Please help me settle this business dispute - Need your opinion

[Snake Doctor]

For those of you who don't know we did a Hun "challenge" with Quick Buck a little while ago.
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=596221

Now after the first gallery ran Wiseman posted this in that thread

Originally Posted by Wiseman

I will Gladly guarentee you for another Round there Lenny! Just let me know when and where baby!!!

Looks like you got your 30 joins so far..

PUT UP THAT SIG BABY!! LET THOSE COLORS SHINE!!!!

Two days later I sent Wiseman a 2nd gallery for us to run on The Hun.

Now the 2nd gallery went up on May 8, and didn't do very well. Not anyone's fault really, just bad timing plus some paycom issues that I'm sure we're all experiencing.

I talked to Wiseman about this today and his position is that the 2nd gallery wasn't guaranteed, only the first one was.
However, based on what he posted in that thread we assumed it was.

Now obviously we have a disagreement here and a communication problem. The problem could be with his sender, or my receiver, so I'd like a 2nd (and 3rd-100th) opinion here.

Based on his post and the context of that thread do you think we had a guaranteed deal or not?

[Ice]

Seems pretty clear that a guarantee was made

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

For those of you who don't know we did a Hun "challenge" with Quick Buck a little while ago.
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=596221

Now after the first gallery ran Wiseman posted this in that thread


Two days later I sent Wiseman a 2nd gallery for us to run on The Hun.

Now the 2nd gallery went up on May 8, and didn't do very well. Not anyone's fault really, just bad timing plus some paycom issues that I'm sure we're all experiencing.

I talked to Wiseman about this today and his position is that the 2nd gallery wasn't guaranteed, only the first one was.
However, based on what he posted in that thread we assumed it was.

Now obviously we have a disagreement here and a communication problem. The problem could be with his sender, or my receiver, so I'd like a 2nd (and 3rd-100th) opinion here.

Based on his post and the context of that thread do you think we had a guaranteed deal or not?

Lenny2 is gay.

[Alky]

"another round" = another challenge ... right?

[the Shemp]

i wont comment on the dispute, but a guarantee of 30 joins for a listing is out of whack...too many variables....

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

Lenny2 is gay.

Just because you have homosexual fantasies about me doesn't mean that I'm gay.

[woj]

how many signups did the 2nd gallery do?

[spunkmaster]

"Now the 2nd gallery went up on May 8, and didn't do very well. Not anyone's fault really, just bad timing plus some paycom issues that I'm sure we're all experiencing.
"


Why not do a do-over ?

[Wiseman]

Lenny wtf you doing? We are sitting here talking about this shit trying to work it out. and right in the middle of it you decide to take it public. NICE JOB MAN. I told you I would gladly do a nother Challenge name the Time and date. You then Ran another Hun Listing at some Random time The day after someone else Ran a Add for Taxicams as well. THAT ISNT MY PROBLEM. You never one time came to me before you ran the listing and said "OK I am going to run another listing. Are you going to Guarentee me? YOU JUST RAN IT.
And then today you hit me up and we been talking af a away to resolve this. And now you decide to just take it public... LOL

[Wiseman]

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

"Now the 2nd gallery went up on May 8, and didn't do very well. Not anyone's fault really, just bad timing plus some paycom issues that I'm sure we're all experiencing.
"


Why not do a do-over ?

I told him today he ran it the Day after someone else just Ran a TaxiCams ad on there. I told him he should run our Celeb site or something being used on a merchant.

The point here is he JUST RAN it EXPECTING it to be a Guarentee.
And then today I been sitting here talking to him trying to figure out what to do. And now I get back to my office and I see this. lol anyway

[OG LennyT]

Originally Posted by Wiseman
I will Gladly guarentee you for another Round there Lenny! Just let me know when and where baby!!!

Looks like you got your 30 joins so far..

