Best way to store 30TB safe and cheap? - GoFuckYourself.com

milambur · 04-26-2006, 06:24 AM

Any suggestions?

u-Bob · 04-26-2006, 06:26 AM

what kind of data...?

milambur · 04-26-2006, 06:34 AM

Need to backup the original content data safe, only use dvds now, but not safe enough.

DigitalPimpShit · 04-26-2006, 07:08 AM

I would like to know also.

Brad Mitchell · 04-26-2006, 07:21 AM

I have two pieces of advice-

First, Make a second copy of the DVDs, test them and put them in a lockbox at a bank.

Second, I would recommend 3-5 6-10TB RAID 5 arrays that use SATA drives. If you want help specing out the hardware let me know I know some great vendors for that. Estimated cost, around $30,000. If you were to go to something like Dell or direct to one of their storage vendors for a solution of that exact size then it would be 100k plus for a more enterprise level solution.

My advice, do the lockbox and second set of DVDs. However, if you actually need to access your content once in a while the multiple systems isn't a bad idea. In general, my advice would be to have them behind a UPS at your office and normally powered OFF. Or, you could colocate them with a host for safety and security and maybe place them on an internal network only accessible through another server that isn't part of the storage cluster.

Brad

milambur · 04-26-2006, 07:30 AM

Not a chance I go with DVDs, too much risk. I was thinking of SATA raid with a secondary DAT backup, but it gets pretty expensive.

Phil21 · 04-26-2006, 07:33 AM

Brad has the right idea..

Make some offline storage (e.g. DVD's, HD-DVD soon, whatever), and store it off-site in a safe location.

For on-line storage, you can build ~11TB useable machine for fairly cheap these days, considering what that would have cost just 2 years ago. I recently built a 24 drive SATA based machine w/ 500GB drives for roughly $13k. You might be able to do a bit cheaper - the largest cost in terms of things most don't think about, is getting a quality chassis to put everything in. Many co-lo customers send us cheap cases to do this, and there absolutely is a difference in reliability and maintainability.

As for storing it in a powered-down state, I'm not entirely sure I agree. I think I personally would feel safer with it powered up and running w/ a hotspare drive, and having RAID checks being done hourly. I'd rather find a drive going out right away, vs. the most stressful time for them (during power on). To each his own though, a case can be made for both.

-Phil

seeric · 04-26-2006, 07:36 AM

Most secure and safe way is burn to 600 DVDs and store in a safe deposit box in a bank. ;)

5 gigs each dvd x 1000 gigs to a TB.

in all seriousness, there are some very good databanks that you can find with google. i remember seeing ads for some of them when i worked up in silicon valley.

Brad Mitchell · 04-26-2006, 07:37 AM

Agreed that powering it on it the most stressful thing, and also about the importance of a quality case and power supply. I would only advise keeping them in a powered off state if the intended use of the systems is less than once every month or two for a short duration. Another thing to remember, if you do end up keeping them powered on and in a colocation environment - raid cards can be setup to send out emails if they encounter errors on the drive or card. Unless you were near the box to hear the beeping, that would be the only way you would know if you had a drive that needed to be replaced.

Brad

milambur · 04-26-2006, 10:12 AM

30 TB in DVDs = 6667 DVDs
Since DVDs are very sensitive to enviromental issues and impractical for that amount of data I have ruled them out.

Think I'll go with a raid solution + tape backup with tapes in fireproof safe.

300GB SATA disks appear to be cheepest per GB.
Can you guys reccomend any good raid cards?

Any1 know what tape backup is best of SDLT/AIT/LTO?

Pornwolf · 04-26-2006, 11:38 AM

Lacie has 1.2 terabyte drives for $900

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.proc...ed.LAC+300799U

NoHassleSteve · 04-26-2006, 12:18 PM

you get something like these...

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merch...de =SSservers

takes a bunch of 300-400 GB SATA drives in slide in holders...
that way you could build out a RAID 5 array... fill it...
eject (and label) the drives... put in another set...
and repeat.

ElvisManson · 04-26-2006, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoHassleSteve

you get something like these...

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merch...de =SSservers

takes a bunch of 300-400 GB SATA drives in slide in holders...
that way you could build out a RAID 5 array... fill it...
eject (and label) the drives... put in another set...
and repeat.

I like that they use the WD raptor drive for the system drive and the Caviar drives for storage...that is the same config I run and it is smooth and fast.

Brad Mitchell · 04-26-2006, 12:43 PM

The lacie drives aren't the right way to go, typically the volume is striped and not mirrored so there is no redundancy. I would not recommend building the system yourself - go to an integrator that does this regularly so that you don't have some expensive learning curve with the system. I have been building these types of systems forever and I still think it is best to have it built in a lab by people that do it all day long and then burned in and shipped to you. Go to http://www.8anet.com and talk to Lily or email her at [email protected] and tell her what you want and that I referred you.

