Mr.Fiction

Can you imagine if this story was about Clinton? The impeachment papers would already be drawn up.

Bush Knew Of Hijack Threat

(AP) President George W. Bush was told by U.S. intelligence in advance of the Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network might hijack American airplanes, the White House acknowledged Wednesday night.

But officials said the president and his advisers had no way of knowing that suicide hijackers would use the planes as missiles, as they did against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

"There has been long-standing speculation, shared with the president, about the potential of hijackings in the traditional sense but none involving suicide bombings or the use of airplanes as missiles," White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said. "I also indicated that we had general threats involving Osama bin Laden around the world and including in the United States."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in509096.shtml

Babaganoosh

Shithole, third-world countries envy the United States. There is never a time when someone, somewhere has not issued a credible threat against us. If we got all upset every time some bearded radical threatened us, we'd be under lockdown 24/7. No big deal. There is no way he could have known.

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Mr.Fiction

Over 6 months later Bush is being forced to admit that he knew about the attacks before they happened. Why is he being forced to admit it? Because investigators found evidence that he knew. He didn't admit this on his own, he was forced to before he was exposed by investigators.

Just watch. This is not over. Bush makes Clinton look like a fucking saint.

Mr.Fiction

Here is more on this breaking story:

WASHINGTON, May 14 The classified memorandum written by an F.B.I. agent in Phoenix last summer urging bureau headquarters to investigate Middle Eastern men enrolled in American flight schools also cited Osama bin Laden by name and suggested that his followers could use the schools to train for terror operations, government officials said for the first time today.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ited_bin_laden

bdld

depends how you define "he knew". bush didnt know what date it was going to be on nor the exact details. not even some of the hijackers knew the details as to what would happen.
about a year ago in the phillipines some information was discovered that showed that islamic extremists were planning to smash airplanes into buildings, which wasnt classified info, i doubt it even made the news though since such threats were common.
the only real question is should we have been told about rumors and potential plots pre-sept 11. if we were told back then, i dont think we woul have panicked or changed anything. post-sept 11 theyre issuing warnings left and right and we're all about security.

LiveDose

Mr. Fiction, your name says it all. What the fuck could he have done? If he had tried to put money into more airport security or tried taking away privacy rights just think of the whining Democrats would have done about social security being raped and about Arabs being targeted unfairly.

Hind sight is 20/20 fool. Wake the fuck up!

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Mr.Fiction

Dude, keep on making excuses.

The guy was told specific information about Bin Laden planning to attack the United States by hijacking airplanes. He was also told that terrorists may be training at flight schools in the United States.

What did he do?

He took a 30 day vacation at his ranch in Texas.

A month later thousands of Americans were dead.

If you think that's ok, then that's your opinion.

Most Americans expect a little more from a president.

LiveDose

you're a funny guy...

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Mr.Fiction

I try.

jimmyf

Very funny.... Very.... Indeed...

Do really think he would have let it that shit happen if he knew it was going to happen..... Do you really believe if he did know it was going to happen he would not have stopped it.... Do you really....... If you do you have a problem...... And should seek out some help...

Jesus A Fucking Christ..... Shit Fire and Save matches........

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volante

WARNING - the following WILL happen. Over the next few days, hundreds of innocent motorists will die in car accidents. Don't know which ones, don't know exactly when, but it will happen.

Should the government ban everyone from using cars?

FATPad

Love those Monday morning quarterback types. I wish I had the GIFT of hindsight like some of these people do.

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mijoon

Perfect answer volante !
I guess not all the lefty flakes are up here in Canada .

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Mr.Fiction

Interesting that many of the right wingers are all for personal responsibility and taking blame for your fuck ups when it comes to Bill Clinton or poor people.

But when Bush fucks up, it's everyone elses fault.

So many excuses.

Rich J.

I really have no idea what went down but from the sound of it Ol' George had alot more warning than the 3000 that died that day.

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LiveDose

trust me, if right wingers had there way this terrorism bullshit would be nipped in the bud very very quickly but then people would start complaining about the tactics.

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Hawkeye

What's funny is that the same people who will criticize Bush for this will also say that the government should be in charge of airport security.

NetRodent

1 FBI agent wrote a warning about terrorists flying planes into buildings, 500 FBI agents wrote warnings about other possible attacks that didn't take place. Warnings like that one happen all the time, sometimes the warnings are just rumors, sometimes the warnings allow the threat to be stopped and sometimes unfortunately the attacks manage to get through.

Mr.Fiction

Sure they would. Like when Bush senior trained and funded Bin Landen in the first place?

edite to remove off topic stuff

LiveDose

Ah, good Mr. Fiction your politics is finally truly coming out. Ok, no point in continuing this discussion... Don't worry maybe someday Hillary will be elected and all your pent up anger will go away....

Good luck bro.