PUT UP THAT SIG BABY!! LET THOSE COLORS SHINE!!!!

he misspelled guarantee

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by Wiseman

Lenny wtf you doing? We are sitting here talking about this shit trying to work it out. and right in the middle of it you decide to take it public. NICE JOB MAN. I told you I would gladly do a nother Challenge name the Time and date. You then Ran another Hun Listing at some Random time The day after someone else Ran a Add for Taxicams as well. THAT ISNT MY PROBLEM. You never one time came to me before you ran the listing and said "OK I am going to run another listing. Are you going to Guarentee me? YOU JUST RAN IT.
And then today you hit me up and we been talking af a away to resolve this. And now you decide to just take it public... LOL

Haha...I guess that is one thing me, you, and hooper can agree on...Lenny2 is pretty much a dick.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by Wiseman

Lenny wtf you doing? We are sitting here talking about this shit trying to work it out. and right in the middle of it you decide to take it public. NICE JOB MAN. I told you I would gladly do a nother Challenge name the Time and date. You then Ran another Hun Listing at some Random time The day after someone else Ran a Add for Taxicams as well. THAT ISNT MY PROBLEM. You never one time came to me before you ran the listing and said "OK I am going to run another listing. Are you going to Guarentee me? YOU JUST RAN IT.
And then today you hit me up and we been talking af a away to resolve this. And now you decide to just take it public... LOL

We were talking about it? Is that what you call what we were doing?

First I messaged you to tell you that my check was $300 short, and all you said was "email so and so, they handle payouts"
Not an "I'm sorry about that" not an "I'll make sure we get it fixed"..nothing like that. You're supposed to be the "go to" guy there, you should be emailing the guy who handles payouts not me.

Then I brought up the guarantee deal and sent you a link to your post where you said you'd guarantee a 2nd gallery and you insulted me, basically suggested that I was delusional if I thought you were guaranteeing another gallery.
I even offered to lower the guarantee number because we did more than 30 joins on the first gallery, to which your reply was "LOL"

Then after your tirade I didn't get another message from you for over 2 hours. You left for the day, without telling me you were taking off or saying something like "we'll talk about this tomorrow I have to go for now"....nothing like that.

Then I come to the boards, I don't say anything derogatory about you or your company, I simply ask people if I'm off my rocker for thinking that you said you'd guarantee the 2nd gallery.

I think that we had a deal and you reneged. You think that we didn't have a deal in the first place. I just came here to ask other webmasters if they think we had an agreement or not based on what was said here.
I don't see how that makes me a bad guy.

[Luc Lonely]

Hooper is/was a cheater/scammer. before he ripped me 1000s of dollars via his dialer program.
long time ago thou, can't remember, but it must be 4 years +

[Tempest]

Seems clear cut to me...

"I will Gladly guarentee" - done deal, go ahead Lenny.

"Just let me know when and where baby!!!" - all the details are for you to decide Lenny, just inform me of them.

It's a shame people can't live up to their word even if they fuck up when making it. You said it, now live with the consequences.

[Quick Buck]

I'll put my two cents in here and as usual I think this is a case of miscommunication:

1) Yes we're willing to guarantee another gallery. With the first gallery you showed it to us and we suggested some changes that we felt were important to make it convert well.

2) My understanding is that the second listing was never seen, approved or guaranteed. The only way we even knew that you listed another gallery was because our webmaster mentioned it to us the day after.

3) Wiseman feels that it was not a guarantee because you didn't let him know that you were planning on submitting the listing as he said "tell me where and when" in the post where he guaranteed it.

I think it's unreasonable to expect us to offer signup guarantees when you don't involve us in any portion of the decision process about the site you'll be promoting, the date you'll be promoting or the gallery you'll be using. What if you had put up the worst gallery ever? What if you had put up a listing on the same day as another affiliate?

With that said, we are not "renigging" on any deals, we're simply saying that if you would like us to guarantee a listing that you have to involve us in the process and decision making.

[Tom_PM]

Well as a casual observer I'll say this. I read the whole first page of the original thread, and it references "the gallery", "a gallery", "the gallery" over and over again. Maybe sometime later a second round was mentioned, but the original "challenge" was clearly one gallery.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Well as a casual observer I'll say this. I read the whole first page of the original thread, and it references "the gallery", "a gallery", "the gallery" over and over again. Maybe sometime later a second round was mentioned, but the original "challenge" was clearly one gallery.

Gee you read the whole first page but did you notice the quote I put at the top of this thread that was from the SECOND PAGE?
That's what we're talking about here.

[minusonebit]

Wow, this thead is fun.

Seems to me that someone is just wayyyy to eagar to call the other guy a scammer here. Lenny2, you should have worked this out in private and posted here as a last resort. You call someone out in front of the whole industry as a last resort, not as the first resort. (Note: this does not apply to ePassporte or iBill).

[Tom_PM]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

Gee you read the whole first page but did you notice the quote I put at the top of this thread that was from the SECOND PAGE?
That's what we're talking about here.

Yes and yes. The 1st deal was for a single gallery, with all sorts of stipulations about reviewing it before it was submitted and so forth.

