An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

If that happens to be zero, then unfortunatly for the owner or producer of the item; thats all that person is willing to offer, if you don't like the idea of zero then they'll chose an alternative or steal it.

*I think*, people paying for porn, music, etc, there needs to be more flexibility. Although logically a system that sells content at a price everyone is happy to part with is probley impossible to implement. Example, Maybe potential customer A is willing to pay $25 a month for access, fine sold. Maybe potential customer B is willing to pay $1 a month for access. Your better off getting that $1 a month off B because anything more he's just going to go steal it or look else where. Basic economic concept, it's not flawless because of many factors but bleh, would be nice if we could all charge what people are willing to pay.

:1orglaugh .. but why do you say people dont understand that? Its still no excuse!!! Consume is consume, no matter how you gained it!
ok, I can't explain it simpler than that :1orglaugh :upsidedow

CDs for music suck ass, I won't even bother with CDs anymore. To me they are old pos technology. In this day n age my music is listened via my computer and mp3 player. Which can connect to any stereo in the house, and even my truck.

So, If I'm listening to my music via mp3 - on all my media centers (computer/handheld/home & car stereo). Why am I going to buy the CD just to bring it home, rip it to my comp, then throw away the CD? Or, purchase a devilishly encoded media file of iTunes that throws a shit fit if I try to transfer it.

The moral of the story is, no one listens to CDs anymore. Fuck if I'm people will pay for something they don't need. If there was an iTunes type service that allowed users to download unlocked mp3 format music. It would most certainly be in massive use (even if it required payment)..

There are very intelligent people at GFY. This thread makes me smile and have hope.

btw.. Just want to say. I do have an iTunes account and use it all the time. As 98% of the my music played is from my desktop. But it's an extreme pita if I want to make the music mobile and bring it with me. So it's not my "main source" for music.

I dont think its so much about willing with money, otherwise why steal something that has zero value? ...unless it gives you a kick to steal... I think its more about able to pay and the time willing to spend.

Any band that signs a label these days is a total idiot.

I didn't say it was an excuse. I didn't try to justify piracy.
I am saying this: A person who NEVER planned to buy your product DOES NOT do you economical damage by NOT purchasing your product.

I was just about to post that link...Albini is a man who I definetely respect.

I am in a band, and I am also a producer of music. One thing I know is that the reason I ever got involved in either one of those things was the fucking love for it. That is why I don't mind anyone downloading and listening to our songs off soulseek or something. All our releases are on vinyl anyway, so anybody who has actually taken the time to rip our music off vinyl, well good for them.

Now what I do have a HUGE fucking problem with are cocksuckers like http://www.last.fm/ who are cataloguing every band, be it mainstream or underground, listing their songs and upselling the full albums to people. And guess what...the bands don't get fucking SHIT. How is this shit legal? Or am I completely wrong about them?

Agreed. But the moment someone USE the product, stolen, then it IS loss, because he have no right to use it without paying for it, no matter what he is willing/able to pay :)

50.........

Well, sadly it is nearly impossible for a band to make it big without the help of a major label. There are a few exceptions, but there are always exceptions to every rule. Most bands I know, when they were starting out, didn't have the millions it takes to make a record, shoot a video and get played on the radio. There is a great book by one of the guys from a band called Semisonic called, "So you want to be a rock star?" It tells how they went from being nobody to behing huge and back to nobody. Basically it costs anywhere from 300K-500K to get a new band played on the radio. I don't mean played on a local independent radio station ( which are almost extinct by the way ) but played nation wide.

Big labels can be evil, but they can also be a big help. A band has to decide: would they rather get screwed by a record label and not make much of CD sales but sell out tours and make money on publishing and radio play and play in front of 3,000 people a night, or would they rather play in front of 300 people a night and make $4 a CD? either way can work for you, but if you have aspirations of being a big band you need the power that a major label can provide.

amen!

make those fuckers pay!

Rubbish.

While this may be true for tanglible items, like food, it's bullshit when you come to something like music.

