I called the FBI today on an affiliate

[venus]

I see allot of affiliates on here complaining about sponsors who they THINK is ripping them off this way or that way, they come to this board to complain instead of going to the source and fixing the problem. If someone is ripping you, you can fix it.

Now that my problem seems resolved I will let you all know what happened and how I think he was doing it and who he is so programs can be on the look out for this guy also.

I had a guy, Daniel Stoyanov of Bulgaria join my program june 2005, he did not start sending traffic untill feb. 2006, he was sening traffic from www.sweetest-girls.com , a TGP, he was not sending allot of signups, sent 18for Feb and about the same for march, but come april 3rd, all his signups started calling in claiming fraud or calling their bank, mostly Discover Card, I noticed the calls to the call center instantly, but did not see it for what it was untill several of those and 3 or 4 retrival requests from discover. On (about) april 5th I wrote him and told him I suspected him of fraud, the next day after another call in I did a whois on his domain name, it was registered to Daniel Mandel of West Virginia,..hmm same first name...So I wrote both the affiliate address I had on file AND the whois address and told him if he cashes the check I just sent him I would report him to discover, I did not hear back from him, sent several emails, nothing back, but his site closed down, today I called discover, they transfered me to security who gave me a contact at the FBI division for internet crimes, She said it was the same unit who made the arrests in the Nigerian scam thing. Called them and told them what I had, faxed the the canceled checked from the first check I sent him, it had where he cashed it at on the back. This evening in the mail, guess what, the guy sent me back my check... He never did write me but he stopped sending traffic after the first email and after I wrote his US address his site closed so I know he got my messages.

but it looks like what was happening is the guy was using stolen card holder information to make the sales, then I would mail the check to Bulgaria and it was cashed there, not sure exactly how the guy in virginia comes into play, but he is being investigated now and I am guessing if he is found to have been involved is using stolen card data will get some jail time.

So if you think your getting ripped, confront the situation, be aggressive and it will work out, one way or another.

[vvq]

This guy sent us some fraudulent joins as well. Looks like he hit your program harder than ours. Hopefully he's busted soon. Thanks for emailing me about him awhile ago Venus.

[Spunky]

I'm really surprised more sponsors don't do that and consider it just a cost of doing business

[HollywoodChris]

Thanks for the heads up, he has sent me 4 clicks.

[FreeHugeMovies]

I bet somehow a Russian is involved.

[venus]

you were one the the program owners I mailed... cool.... I think he is out of business now... if he had responded to m first email I might not have gone all the way... but he did not believe me.

Originally Posted by vvq

This guy sent us some fraudulent joins as well. Looks like he hit your program harder than ours. Hopefully he's busted soon. Thanks for emailing me about him awhile ago Venus.

[fetishblog]

That's the risk of doing business with people in Eastern Europe. I'm not saying they are all bad, but as an ex law enforcement guy, i know that there are A LOT of criminals in Eastern Europe. ;)

[KMR Stitch]

Hate to say it it's nothing new.. (Carders/Scamers/Phishers) I know a few programs keep a blacklist.. even though they compete with eachother they give each other a heads up ;-)-

[sonofsam]

Originally Posted by FreeHugeMovies

I bet somehow a Russian is involved.

round 1, ding ding ding

[pr0]

glad u caught the guy

but seriously, lay off the steroids

[beemk]

Originally Posted by Spunky

I'm really surprised more sponsors don't do that and consider it just a cost of doing business

yeah, same goes for us when we are being shaved. shaving affiliates is just as bad as credit card fraud.

[WiredGuy]

Let us know what the FBI does (if anything). I get the impression they won't do much because of the fact we're adult in nature, but I would like to be proven wrong.
WG

[venus]

ya, the lady at Discover card said this was the first time she had a merchant call them about a subscription site, she said its always been fraud involving goods shipped. It took some explaining for her to get a grasp on exactly how it was working, when I told he I sent him money, she was like.. oh ok... we need to get you over the the FBI.

Also I dont think most sponsors have the available information to react to stuff like this. If going through third party billing company you dont get a hard copy of the retrival request or the chargeback. Discover emails you the day they receive the phone call. I like their system... allot

Originally Posted by Spunky

I'm really surprised more sponsors don't do that and consider it just a cost of doing business

[Spunky]

Originally Posted by beemk

yeah, same goes for us when we are being shaved. shaving affiliates is just as bad as credit card fraud.

