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but seriously, we still havent got an explanation for the OC-9 statement...
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But yeah, most of the time the end-user is caught up somewhere between the background techno music or the overflashy flash animations, and decide a nice site makes up for a shitty network. :2 cents: |
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OC-9?
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www.dslreports.com does a great job for DSL, but that's it (and no one is delivering DSL anymore except for the LEC's). I haven't found anyone who 3rd parties hosting... MrB |
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40 Gbps - OC-768 13.27 Gbps - OC-256 10 Gbps - OC-192 4.976 Gbps - OC-96 2.488 Gbps - OC-48, STS-48 1.866 Gbps - OC-36 1.244 Gbps - OC-24 933.12 Mbps - OC-18 622.08 Mbps - OC-12, STS-12 466.56 Mbps - OC-9 155.52 Mbps - OC-3, STS-3, category 5 cable, high-speed ADSL downstream 100 Mbps - CDDI, FDDI, Fast Ethernet 51.84 Mbps - OC-1, STS-1 44.736 Mbps - T-3, DS-3 North America 34.368 Mbps - E-3 Europe 20 Mbps - Category 4 cable 16 Mbps - Token Ring LANs 10Mbps - Thin Ethernet, category 3 cable, cable modem 8.448 Mbps - E-2 Europe 6.312 Mbps - T-2, DS-2 North America 6.144 Mbps - Standard ADSL downstream 3.152 Mbps - DS-1c |
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No one is "whining" except you, your person "in the know" ended up making both you of look like jackasses because his entire post tried to discredit a company because they have 1 router named "Way2Fast0C3" and he didn't know what the fuck an oc-9 was. Yes they exist, they're 466mbps. Google for +oc-9 +bandwidth or check any of these links: http://streamingmedialand.com/data.html http://partner.nuspire.com/bandwidth_Scales.htm http://www.spikeman.net/bandwidth.html etc etc etc If you're skeptical of someone's economics ask them how it works, don't call someone you feel is a "expert" to come talk shit on them for you and potentially ruin their business in front of hundreds of people. If I were you by this point i would be EMBARASSED to have my name or corporate logo associated with any of it. |
Actually, he didn't ask me to post on it...he just asked me to read it...
Check the product books of 10 backbone ISPs and find me an OC-9...I dare ya...it might exist in the "grand scheme of things", but it is not an everyday sold product. There again, seeing OC3 on a traceroute never constitutes all that they have, but let me reiterate...I have seen companies say they have an OC-192, and all they have is a Frac DS3 from a backbone who is tied into a 192 sonet, no backhaul... I do have to apologize, I flamed before I did further homework...I basically did 2-3 things and went off...The Way2Fast guys in retrospect seem to have a good thing running... Anyway...can't we all just get along :glugglug |
:glugglug dont take it personally, this is GFY afterall :)
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Good point....So go fuck yourself :Graucho
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Dipshit - In case you missed it the comment about the OC-9 was just a small piece of his post. And he was wrong! Next time I see him he's buying the beer.
The you can't handle the truth comment wasn't melodrama, it was comedy. Lighten up! Ever see A Few Good Men with Nicholson and Cruise? lol I wasn't trying to 'punk out' Way2Fast, they seem like nice people from the few interactions we've had. Based on the jist of this thread if I wanted to pick apart a host it would probably be one that uses Cogent bandwidth! You've completely taken out of context what's going on here. Way2Fast jumped into the thread saying they'd sell 100mbit of Tier 1 bandwidth for $6500. That's pretty fucking amazing considering that there isn't a single offering anywhere on the internet to match it without being Cogent (or the like). Suggesting that I decided to 'bash' their company is just plain off. Perhaps I should start another thread called 100 FULL megabit of blended and redundant Tier 1 bandwidth for just $6500 and see if we can't get Candid Hosting, Like Whoa, Cave Creek, and XXXWebhosting to jump in and add their two cents. :winkwink: Brad |
:GFYBand
:ticking :moon :smokin Are we all having fun yet?? :rainfro |
Brad, actually, I checked and double-checked (it was pissing me off), and there IS NO SUCH THING AS AN OC-9 in bandwidth terms.
