I usually agree with the ACLU, but this is fucked up

[clickhappy]

The ACLU is fighting the law that says the Westboro Baptist Church has to say at least 300 feet away from funerals theyre protesting.

The WBC are the God Hates Fags people, and they go to funerals of people who died in war, who died of aids (regardless if theyre gay), and people who are gay and they protest them holding God hates Fags signs and yelling at the family members who are in mourning.

The ACLU is fighting this 300 feet away ban because it inhibits the rights of the protesters to go in the faces of the family members and yell at them that their deceased is going to hell.

This really pisses me off. If you had someone who just died of war or a disease or anything you dont want protesters there with signs yelling at your family.
I cant believe theyre fighting this

[clickhappy]

So say you have a brother who dies in the war and you have a funeral for him and these scumbags come with their "God hates you" signs and scream Youre Going To Hell at your family.

The law now says they have to stay 300 feet away from you so they dont disturb your peace.
The ACLU is fighting this because they have the right to get in your face and the right for you to hear their protests.

[Juilan]

The unfortunate part of protecting free speech for all is it has to be done for everyone you don't like, that's the essential part of it.


First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

P. M. Niemöller

[Grapesoda]

my understanding is that the ACLU was started and funded by the comunist party i.e. russia, during the 'cold war' to harrase the gov in the same way we're going to bother iran with our non sense and diversions . . . to cause dissent

[Barefootsies]

While I disagree with the ACLU on this as well, what the other person said is right. They have to fight for every thing involving free speech. Not just what I support.

Although I think that is disgusting people doing this shit at funerals, and if I saw them at a friend of mine's I can tell you there would be a lot more than words exchanged.

[psili]

Originally Posted by Gayest Fucking Movie Ever

President Andrew Shepherd: America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've got to want it bad, because it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil who is standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the 'land of the free'? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the 'land of the free.'"

-- note: how I know it's a lame movie; because I'm engaged, thank you very much.
-- edit: yea, I realize all lameness in knowing this quote exists and quoting it, thank you very much.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Juilan

The unfortunate part of protecting free speech for all is it has to be done for everyone you don't like, that's the essential part of it.

Their are exceptions to most rules and I think one should be made if what the original poster says is true. If your son just died, it's not unreasonable to request that people who will tell you that your son was a scumbag because of his sexual preference to stay a distance until the ceremony is over.

[clickhappy]

Originally Posted by Mike33

Their are exceptions to most rules and I think one should be made if what the original poster says is true. If your son just died, it's not unreasonable to request that people who will tell you that your son was a scumbag because of his sexual preference to stay a distance until the ceremony is over.

its true

and its not just sexual preference. If your son died fighting in Iraq or afganistan, or died in Katrina or Died on 911 they will protest the funeral, because "God is angry with America".

They protested Coretta Scott Kings funeral recently, but you didnt see any coverage of it on tv.

The aclu is fighting to protect the rights of these scumbags to get up close when protesting fucking funerals of all places.

[Juilan]

Originally Posted by Mike33

Their are exceptions to most rules and I think one should be made if what the original poster says is true. If your son just died, it's not unreasonable to request that people who will tell you that your son was a scumbag because of his sexual preference to stay a distance until the ceremony is over.

IMO what they are saying is beyond ignorant and the assembly at funerals is downright insulting. I don't like it either. But they have a right to be idiots and protest. Hopefully the gay community will show up and protest them.

[clickhappy]

Originally Posted by Juilan

IMO what they are saying is beyond ignorant and the assembly at funerals is downright insulting. I don't like it either. But they have a right to be idiots and protest. Hopefully the gay community will show up and protest them.

its not the gay community theyre attaching, its any community thats american.

They protested gay funerals for years and the newsmedia didnt give a shit. But now theyre protesting funerals of people who died at war, and in died in big tragedies.
And the ACLU is supporting them.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by clickhappy

its true

and its not just sexual preference. If your son died fighting in Iraq or afganistan, or died in Katrina or Died on 911 they will protest the funeral, because "God is angry with America".