Why is that my fault? I'm not the one shaving anybody,I would try somebody else then

[venus]

they dont know I am in adult, they dont ask and I did not tell, I just said I run a subscription website. But they dont know who else he is ripping off, if its me then its also probably other people, even mainstream. I doubt I will hear back from them unless they need more information because they wont bust him for joining my site, they will get him on using stolen card information or somethign like that. with the info I gave them it wont take them more then 24 hours to find out who he is, I had everything, especially the canceled check with his signature on the back and his banking information.

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Let us know what the FBI does (if anything). I get the impression they won't do much because of the fact we're adult in nature, but I would like to be proven wrong.
WG

[GoodGuy]

Originally Posted by fetishblog

That's the risk of doing business with people in Eastern Europe. I'm not saying they are all bad, but as an ex law enforcement guy, i know that there are A LOT of criminals in Eastern Europe. ;)

But why are there so many cheaters there?

How do you guys explain it?

I don't think it has to do with genetics or race, come on, what is the catch?

why are there so many cheaters in that region??

[venus]

if you think your being ripped, do your homework then confront the person who is ripping you. If you don't then you can't complain about it and wish you had done something.
For me, some fraud is tolerable, this guy was not. when he refused to answer me and I knew he was getting my email, it pissed me off. the last guy who tried a similar stunt had the balls to write me back and say he was returning my check plus $500 for the fines I had received from visa/MC..thats as far as that went.
this is another good reason to write your own checks to affiliates, it gives you more information and control.

Originally Posted by beemk

yeah, same goes for us when we are being shaved. shaving affiliates is just as bad as credit card fraud.

[Sinstar]

Wow thanks for the info. Very interesting stuff.

[venus]

I have several affiliates from eastern europe, when they first join I watch them like a hawk, but I have some good ones from estonia, russia and romania.

Originally Posted by fetishblog

That's the risk of doing business with people in Eastern Europe. I'm not saying they are all bad, but as an ex law enforcement guy, i know that there are A LOT of criminals in Eastern Europe. ;)

[Webby]

Originally Posted by venus

they dont know I am in adult, they dont ask and I did not tell, I just said I run a subscription website. But they dont know who else he is ripping off, if its me then its also probably other people, even mainstream. I doubt I will hear back from them unless they need more information because they wont bust him for joining my site, they will get him on using stolen card information or somethign like that. with the info I gave them it wont take them more then 24 hours to find out who he is, I had everything, especially the canceled check with his signature on the back and his banking information.

And another one bites the dust venus

You got the data, but smell this is from Bulgaria, West Virginia

Dunno why, but there seems to be a good number of western webmasters who think they can set up some crap in Eastern European or offshore areas and play silly games.

Good luck and look forward to a front seat at the crucifiction

[madawgz]

Originally Posted by FreeHugeMovies

I bet somehow a Russian is involved.

russians provide the cards for everyone! its a fact

[Linguist]

Originally Posted by GoodGuy

But why are there so many cheaters there?

How do you guys explain it?

I don't think it has to do with genetics or race, come on, what is the catch?

why are there so many cheaters in that region??

Being of Eastern European background myself, I've come a conclusion that many people over there still suffer from the USSR mentality. The mentality being is that it's alright to screw people over, since you think that you're smarter than them, and that you deserve to live better than them. Thus they call westerners fat, spoiled, capitalist pigs or with any combination of thereof that makes them feel superior. It's not because the people are bad, it's because they've lived in bad conditions for a long time.

That's very comparable to my posts in the Mexican immigration threads... those people are of different mentality than those who were born in the US. And if you're from US you most likely will never understand this mentality (which is perhaps for the best).

Also many of them go to such great length of cheating people when they can be earning even more money legitimately. Once again, back to the USSR, it was impossible to make any decent money legitimately.

But I find that people that grow out of that mentality are very honest and successful. Contrary to what many think, Eastern European countries are full of hard working and kind hearted people.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by GoodGuy

But why are there so many cheaters there?

It's not just in the Eastern Euro countries GG - they are all over.

There is an appeal from countries where the income level is low and folks find a chance to earn comparatively far higher revenues off the net.

Any serious webmaster has better stuff to do than play with sponsors - and there are plenty "serious" webmasters all over the globe. It's prob more accurate to say folks who scam are rarely serious webmasters in the first instance.

[Remastered]

I skimmed read what you wrote but he could have used mail forwarding, real address might me anywhere, could have incorporated in Bulgaria and got a corporate bank account there, etc.