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FATPad

*rolls eyes*

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Mr.Fiction

You giving up on making excuses for Bush already?

LiveDose

No man, actually it's just that you are boring...

If I want to throw 1 liners back and forth I'll call up my 2 year old cousin. Write something intelligent and you'll get responses. The topic is good, like I said before you are just boring....

LiveDose

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TopTGP

Bush is a puppet. Sure, he may make some of the smaller, less severe decisions, but for the most part, its the people you DON'T see that are making most of the major decisions.

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Mr.Fiction

It's not worth spending a lot of time to argue with people who are going to defend Bush simply because he is a right winger, no matter what he does. If someone hasn't figured out in the last year and a half what a total fuck Bush is, then they aren't going to admit it ever.

If Bill Clinton had been president, and he had allowed 9/11 to happen because of his incompetence, or worse, like Bush apparently did, then some of the same people who are making excuses, would be calling for impeachment.

I don't expect most people to admit that. I just think it's rather ironic and somewhat sad.

Right wingers generally talk a big game about thinking for yourself and taking responsibility. When it comes to their own leaders, however, they rarely live up to the talk.

That's all. Flame away.

FATPad

Fiction, that whole argument is stupid. It can just as easily be turned around.

Why is it only when something happens while a republican is in office do the democrats suddenly have this overwhelming sense of personal responsibility? The rest of time, nothing is anyone's fault.

Find a real argument or go away.

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Mr.Fiction

Yawn.

At least you didn't even attempt to defend Bush. I don't blame you.

FATPad

The more I watch the world, the more I understand why the symbol of the Democratic party is a jackass.

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ammo325

Do you have a thought on what he was supposed to do?

Check this out. All this shit happened when Clinton was in office,
1. The first WTC bombing, what did he do? Nothing.
2. Kohbar Towers, where our miltary slept at night in Saudia Arabia, got blown to shit. What did he do? Nothing.
3. Military gunship got shot out of the sky in Somalia or some other location. What did he do? Nothing.
4. USS Cole Naval ship, bashed up with a suicide bomber. What did he do? Nothing.

All these incidents had credible warning. What did he do about it? Nothing.

Thats the difference, as soon as Mr Butthead Liar Liberal left office and George (Gonads) Bush steps up. He fucks the terrorists asses up as soon as the do something stupid.

So you see, if Mr Clinton would have acted, all this could have been prevented.

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LiveDose

Ok, it's really not a matter of defending Bush. The presidency has an immense amount of powers but they are limited in scale. To say that everyone was waiting on the edge of their seats for Bush to make a decision in ludicrous.

The true responsibilty lies in the area of intelligence or their lack of. People that don't like Bush are the ones turning this into a political issue. This is an American issue and a world issue.

I think it is much more disgraceful for people to be turning this into a political issue. The fact is the problem needs to be solved or else there are going to be dirty suitcase bombs blowing up in free countries around the world.

Show true hard evidence that Bush AND HIS ADMINISTRATION wanted this to happen or ignored SOLID INTELLIGENCE (who, what, where, when) and did nothing and you will have many people loyal to him that will start questioning. The thing is when you have Democrats making an issue out of the Republican party selling his photos taken on 9/11 at a fundraiser it is hard to take anything they say seriously in regards to this issue. Plain and simple they are trying to bring down Bush's popularity before the campaigning begins.

On a final note let's say there was some kind of information saying that an attack was going to happen the week of 9/11. What steps would you have taken? Remember this is before we have been attacked and everyone still values their privacy over all else... It is hard to answer this question because what you would have tolerated before the attack and what you will tolerate now interms of security and inconvenience is very different.

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Mr.Fiction

I totally agree. Those disgusting Democrats. The ones whose most recent president led this country through eight years of relative peace and exceptional prosperity. Those dirty filthy scum. Who needs peace? Who needs prosperity? Only a communist wants that!

These evil Democrats must be stopped before they bring us more of this dirty disgusting peace and prosperity!

Mr.Fiction

When I made the original post of the new story I said to myself. Who will be the first to blame Bill Clinton?

You win! Classic.

ammo325

What do I win? An "I'm having a conversation with ignorant!" t-shirt?

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Mr.Fiction

What did Bush know? We don't know that yet. Only today he was forced by investigators to admit that he knew more than anyone thought. Time will tell how Bush is implicated in this. It is very clear, however, that all of the pieces of the puzzle were available if someone would have just put them together.

You wanted proof that someone should have known the attacks were coming? This is from one of the articles:

Despite the FBI's insistence that it had no prior knowledge of the September 11 attacks, Mr Mueller conceded that a few days earlier, an agent in Minneapolis wrote a memo stating that a man in custody might have been planning to "fly something into the World Trade Centre".

Zacarias Moussaoui, a French-Moroccan Muslim fundamentalist, faces the death penalty on charges that he was the "20th hijacker" who would have taken part in the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington if he had not been arrested for immigration offences.