Brad

SinisterStudios · 04-26-2006, 12:46 PM

I have 2 CSI Designs 16 slot SATA Enclosures with 16 400gb Hitachi drives in each with 2 3ware 8 port raid cards in it. These things are awesome for databackup, but even the 2 of these doesnt even come close to the storage you need. There are some nice units out there but nothing but a enterprise san could handle that amount of data on 1 unit and thats a very expensive option.

Theo · 04-26-2006, 12:52 PM

with $90k you get an IBM shark lol

AdultEUhost · 04-26-2006, 03:41 PM

get a bunch of 500 Gb disks, get a chenbro chassis (the biggest one can hold 24 disks) and use 3ware raid cards

rowan · 04-26-2006, 05:58 PM

Don't forget that HDs store data magnetically; it is not "hard written." You should refresh the data periodically (ie, perhaps have two arrays and copy between them). You certainly don't want to leave the array untouched for 5 years and then find that the HDs have read errors due to magnetic weakening or interference.

If you do use two arrays then use two different brands of HD manufacturer for further protection.

BTW, whatever solution you use it's gonna be expensive, or large. I've found that the pricing sweet spot at the moment (based on my local pricing) is best at about 300Gb per drive. 400Gb drives are a huge jump in the $/gig ratio.

biftek · 04-26-2006, 06:20 PM

edit , remembered back to eletro studies , faraday cage wont protect againt magnetic field

aflex · 04-26-2006, 06:23 PM

buy 60tb.. 30tb mirrored.. Brad Mitchell has the overall idea of it.. I highly recommend the Sun StorEdge line...

if the data is extremely valuable to you, do not attempt to buy the drives yourself and build your own system.. be realistic.. if the data is really valuable you will need to find the proper way to store it, with knowing the price may not be cheap.. 30tb for 30k is pushing it but can be done, but what about redundancy/disk failure?

Pornwolf · 04-26-2006, 06:35 PM

It doesn't sound like cheap is an option.

04-26-2006, 06:24 AM	#1
milambur Mainstream since 2010 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,327	Best way to store 30TB safe and cheap? Any suggestions? __________________ Alea iacta est

04-26-2006, 06:34 AM	#3
milambur Mainstream since 2010 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,327	Need to backup the original content data safe, only use dvds now, but not safe enough. __________________ Alea iacta est

04-26-2006, 07:21 AM	#5
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,812	I have two pieces of advice- First, Make a second copy of the DVDs, test them and put them in a lockbox at a bank. Second, I would recommend 3-5 6-10TB RAID 5 arrays that use SATA drives. If you want help specing out the hardware let me know I know some great vendors for that. Estimated cost, around $30,000. If you were to go to something like Dell or direct to one of their storage vendors for a solution of that exact size then it would be 100k plus for a more enterprise level solution. My advice, do the lockbox and second set of DVDs. However, if you actually need to access your content once in a while the multiple systems isn't a bad idea. In general, my advice would be to have them behind a UPS at your office and normally powered OFF. Or, you could colocate them with a host for safety and security and maybe place them on an internal network only accessible through another server that isn't part of the storage cluster. Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

04-26-2006, 07:30 AM	#6
milambur Mainstream since 2010 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,327	Not a chance I go with DVDs, too much risk. I was thinking of SATA raid with a secondary DAT backup, but it gets pretty expensive. __________________ Alea iacta est

04-26-2006, 07:33 AM	#7
Phil21 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ICQ: 25285313 Posts: 993	Brad has the right idea.. Make some offline storage (e.g. DVD's, HD-DVD soon, whatever), and store it off-site in a safe location. For on-line storage, you can build ~11TB useable machine for fairly cheap these days, considering what that would have cost just 2 years ago. I recently built a 24 drive SATA based machine w/ 500GB drives for roughly $13k. You might be able to do a bit cheaper - the largest cost in terms of things most don't think about, is getting a quality chassis to put everything in. Many co-lo customers send us cheap cases to do this, and there absolutely is a difference in reliability and maintainability. As for storing it in a powered-down state, I'm not entirely sure I agree. I think I personally would feel safer with it powered up and running w/ a hotspare drive, and having RAID checks being done hourly. I'd rather find a drive going out right away, vs. the most stressful time for them (during power on). To each his own though, a case can be made for both. -Phil __________________ Quality affordable hosting.

04-26-2006, 06:26 AM	#2
u-Bob there's no $$$ in porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: icq: 195./568.-230 (btw: not getting offline msgs) Posts: 33,063	what kind of data...?

04-26-2006, 07:08 AM	#4
DigitalPimpShit Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In your future Posts: 783	I would like to know also.

04-26-2006, 07:36 AM	#8
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	Most secure and safe way is burn to 600 DVDs and store in a safe deposit box in a bank. ;) 5 gigs each dvd x 1000 gigs to a TB. in all seriousness, there are some very good databanks that you can find with google. i remember seeing ads for some of them when i worked up in silicon valley.

