lord in heaven

blackfeet · 05-22-2006, 07:55 AM

i only deal with ccbill.

BlingDaddy · 05-22-2006, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juilan

good lord in heaven

My thought too....

Phil · 05-22-2006, 08:23 AM

I'm glad I removed them even from backup option... I did like Andrew and his quickness if I needed anything

TheLegacy · 05-22-2006, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The last thing you need to do is be drinking. Because this could hurt you big time.

Get in touch with the police, maybe even FBI, lawyer and most importantly VISA and MASTERCARD. Because if you do not you could find a clause somewhere that puts you in the shit over this.

Get it stopped before you get a drink.

absolutely the best advice - why sit around and post on a board when I would be on the phone with every law enforcement screaming fraud !!

CC companies would shut down their privileges and the FBI etc would be all over them... why would anyone not do this is beyond me

Dagwolf · 05-22-2006, 08:34 AM

This is beyond low.

Report those fuckers!

BoyAlley · 05-22-2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franck

Ibill is a top notch, stand up company.

~Ray · 05-22-2006, 08:41 AM

blah blah blah.. and then you do nothing but drink.

Fetish · 05-22-2006, 08:42 AM

Another reason I do not use third party processing anymore. having a merchant account is the only way to go. My database, my customers.

Screaming · 05-22-2006, 08:45 AM

wow.. amazing..

Manowar · 05-22-2006, 08:49 AM

uH oh!!!!!

HairToStay · 05-22-2006, 10:15 AM

I'm waiting for someone else to confirm this.

marketsmart · 05-22-2006, 10:18 AM

If this is true, it's CC fraud plain and simple. Call the FBI, Visa, and MC...

quantum-x · 05-22-2006, 10:24 AM

o u c h

martinsc · 05-22-2006, 10:28 AM

is that for real??????

donnie · 05-22-2006, 10:34 AM

kandah - are you crazy???

Why are you posting somebody else's stories all the time???

That shit DID NOT happent to you!!

That was posted on some other board. I will find the link if you just give me couple of minutes.

WHY are you doing this man????

donnie · 05-22-2006, 10:42 AM

It happened to this guy and not to you:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...hreadid=512399

If you want to post stories like this, at least say it didn't happen to you.

JD · 05-22-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donnie

kandah - are you crazy???

Why are you posting somebody else's stories all the time???

That shit DID NOT happent to you!!

That was posted on some other board. I will find the link if you just give me couple of minutes.

WHY are you doing this man????

he craves the attention maybe?

hezochiah · 05-22-2006, 10:46 AM

It must be really fuckin boring in Sweden or you're just a dumbass.

Zarathustra · 05-22-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donnie

kandah - are you crazy???

Why are you posting somebody else's stories all the time???

That shit DID NOT happent to you!!

That was posted on some other board. I will find the link if you just give me couple of minutes.

WHY are you doing this man????

jimthefiend · 05-22-2006, 11:58 AM

Congrats to the Winners!!!

shiloh451 · 05-22-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donnie

kandah - are you crazy???

Why are you posting somebody else's stories all the time???

That shit DID NOT happent to you!!

That was posted on some other board. I will find the link if you just give me couple of minutes.

WHY are you doing this man????

ROFLMAO

HairToStay · 05-22-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donnie

It happened to this guy and not to you:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...hreadid=512399

If you want to post stories like this, at least say it didn't happen to you.

And now you see why I asked for someone else to confirm this. I figured this story happened to him just like nearly being shot, being caught at the airport with a Fleshlight, etc etc etc

donnie · 05-22-2006, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HairToStay

And now you see why I asked for someone else to confirm this. I figured this story happened to him just like nearly being shot, being caught at the airport with a Fleshlight, etc etc etc

I don't really care about "his" stories but this is kind of serious beacuse I belive the other guy (the real guy) made some kind of mistake. I don't belive IBILL did anything this time. But I am not 100% sure about this. Anyway, when you post something like this and you clame it "happened today", it could make alot of people confused...

The Duck · 05-22-2006, 02:14 PM

strike 2...

fuck ibill anyway.

breaker · 05-22-2006, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franck

Ibill is a top notch, stand up company.

Must be a glitch, They always pay on time.

rowan · 05-22-2006, 04:13 PM

Bloody hell, I was just about to give props for kandah actually posting something useful and biz related for once... l guess I was wrong to ever be thinking like that.

kandah, how the fuck do you make any sales when you have a board persona like this? You sir, suck.

Webby · 05-22-2006, 05:21 PM

Mmmm.. The "words" from the instigator of this thread come from a post by frameRelay at WebHostingTalk.