There was never a deal to just make and submit a second one with no review or anything else. "another round" would absolutely imply all of the same conditions of the first "round".

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by minusonebit

Wow, this thead is fun.

Seems to me that someone is just wayyyy to eagar to call the other guy a scammer here. Lenny2, you should have worked this out in private and posted here as a last resort. You call someone out in front of the whole industry as a last resort, not as the first resort. (Note: this does not apply to ePassporte or iBill).

I haven't said one derogatory thing, not once have I hurled an insult at these people.

Go troll somewhere else noob.
I tried discussing this in private and was dismissed out of hand, so I came here to find out if I'm out of line for thinking I was promised something that I didn't receive.

If my intention was to start shit the thread title would have been "DRAMA!!! SCAMMERS!! RIPOFF!!!".....but nothing like that has been said.
So drink a big glass of STFU.

[GTS Mark]

I dunno Lenny, sounds like you should have chatted with Quickbuck before you ran another spot and expected to be paid a guarantee. I don't think it's fair to them to have run it without giving them the once over on the design and content... If I was going to pay you for guaranteed amount of signups I sure as shit would want to see the gallery before it was ran (not after).

Just my 2 cents

DH

P.S. Wiseman your fucking sig is giving me seizures LOL!

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Yes and yes. The 1st deal was for a single gallery, with all sorts of stipulations about reviewing it before it was submitted and so forth.

There was never a deal to just make and submit a second one with no review or anything else. "another round" would absolutely imply all of the same conditions of the first "round".

Date : 4/26/2006 Time : 10:54 PM
<ICQ CONVO>
To : Lenny
Hey man, you want to take another shot on The Hun with a taxicams gallery?



Date : 4/27/2006 Time : 1:19 AM
To : Lenny
yo yo Ryan.

Hit me up first chance you get.
I've got another taxicams gallery for the hun and
also I wanna talk to you about which billing option to use for the celeb site.



Date : 4/27/2006 Time : 1:36 PM
From : WISEMAN
hey whats up


Date : 4/27/2006 Time : 1:37 PM
To : Lenny
http://www.amateurcleavage.com/taxicams2.zip

That's a boy/girl gallery....as soon as your guy
gets it uploaded I'll send it over to the hun.

Also...which option is better for the celeb
stuff....free trial or paid trial?


Date : 4/27/2006 Time : 1:38 PM
From : WISEMAN
please email that to [email protected]
</ICQ CONVO>

This conversation happened shortly after Wiseman posted "I'll gladly guarantee you another round"
It was the 2nd gallery I'd ever done for quickbuck, therefore it seems pretty logical that it was the "2nd round".
Since they hosted it, uploaded it and then sent me the url, I don't see how they can say "He just ran one without telling us and now expects us to guarantee it"

True I didn't specifically say "Here's the gallery, you're going to guarantee it right?", but I didn't realize I was dealing with a bunch of lawyers and had to choose my words so carefully.
I also didn't say "Hey you guys are going to mail me a check this week for last pay period right?"...but if I didn't then it would be ok to not send me my check?

If you say you're going to mail payouts on Fridays, I expect you to mail payouts on Fridays. If you say you're going to guarantee the second gallery, I expect you to keep your word on that as well.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by DrinkingHARDEST

I dunno Lenny, sounds like you should have chatted with Quickbuck before you ran another spot and expected to be paid a guarantee. I don't think it's fair to them to have run it without giving them the once over on the design and content... If I was going to pay you for guaranteed amount of signups I sure as shit would want to see the gallery before it was ran (not after).

Just my 2 cents

DH

P.S. Wiseman your fucking sig is giving me seizures LOL!

Well hopefully what I just posted will clear up this "myth" that I just ran a gallery without telling anyone and now I want a check.

[Tom_PM]

Oh ok, well I didnt see that in the thread, sorry. Guess you'll have to work it out with em.

"Hey you guys are going to mail me a check this week for last pay period right?"

That sounds like how Insite Adult paid, haha.

[FetishTom]

Its a question of interpretation and see no problem in canvessing third parties as to how they would have interpreted the post in question.

I would say the post does offer a guarantee on the second gallery. Equally though I would have checked prior to submitting that this was indeed the case and are we good to go yada yada.

In short. The initial post was a little rash in seeming to offer a guarantee and the accepter was naive in not checking or clearing it first with the poster.

Judgement. Both sides to give a little as both are at fault and then kiss and make up

[minusonebit]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

I haven't said one derogatory thing, not once have I hurled an insult at these people.