Officials have also admitted that in July 2001 an agent in Phoenix, Arizona, urged FBI headquarters to investigate Arab men studying in American flight schools. He cited Osama bin Laden by name and suggested that the schools could have been used to train terrorists. The warnings were never connected and Mr Mueller, who took over the FBI two weeks before the terrorist attacks, has accepted that more could have been done.

Mr.Fiction

Yes. Here's the design on the back.

LiveDose

All of this was brewing in the background "through eight years of relative peace and exceptional prosperity".

I still don't understand what you wanted the FBI to do with these random strings of "evidence". You are now analyzing this from the point of view of, after the fact. It is always easy to connect the dots after someone has done it already.

See your "evidence" is accusing the FBI of wrong doing. No one will argue that more can always be done. Yes, the FBI has gone through a few pretty disturbing years but it is the agency that needs to be cleaned up. You are still not convincing anyone that BUSH was responsible for the attack...

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DTK

To think that the administration did not receive would be naive, I think. However, as a couple people mentioned 'credible threats' are received daily. I mean how the hell do you sift through all that? That's the hard part.

One other thing. It is true that the US supported obl during the russia-afghanistan war.

TheFLY

If you think it's beyond belief that the most poweful men in the world are above blowing up a few thousand people -- you've got your head in the sand. Sometimes there's a big picture and the news don't mean shit.

TopCashQ

Blaiming Bush for what happened on 9/11 = ridiculous.
Suggesting that Clinton is somehow responsible for it = just as ridiculous.

A President can only act on specific, confirmed and credible intelligence. The FBI report in question was highly speculative, and did not name any hijackers by name, did not concern the flight schools that the terrorists attended, and offered no specifics as to when or where such an attack would occur.

Assuming that the information we have been provided about the nature of the attacks is accurate, then there were precisely 19 people who were directly responsible for the terrorist acts. Beyond those 19 were the who-knows-how-many that helped to plan and fund the operation. These are the people responsible for the attack. End of story.

The responsibility for protecting us falls on our various intelligence agencies, not the President. It's easy to say that more should have been done to prevent the attacks. For my part, I think adequate, basic security measures (like a secure cockpit door, perhaps?) were the real failures on that day.

One of the costs of having an open and free society is that we are susceptible to attack by those with the will to do us harm. Sure, we can prevent things like 9/11 from happening again: simply ground all air transportation, close the borders, declare perpetual martial law, require that all citizens carry documentation proving their citizenship, and institute random searches of all homes, hotels, homeless shelters and street corners on a round the clock basis.

Presto! We're all safe.
Anybody want to live in a country like that? I don't think so....

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TheFLY

Yeah but it's not far from that... I've been checked for citizenship while driving through Texas... And are you forgetting the Patriot Act that Bush signed?

http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveilla..._analysis.html

And what about that 250 BILLION dollar world domination missle defense system that've been able to push since 9/11? HAHA!!

TopCashQ

Don't get me wrong - I'm no fan of the patriot act, or practically any other piece of legislation enacted by Bush's DOJ. A lot of bad legislation will be pushed through using the technique invoking the events of 9/11. It's also true that there's a political climate in place wherein anyone who disagrees with the prevailing wisdom about what to do to combat terrorism (i.e. take military action in any number of countries where they allegedly "promote" terrorism or harbor terrorists) is considered unpatriotic.

Personally, I don't think there is a 100% "right" way to combat terrorism. Military action, while potentially effective at getting rid of current terrorists, tends to breed further resentment in the countries where we take the military action, thereby inspiring another generation of youth to become terrorists. On the other hand, there's no such thing as diplomacy when it comes to Al Qaeda; I don't think we could trust any treaty/agreement they signed, even if they had any interest in such treaties.

Whatever you think of the way the "war on terror" is being handled, we are far from becoming the kind of police state I described in my previous post. I spent some time in Central America back in the 80's, and saw what real police states are like, first hand. (Police states our government was actively supporting with military and financial aid, by the way....)

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Platinum Cherry

How can you possibly compare Bush to Clinton? One just had is dick stuffed in someone's mouth and the other... well it is a bit more extreme dontcha think?

What could he have done to prevent what happened. I am thinking warned or not warned this horrible event was going to take place anyways. If not the Trade Centre then it would have been something else.

Cher~

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TheFLY

Sure I agree...

Anyway the topic of this thread suprises me... The intelligence agencies don't answer to anyone -- so why even bother bothering BUSH with this "new" info... Bah... anyway I don't care. Hehe.

Fat Dave

Just the fact that this report made it to the President's desk and Bush received a briefing on it from the head of the CIA tells me that our intelligence services took this threat very seriously. Yet, this Administration took no action. This seems like a serious fuck up to me. So much so that the White House has tried to hide it from the press and public until being forced to come clean.