I even consulted with someone else who knows more than me, PK, and he said "NO FUCKING WAY IS THERE AN OC-9!" Anyway, it's really no big deal at this point, LOL...it's still a shit load of fatpipe! A new GFY'er? You better believe it! I needed something else to consume my day, since I stopped playing Popcap Piggy Poker! I need a drink :drinkup |
MrBandwidth
They might like you better around here when you tell them that you used to work for the beer companies :Graucho |
:drinkup
With all the shit that has been going on in the Industry lately, I have actually been considering going back! :fart |
heh, i think you're now trivializing things that weren't intended to be initially, but nothing wrong with some old fashioned PR. rather than drag on some pointless debate on semantics i'd rather just have a big ol' circle jerk though. i love you n stuff, we havings for much of humpings in mine car? danke. :thumbsup
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heh gfy is a great time waster for me too while i wait for my company to go out of business, the joys of venture capital.
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That's the beauty of arguing sports and bandwidth...
>> I swear, it took me TWO WEEKS to quit Popcap.com PiggyPoker...it completely consumed me...it's like being addicted to amphedamines all over again :) As long as the LEC's don't start running things, we'll all be just fine! |
Well its simple, we do pay less then we sell it for. There are many little hosts out there that try and offer super low prices, and barely make a few cents over what they pay. Personally it aggreviates the heck out of me. Trying to make hosting clients understand you have to pay more for 24 hours support, our own facilities, great service, etc.
However due to our buying power, and to be quite frank, our ability to bargain. We are able to sell bandwidth super cheap. I assure you if I sell 100megs of bandwidth at $6500, even if you are using 100megs of bandwidth I am making some money. It may not be as much as if you are using 50megs, but we always make enough money to cover our costs, our employees, our support staff, and our facility fees. The best part is you can not get any better bandwidth then we sell, especially even close to the price we sell it for... |
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bandwith from a provider who's under chapter 11 is the best bandwith there is? just asking.... |
Hmm. Proggod, can you explain exactly why you make more money if a customer paying for a 100mb feed only uses 50mb? How does this work? Do you only get charged by the amount you utilize or what?
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good point dipshit :)
raises the question eternal question.... if you never used it, was it there to begin with? hehe Brad |
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Well its simple really, if we have 3gigs of bandwidth purchased (commited too) but we are only really are only averaging at 2gigs of bandwidth, we pay for 2gigs. Its as simple as that :) Of course we dont' pay per megabit, we usually pay in 100megabit tiers or more.. Gloabl Crossing's network in my opinion and alot of other people is the best. It has the fastest routes to just about everywhere, is never oversubscribed, and has a tone of redudancy. We are buying transit on a network, regardless of if the company current financial situation. Global Crossing unlike cogent or level3 is not going anywhere. The Department of Defenses uses GBLX for half of their network on GBLX, they also have about 10 people that want to buy them. |
*waits for sinempire's comments*
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Dipshit,
I think it's pretty cool that he's able to buy bandwidth for less than $65 per megabit. Shit, I wish that was possible in the Detroit area. How's that for a comment? lol! Brad |
I am pretty sure I could drop you a 100meg feed in the detroit area as well.. To the closest shared building or Global Crossing location.
And believe me right now we are paying the most we every will for bandwidth, the more we sell the cheaper it will get. Without giving too much away from our business plan, keeping watching for the future of Way2Fast Networks/Hosting.. We can drop $6500 100meg lines from tier1 bandwidth to practically any major city, if you are interested hit me up on icq or aim :) PS: I love the bashing, just gives me more of a chance to let everyone know about our awesome prices, and facilities :) |
Mrbandwidth - While you make a lot of good points, and quite honestly they apply to almost *every* small host that started in the last year, you are incorrect about bandwidth pricing.