Despite that - it's another warning not to trust a processor with card numbers - amazing shit!

SilentKnight · 05-22-2006, 11:49 PM

Looks like Xbiz ran with the story - quoting Kandah's repost of someone else's post.

http://xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=15089 (dated May 22nd/06)

"A recent post on GFY.com accused iBill of billing canceled accounts after the company outsourced its billing processing to Arizona-based Etelegate.com.

In a post titled hahaha8220;IBill is hahaha8216;carding old membershahaha8217; databases,hahaha8221; Kandah warned webmasters that Etelegate was attempting to bill old rebills from the iBill database. A similar post from Adonis warned of the same practice."

This could get REAL interesting...

Xplicit · 05-22-2006, 11:59 PM

I have a feeling ibill finally crossed the line far enough to make law enforcement take action.

People will be going to jail, watch.

hezochiah · 05-23-2006, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Looks like Xbiz ran with the story - quoting Kandah's repost of someone else's post.

http://xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=15089 (dated May 22nd/06)

"A recent post on GFY.com accused iBill of billing canceled accounts after the company outsourced its billing processing to Arizona-based Etelegate.com.

In a post titled hahaha8220;IBill is hahaha8216;carding old membershahaha8217; databases,hahaha8221; Kandah warned webmasters that Etelegate was attempting to bill old rebills from the iBill database. A similar post from Adonis warned of the same practice."

This could get REAL interesting...

George Lucas gonna sue somebody...

nofx · 05-23-2006, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Looks like Xbiz ran with the story - quoting Kandah's repost of someone else's post.

http://xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=15089 (dated May 22nd/06)

"A recent post on GFY.com accused iBill of billing canceled accounts after the company outsourced its billing processing to Arizona-based Etelegate.com.

In a post titled hahaha8220;IBill is hahaha8216;carding old membershahaha8217; databases,hahaha8221; Kandah warned webmasters that Etelegate was attempting to bill old rebills from the iBill database. A similar post from Adonis warned of the same practice."

This could get REAL interesting...

ROFLROFLROFLROFL

Webby · 05-23-2006, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Looks like Xbiz ran with the story - quoting Kandah's repost of someone else's post.

http://xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=15089 (dated May 22nd/06)

"A recent post on GFY.com accused iBill of billing canceled accounts after the company outsourced its billing processing to Arizona-based Etelegate.com.

In a post titled hahaha8220;IBill is hahaha8216;carding old membershahaha8217; databases,hahaha8221; Kandah warned webmasters that Etelegate was attempting to bill old rebills from the iBill database. A similar post from Adonis warned of the same practice."

This could get REAL interesting...

So Kandah is posting frameRelay's post and it is now an article in Xbiz as "news" - that's too funny!

BTW... It would be interesting to know how the hell Etelegate became an "Arizona-based" processor, who currently owns and funds them, where exactly they are in Arizona - and why are they using a dissolved company name and a maildrop in the UK.

Centurion · 05-23-2006, 01:15 AM

I think once Ibill completes its merger with Globill, that it should be on pretty solid foundation and finally be able to pay all of it's bills, etc etc

milambur · 05-23-2006, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kandah

Ripoff post

Bara sa att du vet, det ar olagligt i Sverige att kopiera andras texter utan att ange kallan. Fattar inte varfor du inte angav kallan, verkligen puckat.

HairToStay · 05-23-2006, 03:30 AM

I began taking everything he said with a grain of salt when AaronM outed him for selling content that isn't 2257 compliant.

darksoul · 05-23-2006, 03:45 AM

muhaha, ban this stupid fuck.

John69 · 05-23-2006, 07:04 PM

funny thread, and not so funny.

they are doing this mad rebilling but not paying wires.