They protested Coretta Scott Kings funeral recently, but you didnt see any coverage of it on tv.

The aclu is fighting to protect the rights of these scumbags to get up close when protesting fucking funerals of all places.

Pure idiocy... those attending the funeral may have even disagreed with the reasons the person died for. This does nothing except directly hurt the innocent family members left behind.

If you feel God is angry and caused Katrina, that's fine, keep it to yourself or your Church or anywhere you want but not at the funeral of a hapless victim of the storm where his family is mourning.

I could think of any number of ridiculous scenarios where theoretically "Free Speech" could be permitted but isn't and shouldn't. Maybe it's less an issue of free speech and more an issue of personal space, or collective space.

[pr0]

Originally Posted by Wanton

my understanding is that the ACLU was started and funded by the comunist party i.e. russia, during the 'cold war' to harrase the gov in the same way we're going to bother iran with our non sense and diversions . . . to cause dissent

Does it really matter if some bad people have funded an orginization in the past? Honestly?

The fact is the ACLU is our last line of defense. And when i say "our" i don't mean pornographers, i've been out of porn for years....i mean the people...the "little man". A large voice for those without one.

[pr0]

Originally Posted by Juilan

The unfortunate part of protecting free speech for all is it has to be done for everyone you don't like, that's the essential part of it.


First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

P. M. Niemöller

perfection

[Drake]

Originally Posted by pr0

The fact is the ACLU is our last line of defense. And when i say "our" i don't mean pornographers, i've been out of porn for years....i mean the people...the "little man". A large voice for those without one.

That doesn't mean they can be wrong in a position that they take? I'm all for groups looking out for the "little man" but I don't see how this is in any way doing that.

[pr0]

Originally Posted by Mike33

That doesn't mean they can be wrong in a position that they take? I'm all for groups looking out for the "little man" but I don't see how this is in any way doing that.

.

If you say (x) group can't goto (x) spot....then you open up the ability to ban (y) group from going to (y) spot.

And no....nothing is sacred.

If people want the church signs gone....they can do like the rest of us, & kick some mother fuckers square in the nuts.

[kane]

nevermind

[clickhappy]

Originally Posted by pr0

.


If people want the church signs gone....they can do like the rest of us, & kick some mother fuckers square in the nuts.

and then get charged with assault and battery.

So a baby dies from hurricane Katrina and these people come and protest it. Getting in the parents face and yelling at the baby's parents and theyre going to hell and their baby deserved to die and is going to hell. And the ACLU supports this.

why doesnt the ACLU put this on their website?
Because they know a lot of their members will fucking Freak that their membership dues are going to support this.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by clickhappy

The ACLU is fighting this 300 feet away ban because it inhibits the rights of the protesters to go in the faces of the family members and yell at them that their deceased is going to hell.

This really pisses me off. If you had someone who just died of war or a disease or anything you dont want protesters there with signs yelling at your family.
I cant believe theyre fighting this

Agree ch...

I'll tolerate almost any idiots without violence, but any bastard who causes offense to friends or family, whether at a funeral or not will experience future accidents in due time.

There is no need for freedom of speech - freedom of expression with some impact has a more memorable pain. It's called justice - democratic-style. They are sickos.

[Juilan]

Originally Posted by kane

nevermind

Post your Larry Flynt quote again it was appropriate.

[Xaid]

julian and psili are dead on right. do i hate what those fucking religous fanatics do? yes, will i defend their right to do it in a non-violent way? absolutely, its what being an american is truly about

[pr0]

Originally Posted by Xaid

julian and psili are dead on right. do i hate what those fucking religous fanatics do? yes, will i defend their right to do it in a non-violent way? absolutely, its what being an american is truly about

know what else is american?

kicking a muthafucka square in the nuts for mouthing off at a relatives funeral

so go right ahead & be protected by law to do it,....but don't be suprised if i cave your head in

[clickhappy]

btw the law doesnt say they cant protest, it just says they need to be 300 feet away to give the people in mourning some basic respect and privacy. Its offering the family a little basic human decency.
and you guys are against this?

is this the twilight zone or something?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by pr0

.