I've been "involved' with the networking "community" for a long time now, just fringe stuff making psuedo-friends of high school kids that grew up and are now running the networks you talk a lot about today. I guarantee you, that you can get $50/mbit with no problem if you commit to gbit levels, from a number of Tier 1 providers. (tier1 is defined as a provider that is transitless). Of course, we're tiny as hell comparatively to the people talking here. Lack of capital tends to stave off quick development, but we've been around for over 3 years now, and have just expanded to another city and are finally able to commit to levels that at least make us somewhat price-competetive. What we lack in capital/sales staff/whatever we make up for in knowledge however, so I'm confident we will steadily (but slowly) keep on growing. I know for an absolute fact (been quoted from multiple providers) that you can do commits for 5mbit/sec at less than $150. Shrug. -Phil |
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You claim that you are doing 2 gigabit of bandwidth, that's quite a bit of bandwidth you got there. How do manage to do all that bandwidth on your OC9 (450mbit) link? Your traceroute?s seem to show that you only have an OC3 (155mbit) (Way2Fast3OC3.atm5-1-100.ar2.PHX1.gblx.net (64.210.21.142) [AS 3549] 68 msec 68 msec 68 msec) Can you shad some light on this? |
Jeeez, I actually read all that,, didn't understand 50% BUT I read it... lol
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OK, you guys need the lingo for cheap service:
Every server comes with RAID -> http://thumb-2.image.altavista.com/image/152177270 And a Mirror Image http://ccpl.carr.org/~troyr/mt.moran_1.jpg In addition, we have big pipes (on my motorcycle I am buying with your money), and we are located in a Class-A facility (I mean Class Act, lol). We offer 24/7 support, that is 24 divided by 7 which is 3.4 hours of support a day. OK, so now you know the hosting secrets, just go start your own company. :) lol |
I agree with everything you say as to quality bandwidth when it is regards to a paysite. Wih conversion rates being what they are now I am not sure that paying more than a dollar per gig is cost effective. I am assuming that a lot of tgpers use the cheap bandwidth hosts and I wonder what their experiences are? How much longer does it take for a page to load on a low end host versus a high end one. Do the fulltime tgpers on here use low or high end bandwidth and why?
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:321GFY |
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How desperate the provider is and how good the buying company is at negotiating the end-price makes all the difference...I mean, if you can get a hell of a deal now, but the company loses money on you and eventually takes a shit gets you back to step one again... If Northpoint, Rhythms, and Covad charged $200 for DSL instead of $100, they would have 25% less clients, but still be in business... I hope bandwidth doesn't end up like LD...that would suck MAJOR ass... Bob |
MrBandwidth -
You're correct in that you won't see anything near rock-bottom pricing from published pricing. I think verio has 45mbit published at $11k ;) I guarantee I can get it for far, far, less than that. You won't be able to get worldcom, or sprint, or even att bandwidth for super-cheap, but that doesn't mean those companies are more financially viable. Worldcom carries the majority of all internet traffic, and charges a pretty penny for it. Look at their financial situation. However, there are far more Tier1 (transitless) providers than just the huge ones you hear about. Transitless providers can sell for uber-cheap since adding more bandwidth utilization doesn't directly cost them money. It only costs them in infrastructure upgrades, no bill to their transit providers or anything. Essentially, adding a couple hundred meg to their network is "free" to them, since they won't notice it. Kimmykim makes a good point earlier in the thread though. How valuable your business is to your upstream(s). For this reason, we buy from a semi-smallish national backbone, where we personally know a lot of the engineering staff, and our also one of their larger customers. We're still fully redundant, and we willl be adding more transit links to other providers as our usage justifies it. I guess the point I'm trying to make is the bandwidth market has changed a lot. And their are hosts that are just interested in hosting your sites and that's it, and there are hosts that are interested in building their own network and systems so they can control the service they offer to you better. Neither is inherently better than the other, but they both have advantages and disadvantages. We're attempting the latter, slowly growing and such, but it does get frusterating to see newcomers come in, and just seemingly be a magnet for new customers just based on slightly lower pricing and a string of BS coming from them. Shrug. I do agree cogent needs to go out of business, I think that happening will seperate the men from the boys so to speak, and cogent has done far more harm to the hosting market than good. Lowering pricing is good, but doing it below cost only harms those companies that are planning to be around long-term, and also opens the door for a lot of scam artists out to make a quick buck while the fad lasts. peace, -Phil |
Great points...