05-22-2006, 06:27 AM	#1
The Duck Adult Content Provider Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 18,243	IBill is CARDING old members databases..! I am almost too angry to even type at this point, but wanted to put a warning out for any here who may have been effected by the iBill/Etelerape "transfer" scam... while we never signed a contract w/ the so-called processor Etelerape, they began attempting to bill our iBill database of old rebills immediately on april 3rd. i logged into their admin system that day using the username and password that iBill so kindly provided and cancelled every user listed, and periodically did this until the end of april to leave no customer in rebillable status... at no time did i ever fill in their "contract". Well, today i received an extremely irate email from a past customer wondering why he was suddenly being billed again after cancelling his subscription months ago... totally confused, i log into the Etelegate admin system and search for this persons email address... lo and behold, i couldn't believe my eyes. According to their transaction statements, this old customer had *SUBSCRIBED AGAIN A WEEK AGO, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE NEVER LINKED TO THE *ING ETELERAPE JOIN PAGES!!!!!! As i search both forward and back through their seedy records, i find one after another of my old subscribers that were in my rebill database have been signed back up for service, one after another... amazing considering the lack of join page links. In true CARDER* fashion, Etelerape is actually going through the signup process each time using a multitude of proxy relays, picked depending on the locale indicated in my old customer database... i run a script called 'PWsentry' that compares and logs all username logins along w/ time and IP address, as well as date and time of all logins. sure enough, each of these "new users" of mine have only visited my protected members area ONE TIME EACH, ON THE DAY THEY SOMEHOW SIGNED UP AGAIN. by searching through the IP addresses i found that one of three relays would be used for any signup in Germany, one of four in Australia, and on and on... i am literally on the ground here, this is just over the top. When the iBill/Etelerape switchover took place we wanted nothing to do w/ them, even for old rebills, but had already written off the 1 month period as unavoidable for current rebilling members... i guess they couldn't keep their hands to themselves once the databases reached their thieving hands. I am SO angry i can barely see straight but know that some other victims might have not noticed this sort of thing has been going on either as i did, so wanted to post my ire here for anyone who might need to run over to their admin and check their transaction lists... especially if you run any sort of gateway scripts (PWsentry, Pennywise, Proxypass, etc.), the single entry for each new "sale" is the real clincher. I am heading back to a 12 pack of beer as my blood pressure is seriously out of control at this point and i need to go sink into a languid pool of hatred for a bit. amazing how the creditcard companies and acquiring banks have made life so hard for many of us adult webmasters over the last few years, and yet blatant MUGGING by an outfit like iBill/Etelerape seems to steal w/out worry or consequence from behind their lawyers and publicly traded stock symbols... **ing unreal.. :~ __________________ Skype Horusmaia ICQ 41555245 Email** [email protected]

05-22-2006, 06:30 AM	#2
chupachups Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sweden/Spain you sum bitch! Posts: 6,576	Jesus, these guys are just too much. And I thought I had seen everything regarding shady processors.....bah __________________

05-22-2006, 06:34 AM	#3
xclusive Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 35,218	wow those fuckers just don't know when to quit __________________ I support MediumPimpin.com / Shemp's Outlawtgp.com /

05-22-2006, 07:06 AM	#6
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	The last thing you need to do is be drinking. Because this could hurt you big time. Get in touch with the police, maybe even FBI, lawyer and most importantly VISA and MASTERCARD. Because if you do not you could find a clause somewhere that puts you in the shit over this. Get it stopped before you get a drink. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

05-22-2006, 07:10 AM	#7
Basic_man Programming King Pin Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Montreal Posts: 27,360	HOLY SCAM!! This shit is gonna make some serious noise! I'm out! __________________ UUGallery Builder - automated photo/video gallery plugin for Wordpress! Stop looking! Checkout Naked Hosting, online since 1999 !

05-22-2006, 06:36 AM	#4
ninavain So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 6,268	Oh-no..that's not good

05-22-2006, 06:41 AM	#5
MickeyG Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 4,134	they won't stop until someones in jail.

05-22-2006, 07:19 AM	#8
crockett in a van by the river Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 76,806	I would certainly contact the FBI's cyber crimes division.. You could hold the keys to sinking those scamming fucks ship. __________________ In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

05-22-2006, 07:22 AM	#9
gooddomains Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,127	Ibill, rock solild ISPS solutions

05-22-2006, 07:26 AM	#10
Screaming I can change this!!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 18,972	wow that is crazy shit man __________________

05-22-2006, 07:34 AM	#11
tradermcduck Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Europe - By the way I know my nickname sucks ;-) Posts: 2,362

05-22-2006, 07:35 AM	#12
Dirty F Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 59,204	Ibill is a top notch, stand up company.

05-22-2006, 07:37 AM	#13
Juilan Sultan of Swing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: XXXodus Posts: 15,141	good lord in heaven __________________ My Best Converting VOD Sponsor \|

05-22-2006, 07:55 AM	#14
blackfeet Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 589	i only deal with ccbill.

05-22-2006, 08:23 AM	#16
Phil Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,659	I'm glad I removed them even from backup option... I did like Andrew and his quickness if I needed anything __________________ Ask Phil

05-22-2006, 08:34 AM	#18
Dagwolf President of Canada Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leaving Hell, Entering Limbo Posts: 23,141	This is beyond low. Report those fuckers! __________________ Sleep well, and dream of large women.