If you say (x) group can't goto (x) spot....then you open up the ability to ban (y) group from going to (y) spot.

And no....nothing is sacred.

If people want the church signs gone....they can do like the rest of us, & kick some mother fuckers square in the nuts.

But the person kicking the nuts will get locked up

I see your slippery slope argument, and that's always a concern that's raised, but I think it's an extreme that isn't warranted in an situation like this. They aren't telling them they can't go, they're telling them to stay a certain distance from the ceremony. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Originally Posted by kane

Larry Flynt said, "If the first amendement will protect a scumbag like me, then it will protect all of you . . . 'cause I'm the worst."

What I think they shold do is decriminalize punching one of these bastards in the face.

Very different things, at least I think so.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

While I disagree with the ACLU on this as well, what the other person said is right. They have to fight for every thing involving free speech. Not just what I support.

After all, they defended Rush Limbaugh ...

They defends the rights of everyone ... and sometimes it stinks ...

[jimb]

although I dont agree with people doing this act of protesting @ funerals, I have to give them their freedom of speech. As long as they are peaceful about their protests, then they can do it. I know it work hurt me to no end emotionally, but you must look at it in another light too. Most people believe the pornography is a major downfall in society and they believe it harms them as well as everyone around them as much as it harms the family members getting protested in a funeral.

It goes both ways. Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. Its all or nothing.

Jim

[Webby]

Originally Posted by Xaid

julian and psili are dead on right. do i hate what those fucking religous fanatics do? yes, will i defend their right to do it in a non-violent way? absolutely, its what being an american is truly about

If the constitution in the US permits messing up funerals or whatever and abusing those attending - it's well fucking past time the constitution was changed.

If that is "what being an american is truly about" there is one massive fucking problem somewhere.

[slapass]

I would imagine that even in our country as stupid as it is, not tons of people want to go to funeral and yell nasty crap at the bereaved. This has to be a very small movement.

[broke]

Originally Posted by Webby

If that is "what being an american is truly about" there is one massive fucking problem somewhere.

Exactly.

[clickhappy]

Originally Posted by jimb

As long as they are peaceful about their protests, then they can do it.

lolololol, peaceful?
a huge group of people yelling at the family of a dead person that their loved one deserved to die?

theres freedom of speech, then theres aggravated harassment

[Drake]

Originally Posted by jimb

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. Its all or nothing.

Jim

Not completely true, but nobody is saying these people can't express themselves thru free speech. They're just being told to keep distance while they do it so they don't disrupt a funeral procession.

[pr0]

Originally Posted by Webby

If the constitution in the US permits messing up funerals or whatever and abusing those attending - it's well fucking past time the constitution was changed.

If that is "what being an american is truly about" there is one massive fucking problem somewhere.

If you ban one form of public protest, you end up banning them all.

Thats what you guys don't understand...OPEN YOUR FUCKING EARS

THE ACLU IS NOT COOL WITH THEM HOLDING UP SIGNS & BOTHERING PEOPLE AT FUNERALS....THEY ARE SIMPLY TRYING TO REVERSE A LAW THAT INFRINGES ON CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS

[pr0]

Originally Posted by Mike33

Not completely true, but nobody is saying these people can't express themselves thru free speech. They're just being told to keep distance while they do it so they don't disrupt a funeral procession.

we're not trying to ban guns, just the ones with big magazines

we're not trying to ban liquir, just the really strong shit

we're not racially profiling, we're just going after the people who fit the description of drug dealers

YOU CANT DO IT MIKE

[pr0]

And their not "being told" not to do it.....they drafted official papers

no one walked up & said...hey fuck off

they filed a motion & had it upheld by a judge.....just so we're both on the same page

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by pr0

Does it really matter if some bad people have funded an orginization in the past? Honestly?