04-26-2006, 07:37 AM	#9
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,812	Agreed that powering it on it the most stressful thing, and also about the importance of a quality case and power supply. I would only advise keeping them in a powered off state if the intended use of the systems is less than once every month or two for a short duration. Another thing to remember, if you do end up keeping them powered on and in a colocation environment - raid cards can be setup to send out emails if they encounter errors on the drive or card. Unless you were near the box to hear the beeping, that would be the only way you would know if you had a drive that needed to be replaced. Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

04-26-2006, 10:12 AM	#10
milambur Mainstream since 2010 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,327	30 TB in DVDs = 6667 DVDs Since DVDs are very sensitive to enviromental issues and impractical for that amount of data I have ruled them out. Think I'll go with a raid solution + tape backup with tapes in fireproof safe. 300GB SATA disks appear to be cheepest per GB. Can you guys reccomend any good raid cards? Any1 know what tape backup is best of SDLT/AIT/LTO? __________________ Alea iacta est

04-26-2006, 11:38 AM	#11
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	Lacie has 1.2 terabyte drives for $900 http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.proc...ed.LAC+300799U __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.

04-26-2006, 12:18 PM	#12
NoHassleSteve Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 450	you get something like these... http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merch...de =SSservers takes a bunch of 300-400 GB SATA drives in slide in holders... that way you could build out a RAID 5 array... fill it... eject (and label) the drives... put in another set... and repeat. __________________ Tai Lynn - Asian model with 50% revshare Teen Dolls with Alyssa Doll -- 60% payouts Spunkbucks PPS and Revshare NS Cash -- sites with pornstars and fresh faces -- 60% payouts

04-26-2006, 12:43 PM	#14
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,812	The lacie drives aren't the right way to go, typically the volume is striped and not mirrored so there is no redundancy. I would not recommend building the system yourself - go to an integrator that does this regularly so that you don't have some expensive learning curve with the system. I have been building these types of systems forever and I still think it is best to have it built in a lab by people that do it all day long and then burned in and shipped to you. Go to http://www.8anet.com and talk to Lily or email her at [email protected] and tell her what you want and that I referred you. Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

04-26-2006, 12:46 PM	#15
SinisterStudios Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Joisey Posts: 3,087	I have 2 CSI Designs 16 slot SATA Enclosures with 16 400gb Hitachi drives in each with 2 3ware 8 port raid cards in it. These things are awesome for databackup, but even the 2 of these doesnt even come close to the storage you need. There are some nice units out there but nothing but a enterprise san could handle that amount of data on 1 unit and thats a very expensive option. __________________ SEOIP.com Multiple IP Webhosting Shared and Dedicated IP's - Multiple Class A's - From $1.99/ip Last edited by SinisterStudios; 04-26-2006 at 12:48 PM..

04-26-2006, 12:52 PM	#16
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	with $90k you get an IBM shark lol

04-26-2006, 03:41 PM	#17
AdultEUhost ORLY? Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NL & US Posts: 2,579	get a bunch of 500 Gb disks, get a chenbro chassis (the biggest one can hold 24 disks) and use 3ware raid cards __________________ ICQ: 267-443-722 / leon [at] adulteuhost [dotcom] Nominated for an XBIZ Award as "Webhost of the Year" in 2007, 2012, 2013 and 2014

04-26-2006, 05:58 PM	#18
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	Don't forget that HDs store data magnetically; it is not "hard written." You should refresh the data periodically (ie, perhaps have two arrays and copy between them). You certainly don't want to leave the array untouched for 5 years and then find that the HDs have read errors due to magnetic weakening or interference. If you do use two arrays then use two different brands of HD manufacturer for further protection. BTW, whatever solution you use it's gonna be expensive, or large. I've found that the pricing sweet spot at the moment (based on my local pricing) is best at about 300Gb per drive. 400Gb drives are a huge jump in the $/gig ratio.

04-26-2006, 06:20 PM	#19
biftek So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,030	edit , remembered back to eletro studies , faraday cage wont protect againt magnetic field Last edited by biftek; 04-26-2006 at 06:22 PM..

04-26-2006, 06:23 PM	#20
aflex Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Jersey - adaptweb at gmail.com Posts: 3,127	buy 60tb.. 30tb mirrored.. Brad Mitchell has the overall idea of it.. I highly recommend the Sun StorEdge line... if the data is extremely valuable to you, do not attempt to buy the drives yourself and build your own system.. be realistic.. if the data is really valuable you will need to find the proper way to store it, with knowing the price may not be cheap.. 30tb for 30k is pushing it but can be done, but what about redundancy/disk failure? __________________ self made mothafucka. buying premium domains & developed sites with revenue/traffic -> adaptweb at gmail.com Last edited by aflex; 04-26-2006 at 06:26 PM..

04-26-2006, 06:35 PM	#21
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	It doesn't sound like cheap is an option. __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.