I have even seen rumblings of a 45M full DS3 going in for around $6k plus telco access... Word to the wise, don't ever buy list :) Bob |
Just so we all understand, the actual cost for bandwidth for any tier1 provider is $0. Once the fiber is run, and paid for there really are virtually no costs.
Overall they may need to make enough to pay for their staff and equipment costs, but they could easilly add another customer without adding virtually any costs to their bottom line. It comes down to how much business you are going to do with the company, we do and are going to do ALOT of business with Global Crossing. We are buying transit from them, and transport. They know this, and it is directly reflected in our pricing. |
This in response to SinEmpire's post. We use Cogent as one of our upstream providers. But unlike some hosting company's, Cogent is not our only upstream provider. We also have Verio, Qwest, and Limelight (Williams) connections. Also we are in contract negotiations for our own public and private peering at PAIX.
We have an internal policy to never exceed 50% utilization of any circuit, (even our gigabit circuits with Cogent and Verio) to assure that we will always have connectivity in the event of a failure or upstream bankruptcy. Our network engineer has worked with Cogent to identify routing/latency issues and has made BGP policy changes to help route traffic around those trouble areas with Cogent's Netrail. Cogent has had its share of growing pains with their peering, but with their recent acquisition of PSI.net, they have acquired much needed additional peering points to other networks. Another plus for Cogent is that they have a nationwide 80 gigabit/sec backbone. Some of the older networks like Verio, are still at OC-48 ( 2 gigabit) and OC-192 (10 gigabit) levels. With us, since we have multiple gigabit connections, a network with an OC-48 backbone doesn't cut it anymore. How long will Cogent be around? Who knows. But one thing is for sure, Cogent has caused every network provider out there to re-evaluate their pricing structure, and that has benefited everyone. Best Regards, Reliablehosting.com / XXXWebhosting.com Technical Department |
Good to hear good things from a webhosting company that uses Cogent. I think think the ones that bash Cogent are the ones that are too far away to get Cogent access.
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Long thread
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Nice post reliable!! And I have heard from many of your customers that they are very satisfied :)
Brad |
<snicker>
Bump, it's 2005 now! LOL God damn, I can't believe how expensive bandwidth used to be. On all levels, thanks Cogent for driving the prices of other providers down over the last 3+ years. Muhahah Brad |
I'm bumping this thread to prove my point that Brad's ranting about Alphared today is pretty much identical to his ranting about cogent and hosts that used them in 2002.
Cogent didn't go bankrupt and prices didn't go back up....instead they kept falling like a drunk guy walking through an oil slick.....and odds are they will continue to do that. Pardon me if I don't believe the predictions about bandwidth pricing at $4/meg being a temporary thing that will only last until the people offering it go bankrupt. |
i can get level 3 for $6 a meg with a 10 gig commit...
95% billing plus over subscribing would allow me to make a profit on $6 a meg all day long.. some people like to justify a higher price and i dont blame them.. why sell a chicken for $6 if someone is willing to pay $20.... i agree with brad that the b/w whores have ruined the pricing model, but like the tubes, shit comes along that makes you have to change with the times... but, for brad or anyone else to say that you cant turn a profit on $6 a meg using good b/w and providing good service is bullshit... there are so many other factors that make a hosting company operate in the red or the black... |
The masterminds of hosting are delivering in here today :) Excellent read everyone!
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nobodies perfect - hehe |
Man.. I posted here in 2002?
*hides* Good trip down memory lane though. I wonder how naive I'll think I was looking back to this moment 6 years from now :) |
In todays fast changing world on how people do business online, even hosting game will change and be effected. The way i see it, the internet is becoming more like TV ( free broadcast mostly and revenue from ads ) hence there will be more demand for all types of bandwidth. You always need both type of bandwidth, " cheap " and " quality " . Some traffic must go through " cheap " bw and some traffic must go through " quality " connection bandwidth.
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Ranting Toejo
:thumbsup |
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