Pretend you're a band. You have a CD. The CD is on the internet.
I would NEVER buy your music, because I don't buy music. I download your CD.

You HAVE NOT LOST any money.

Now while that is illegal, I can only say again:

Someone who WAS NEVER GOING TO BE a customer CANNOT cause you financial loss.

An oldie but goodie:

" the industry has been panicked by the prospect that these numbers will grow. That is a philosophical subtlety (well beyond the resolution of law) so delicate that the recording industry has been left with no recourse but hyperbole. After all, the threat of future financial damages is not so persuasive as the claim of current damages. Yes, it?s a lie. Like many we have heard before, and like many we will hear again. But the moral analysis of the Napster issue (and likely resolution) requires not only that we place this "lie" in a historical context, but also that we assess its impact beyond the present... more

2hp

Sorry dude but you are wrong. So if you were never going to be a customer then why did you download it? you did it because you were curious (or whatever reason) and in the end you took something of theirs without paying for it. That is like saying, "I don't know about this book I've heard about. So I'm going to go to the book store and read the entire thing then decide if I want to buy it." Just about every band will give you a song or two for free with the singles they release. If they don't give you a full song they will give you samples of their music. You can check those out and see if you like the band and then buy their CD otherwise you just have to roll the dice and try it. But to say that you were never going to be a customer unless you got it for free still doesn't make it stealing.

I will say this though. I think smaller, lesser known bands can benefit by allowing songs and CD's to be downloaded for free this way people can check them out without any risk.

This is bullshit, noone buys CD's anymore cause they're shit, only a couple of tracks on it are ever good and noone is going to pay money for shit. Downloading MP3s however gives people instant access to the band's music and those people are the ones who end up going to the band's concerts and coughing up $$$ to support their favourite band... Fuck greedy record companies, considering how much money they make and how little they pass onto the actual bands its easy to see why the fight so hard to "ban downloading"... fuckin stingy crooks!

Jeeeez :1orglaugh

If you download the CD and listen to it... NO, I can't subtract that from my existing sales... BUT.. I did NOT make money from that you are listening to what I produced. Just because its music, movies or whatever does not mean you are not using it. Its the USAGE/LICENSE you have to pay for.

As I try to point out: I'm not losing money, but I am not earning EITHER if its stolen.

I won't argue more about this. Its just plain stupid that you say you won't buy it (i.e. no sale) but you will use it... try jumping over the fence to a concert, get caught, and explain them when you get caught; -it was not my intention to get in, but now I'm here you haven't lost any money :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :thumbsup

Yeah! Clean that fucking puke up! NOW!

But seriously -- the "major label" model is going nowhere but down. Bands don't bother to produce more than one MAYBE two good songs on an album, and then the labels have the fucking balls to rape consumers on the price, adding very little value, versus an electronic distribution. THEN, like the dinosaurs they are, they fight any form of online distribution -- even iTunes and other legal licensing services!

Maybe there's a little pain right now, but the labels definitely aren't helping themselves by suing customers instead of offering licensing methods that make sense, fighting change rather than embracing alternative revenue streams, and shoving crap down our throat instead of cultivating quality collections of music.

I'm against stealing -- you should pay for what you use -- but I think the labels should wake up and smell the Internet.

You hit the nail on the head. The major labels these days seem to not make a full album anymore. They want a couple of radio hits that they can make videos for and and then sell you a $15 CD. these days people have a way around it. they actually have proof of this now when they point out that of all the songs sold on itunes most are singles.

You only deserve to own what you can afford to buy. This is the reason why I do not own a Ferrari.

If someone who cannot afford to buy music wants to own music they can either get it for free from legal sources or they can make music themsleves. Or, horror of horrors, they can get up off their backside and earn money to buy the things they want.

It's no different than someone hacking your sites and posting passwords to your site all over the internet.

Of course it is,, thats my biz. music is not. :P

same thing happened to me -

someone hired me to produce music for their project -

they were very happy with the song,

they used the song and gave me credit on the reel.

they never paid me for the song.

its all good cause karma can be a mohterfucker.