05-22-2006, 08:41 AM	#20
~Ray visit hardlinks.org Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Las Vegas , Nv >>> [email protected] or icq 94994627 anytime Posts: 18,362	blah blah blah.. and then you do nothing but drink. __________________ Adult Backlinks for Adult Websites - Testimonials Available

05-22-2006, 08:42 AM	#21
Fetish Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 823	Another reason I do not use third party processing anymore. having a merchant account is the only way to go. My database, my customers.

05-22-2006, 08:45 AM	#22
Screaming I can change this!!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 18,972	wow.. amazing.. __________________

05-22-2006, 08:49 AM	#23
Manowar jellyfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 71,528	uH oh!!!!!

05-22-2006, 10:15 AM	#24
HairToStay Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Southcoast, Mass. Posts: 1,521	I'm waiting for someone else to confirm this. __________________ Make bank by giving your surfers free pics every day and it costs you NOTHING! Use POTD Sponsors to find adult sponsors in more than 75 niches who offer a POTD feature!

05-22-2006, 10:18 AM	#25
marketsmart HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sunnybrook Institution for the Criminally Insane Posts: 20,419	If this is true, it's CC fraud plain and simple. Call the FBI, Visa, and MC...

05-22-2006, 10:24 AM	#26
quantum-x Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ICQ: 251425 Fr/Au/Ca Posts: 6,863	o u c h __________________ PrettyInCash.com - BoozedGFs.com - TeenGFs.com - JizzGFs.com- MilfUploads.com -

05-22-2006, 10:28 AM	#27
martinsc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 27,047	is that for real?????? __________________ Make Money

05-22-2006, 10:34 AM	#28
donnie Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,630	kandah - are you crazy??? Why are you posting somebody else's stories all the time??? That shit DID NOT happent to you!! That was posted on some other board. I will find the link if you just give me couple of minutes. WHY are you doing this man???? Last edited by donnie; 05-22-2006 at 10:36 AM..

05-22-2006, 10:42 AM	#29
donnie Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,630	It happened to this guy and not to you: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...hreadid=512399 If you want to post stories like this, at least say it didn't happen to you.

05-22-2006, 10:46 AM	#31
hezochiah Confirmed User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 807	It must be really fuckin boring in Sweden or you're just a dumbass.

05-22-2006, 11:58 AM	#33
jimthefiend So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: icq: 121189 Posts: 18,889	Congrats to the Winners!!!

05-22-2006, 02:14 PM	#37
The Duck Adult Content Provider Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 18,243	strike 2... fuck ibill anyway. __________________ Skype Horusmaia ICQ 41555245 Email [email protected]

05-22-2006, 04:13 PM	#39
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	Bloody hell, I was just about to give props for kandah actually posting something useful and biz related for once... l guess I was wrong to ever be thinking like that. kandah, how the fuck do you make any sales when you have a board persona like this? You sir, suck.

05-22-2006, 05:21 PM	#40
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Mmmm.. The "words" from the instigator of this thread come from a post by frameRelay at WebHostingTalk. Despite that - it's another warning not to trust a processor with card numbers - amazing shit! __________________ XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.

05-22-2006, 11:49 PM	#41
SilentKnight Megan Fox's fluffer Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: shooting pool in Elysium Posts: 24,818	Looks like Xbiz ran with the story - quoting Kandah's repost of someone else's post. http://xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=15089 (dated May 22nd/06) "A recent post on GFY.com accused iBill of billing canceled accounts after the company outsourced its billing processing to Arizona-based Etelegate.com. In a post titled hahaha8220;IBill is hahaha8216;carding old membershahaha8217; databases,hahaha8221; Kandah warned webmasters that Etelegate was attempting to bill old rebills from the iBill database. A similar post from Adonis warned of the same practice." This could get REAL interesting... Last edited by SilentKnight; 05-22-2006 at 11:50 PM..

05-22-2006, 11:59 PM	#42
Xplicit Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Location: █◄►█ Posts: 3,558	I have a feeling ibill finally crossed the line far enough to make law enforcement take action. People will be going to jail, watch.

05-23-2006, 01:15 AM	#46
Centurion Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: SeATtle Posts: 6,033	I think once Ibill completes its merger with Globill, that it should be on pretty solid foundation and finally be able to pay all of it's bills, etc etc __________________

05-23-2006, 03:30 AM	#48
HairToStay Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Southcoast, Mass. Posts: 1,521	I began taking everything he said with a grain of salt when AaronM outed him for selling content that isn't 2257 compliant. __________________ Make bank by giving your surfers free pics every day and it costs you NOTHING! Use POTD Sponsors to find adult sponsors in more than 75 niches who offer a POTD feature!