Go troll somewhere else noob.
I tried discussing this in private and was dismissed out of hand, so I came here to find out if I'm out of line for thinking I was promised something that I didn't receive.

If my intention was to start shit the thread title would have been "DRAMA!!! SCAMMERS!! RIPOFF!!!".....but nothing like that has been said.
So drink a big glass of STFU.

hahaha, everyone who calls you an ass is right. You asked for an opinion of a situation and you got one, you twat. What you should have said is "Who here agrees with my take on this", because thats what you seem to be wanting.

[Sly]

My thought is, maybe you both should have been more clear on intentions. You should both chalk it up as a lesson learned, Lenny should get paid the difference on the actual joins and guaranteed joins, then try it again and salvage the relationship. So in other words if there were 20 actual sales and 30 guaranteed sales, Lenny gets paid for 25. You're both unhappy but happy enough to admit some fault and move on to the next step.

What are we talking about here? Couple hundred bucks? Come on guys.

[Sly]

My thought is, maybe you both should have been more clear on intentions. You should both chalk it up as a lesson learned, Lenny should get paid the difference on the actual joins and guaranteed joins, then try it again and salvage the relationship. So in other words if there were 20 actual sales and 30 guaranteed sales, Lenny gets paid for 25. You're both unhappy but happy enough to admit some fault and move on to the next step.

What are we talking about here? Couple hundred bucks? Come on guys.

[Doctor Dre]

Sounds like it wasn't 100 % clear ... you guys should just cut it in the middle3

[Wiseman]

Jesus this is absolutely rediculous. Lenny I even fucking told you that maybe run the Celeb one and we woould see how it did and then maybe compensate you something else. Shit like this pisses me off. I mean i do all I can to help my affiliates get the most for there bang. I give hosting Content Higher pay pay outs. Make Guarentees for one. and then another one goes to shit and poof now I am a thief and a scammer. Aand as far as emailing a person. I fucking said EMAIL KRIS! HE HANDLES OUR PAYOUTS! HE WILL FIX IT. Not sure what more you wanted me to do there. I guess I coulda run over to your house and dropped off $300. now I aam done with this shit. If you waant to Send to the Celeb Rock and Roll aand you got it. I WILL GUARENTEE YOU AT LEAST 30 SALES OFF IT if it is in the top 10 on THE HUN. Just let me know the schedualed dayae so I can make sure we dont have the same site up there in the #1 SPOT THE DAY PRIOR!

[Wiseman]

I would be more then willing do do alot of things. But then like I told LENNY last night. I ha to go last night for family things and we would taalk about it today. BAAAA Anyway Lenny you know where I am at I aam done pissing on this. I would just ather make money with you

[Snake Doctor]

Wiseman and I have worked out a compromise. Everything's back to business as usual.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback

[Snake Doctor]

Wiseman and I have worked out a compromise. Everything's back to business as usual.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback

[FUCKED_BY_IBILL]

Originally Posted by Wiseman

Jesus this is absolutely rediculous. Lenny I even fucking told you that maybe run the Celeb one and we woould see how it did and then maybe compensate you something else. Shit like this pisses me off. I mean i do all I can to help my affiliates get the most for there bang. I give hosting Content Higher pay pay outs. Make Guarentees for one. and then another one goes to shit and poof now I am a thief and a scammer. Aand as far as emailing a person. I fucking said EMAIL KRIS! HE HANDLES OUR PAYOUTS! HE WILL FIX IT. Not sure what more you wanted me to do there. I guess I coulda run over to your house and dropped off $300. now I aam done with this shit. If you waant to Send to the Celeb Rock and Roll aand you got it. I WILL GUARENTEE YOU AT LEAST 30 SALES OFF IT if it is in the top 10 on THE HUN. Just let me know the schedualed dayae so I can make sure we dont have the same site up there in the #1 SPOT THE DAY PRIOR!

Hey Wiseman, whats this Hun gallery about? And how can I get in? Sounds like I can make some money here to offset the ones IBILL/ETELEGATE stoled from me.

[bigdog]

Was the other taxi cam gallery listed on the same day and higher then lenny's gallery?

[Rui]

wtf is your problem, dont you have nothing better to do...gezzz

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

OK....

So when the gurantee thing is on and they know what gallery is "Guranteed" the ratio's are better and when its not guranteed they are worse.

My how odd...

I think everyone should get a gurantee.

[Quick Buck]

alien, you're classless and clueless as usual.