The fact is the ACLU is our last line of defense. And when i say "our" i don't mean pornographers, i've been out of porn for years....i mean the people...the "little man". A large voice for those without one.

not concerened at all. just pointing out a small bit of possible history

[clickhappy]

Originally Posted by pr0

Thats what you guys don't understand...OPEN YOUR FUCKING EARS

THE ACLU IS NOT COOL WITH THEM HOLDING UP SIGNS & BOTHERING PEOPLE AT FUNERALS....

yes they are
the ACLU rep was saying that the law, keeping the protesters 300 feet away, prevents the protesters from getting their message to the funeral attendees.

And the members of the ACLU should know their money is going to support the rights of the fucking Westboro Baptist Church.
its insanity

[Drake]

Originally Posted by pr0

If you ban one form of public protest, you end up banning them all.

Thats what you guys don't understand...OPEN YOUR FUCKING EARS

THE ACLU IS NOT COOL WITH THEM HOLDING UP SIGNS & BOTHERING PEOPLE AT FUNERALS....THEY ARE SIMPLY TRYING TO REVERSE A LAW THAT INFRINGES ON CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS

We all understant that. We also understand that their is such thing as innapriopriate behavior, verbal abuse, verbal harrassment and so forth. Their are also laws to protect people from these things. There are exceptions to almost every rule. The Constitution is a pretty good guide but it's man made and used by imperfect men. It's not going to solve all the problems in the world or decide what's the best conduct in every situation we face. That's where interpretation of the Constitution and the rights of victims comes into play, common decency, etiquette and so on come into play. Reasonable people I'm sure will find that having these people insult family members of the dead at the particular place (funeral) at that particular time (mourning) is harrassment. Under these specific circumstances it is not unreasonable to ask the protesters to keep a distance for the ceremony.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Juilan

Post your Larry Flynt quote again it was appropriate.

I changed it because I had misread a person I was quoting. But here it is

Larry Flynt said, "If the first amendement will protect a scumbag like me, then it will protect all of you . . . 'cause I'm the worst."

This is a different case then what Flynt has faced in the past but the the same thoughts hold true. The battle for free speech will not be fought in the mainstream, it will be fought on the fringe.

Personally I think the people doing these protests are scumbags. If they want to change a law, make it legal to punch someone in the face that decides to get closer than 500feet to a funeral to protest.

[pr0]

Originally Posted by clickhappy

yes they are
the ACLU rep was saying that the law, keeping the protesters 300 feet away, prevents the protesters from getting their message to the funeral attendees.

And the members of the ACLU should know their money is going to support the rights of the fucking Westboro Baptist Church.
its insanity

You seem like a fairly intelligent guy...& i'm on your side....these right-wing jesus freak nutjobs need to be shot in the face for disrupting a funeral.

However, you can't open the door to other people losing their rights...simply because we find it unbelievably wrong. They are doing what they think is right...no matter HOW FUCKING INSANE & DEPRAVED IT IS. And they have the right to spew the hatred if they feel like it. Even if it is wrong.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by pr0

If you ban one form of public protest, you end up banning them all.

Thats what you guys don't understand...OPEN YOUR FUCKING EARS

THE ACLU IS NOT COOL WITH THEM HOLDING UP SIGNS & BOTHERING PEOPLE AT FUNERALS....THEY ARE SIMPLY TRYING TO REVERSE A LAW THAT INFRINGES ON CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS

There is no need to ban anything. Any assholes who knowingly yell shit at people attending eg a funeral are causing offense.

It has nothing to do with "protests" or "freedom of speech" - it's called being fucking offensive and abusive. I got nada against folks protesting over whatever - but this is below the level of the gutter. They are sick.

Is there any law to say abuse is fine cos I'm just expressing my "rights to free speech"? Doubt it.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Webby

abuse

Exactly, this is the key word. Mental abuse when people are at their most vulnerable.

[pr0]

Originally Posted by Mike33

We all understant that. We also understand that their is such thing as innapriopriate behavior, verbal abuse, verbal harrassment and so forth. Their are also laws to protect people from these things. There are exceptions to almost every rule. The Constitution is a pretty good guide but it's man made and used by imperfect men. It's not going to solve all the problems in the world or decide what's the best conduct in every situation we face. That's where interpretation of the Constitution and the rights of victims comes into play, common decency, etiquette and so on come into play. Reasonable people I'm sure will find that having these people insult family members of the dead at the particular place (funeral) at that particular time (mourning) is harrassment. Under these specific circumstances it is not unreasonable to ask the protesters to keep a distance for the ceremony.

If the people show up they can be charged in a normal fashion with

For example: Inciting a Riot (i've got a couple of these) Breech of the peace (Another couple of them)

Trespassing (Another couple of these)

All have laws pertaining to them...& can/will be enforced.

There is ZERO need for a law to ban a certain group of people from showing up at a public place.

[clickhappy]

Larry Flint wouldnt support the right of someone to protest the funeral of a dead baby or a dead grandmother because they happened to die from Katrina.
Which is what the WBC does, and is what the ACLU is supporting.

Makes me sick to my stomach thinking of being at a funeral of an innocent family member who drowned to death and having 50 people RIGHT OUTSIDE THE FUNERAL DOOR holding disgusting signs and yelling at the family that they deserved to drown.
Who fucking deserves that? no one

[Drake]

Originally Posted by pr0

There is ZERO need for a law to ban a certain group of people from showing up at a public place.

Nobody is banning them

[pr0]

Originally Posted by clickhappy

Larry Flint wouldnt support the right of someone to protest the funeral of a dead baby or a dead grandmother because they happened to die from Katrina.
Which is what the WBC does, and is what the ACLU is supporting.

Makes me sick to my stomach thinking of being at a funeral of an innocent family member who drowned to death and having 50 people RIGHT OUTSIDE THE FUNERAL DOOR holding disgusting signs and yelling at the family that they deserved to drown.
Who fucking deserves that? no one

Ok i take back the intelligent guy thing. You sound like a cheap politician using the "katrina" bullshit.

I'm done with this conversation. Free speech advocates will back me up 100% on this issue.

[pr0]

Originally Posted by Mike33

Nobody is banning them

Being spiritual people, maybe the sick fucks think they need to be 3 feet away from the casket...so the dead aids patient will hear them?

Whatever the case....any law is one law too many.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by pr0

If the people show up they can be charged in a normal fashion with

For example: Inciting a Riot (i've got a couple of these) Breech of the peace (Another couple of them)

Trespassing (Another couple of these)

All have laws pertaining to them...& can/will be enforced.

There is ZERO need for a law to ban a certain group of people from showing up at a public place.

Kinda agree on that!

The moment they open their mouths and start causing offense and abusing - stuff em in a jail cell to focus their minds.

Tho it's clear they never had a mind to start with.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by pr0

we're not trying to ban guns, just the ones with big magazines

we're not trying to ban liquir, just the really strong shit

we're not racially profiling, we're just going after the people who fit the description of drug dealers

YOU CANT DO IT MIKE

We do all three things. There are certain guns that are banned. Their are certain liquors that are banned because of the deadly high alchohol content. We do racial profiling all the time, many cases currently involving Arabs.

[clickhappy]

Originally Posted by pr0

Ok i take back the intelligent guy thing. You sound like a cheap politician using the "katrina" bullshit.

I'm done with this conversation. Free speech advocates will back me up 100% on this issue.

that Katrina bullshit?
http://www.godhatesamerica.com/html/hurricanes.html
Thats who they fucking protest, victims of Katrina.
Victims of the Tsunami.
DO you even know who the WBC are?

[RogerV]

Originally Posted by Juilan

The unfortunate part of protecting free speech for all is it has to be done for everyone you don't like, that's the essential part of it.


First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

P. M. Niemöller

this says it all

[pr0]

Originally Posted by clickhappy

that Katrina bullshit?
http://www.godhatesamerica.com/html/hurricanes.html
Thats who they fucking protest, victims of Katrina.
Victims of the Tsunami.
DO you even know who the WBC are?

More bullshit spitting evangalists...i understand 100%. Doesn't change the fact that they have to be allowed to say what they want....where they want, so long as its within their constitutional right.