:Graucho

Oh, and 50 :thumbsup

Dammit newbreed. I actually had to go back and make sure I put "it" and not "I". :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Quoted for page 2.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I was j/k of course when I typed it, just couldn't help but giving it a shot...haha

Somtimes people throw around numbers, but they have to do equal comparisions. You can't compare the average amount of a join with a site that has trials and another site which has only monthlies

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Hey are you guys at amateurwealth using limited trial membership areas?

Who let the epiccash guys in here?!? this is a NO DRAMA ZONE:pimp

Not at the moment because conversions are in our target range....but we are looking into the possibility to make the affils even more $$

<-- currently saving the drama for my Momma :thumbsup

Agreed its all about the paycheck....but its all about the amount per click - not the number of joins

In answer to the breaking down of trial and non-trial joins, that was done also - the trials were obviously lower per signup - about $15 average per surfer over the same time period as the full join sites which averaged $24 per surfer


added - the reason I say its not the number of joins is that if I had to send 300,000 hits to a program to get 100 signups a month that sure doesnt come close to a reasonable ratio or PPC

could be but at the same token trials would get you 3 times more signups than straight months so if you make 3 signups with monthlies you make total $72 over time as opposed to $135 with 9 trials over time so what sounds better initially may not always be better on the long run :2 cents:

of course there is a high percentage of people in this thread with their own revshare sites who will say they retain 20 years to get new affiliates.

I doubt we will be seeing contributions from the kings of PPS like bigjb or nastydollars

of course there is a high percentage of people in this thread with their own revshare sites who will say they retain 20 years to get new affiliates.

I doubt we will be seeing contributions from the kings of PPS like bigjb or nastydollars

cause it wouldn't matter to affiliates if they retained or not them being PPS. that being said I highly doubt nastydollars retains members for any less than 20 years lol.. wish they kept their proggy revshare still.. ah! those good 'oll days :jester

revshare is better for sites that can actually retain their customers (sites with good exclusive content that are frequently updated/good cam sites/good dating sites/etc)

pps is better for sites that suck, at least from an affiliate standpoint.

I will make it easy on you...

Lightspeed 211 joins $4,960 @ $23.51
Meatcash 123 joins $2,986 @ $24.28
Nasty Dollars 107 joins $3,745 @ $35.00

hmm... So already Nasty Dollars is beating MeatCash...

So lets multiply it by 211 and I get $7,385 which means it kicks Lightspeeds ass...

I think I like the PPS model more... more money....

And now I know why TripleXCash dropped their payout on PPS to $25... because that is about what Revshare was so you get the same thing either way...

If you think Revshare can ever touch PPS you are high.

Your meatcash stats seem kind of low to what other people have posted

It's funny that you guys made the exact same point, simply phrased differently, and are still managing to argue about it.

Is your math really that bad or are you really just that stupid?

If a 50\50 revshare earned you $25 that means the gross rev on that join was $50. Assuming no other auxilary costs in aquiring the sale, we'll keep it simple for you, if you only made $25 on a 50\50 revshare it doesn't mean they couldn't have afforded the $35 payout over time. The fact that a revshare program on average (just using the example that was given) pays less than a PPS program doesn't mean that they couldn't afford the $35+ payout it simply mean that for whatever reason the money isn't ending up in the affiliate's pocket.

For a 50\50 revshare program to payout $35 a join they need to make $70 a join. A PPS would need to make $40 to pay you $35 a join (obviously most make more I'm just making a point), and simply push enough volume to have their smaller margins cover their operating expenses.

The point of this exercise? Revshare programs need to be making double the fixed payout of a PPS per join to match a PPS program's payout. Think about that really hard next time before you start talking about the unsustainability of the PPS model why don't you, especially if you're going to go on and say people make more money with revshare models with your next breath.

Was posted above too I suppose but god damn just stop talking if your grasp of numbers is really that thin.

Yea, the only time revshare makes sense is if:

%revshare * average gross rev\join > flat PPS payout.

AND

You don't mind the inferior cash flow model + care to take on the extra risk on your shoulders


That said many PPS programs offer revshare options anyway.

And there again someone talking out of his ass. MOST yeah a vast majority of PPS proggy would be lucky to make $15-$20 per signup let alone making $40. (now, i'm not talking nastydollars or alike there are not many of them and the few there are often overpromoted so $35 or not won't bring too much money in your pocket) Now making atleast 15 dollars less than what they pay affiliates won't keep them in business without doing some sorta hankypanky and volume of that negative will only make a bigger number in gative direction.

The point of this exercise? I'd promote revshare anytime over PPS (and i do) to be on the safeside ofcourse given it's a strong proggy. Think about that really really hard next time before you start talking about the sustainability of the PPS model why don't you, especially if you're going to go on and say people make more money with PPS models with your next breath.

Exits, xsells, upsells, ex-members lists... Most PPS sponsors don't make their income from just the initial trial + rebill.

you are good on learning poems you listen


some myths where exceptions apply:

non console $30/trial
consoles $35/ trial


In 2006 exit traffic can count for 17% extra revenues? even more funny is that although there's code to beat sp2 and google toolbar, NONE PPS sponsor is using it.

xsells we are aware of them, its the only thing that keeps pps alive, but question is for how long. If your processor has agressive billing except to see the negative aspect of it reflected in another part of your business.

upsales, yes the fleshlight banner you see in most members areas will cover everything...

ex-members lists, let alone most sponsors do not utilize their emails AT ALL now due to canspam law and from those that attempts they do it so poorly.


these debates are so overdone,shouldnt even have posted. oh well.

$15 off avg subscription +$5 avg Exits, xsells, upsells, ex-members lists =$20/member = -$15 after affil payout.. here, math doesn't get any simpler than that :winkwink:

[QUOTE=seven]And there again someone talking out of his ass. MOST yeah a vast majority of PPS proggy would be lucky to make $15-$20 per signup let alone making $40. (now, i'm not talking nastydollars or alike there are not many of them and the few there are often overpromoted so $35 or not won't bring too much money in your pocket) Now making atleast 15 dollars less than what they pay affiliates won't keep them in business without doing some sorta hankypanky and volume of that negative will only make a bigger number in gative direction.

The point of this exercise? I'd promote revshare anytime over PPS (and i do) to be on the safeside ofcourse given it's a strong proggy. QUOTE]

Did the person who posted that PPS models are unsustainable without shaving at $35 a join, a statement that is in complete odds with basic arithmetic given your other statements, tell me -I- was talking out of my ass?

:helpme

I'm sorry please point me to where I said PPS models make more money for an affiliate. Can you even read or am I talking to a chimp pounding a keyboard? :1orglaugh

I pointed out the criteria to determine which one makes more sense for an affiliate. The fact that you can't read at a fourth grade level is not my problem. :1orglaugh

I'm sorry to break it to you but my other statement didn't offer any arithmatic. If it did, since I did a double major in Math & Computer Science my arithmatic, it would've been far different than your arithmatic lol.
Duh! Ok now you're admitting that you're arguing just cause you like to argue outta your ass not cause you tried to make a point that PPS makes more money. Ya know what that's called right? Hypocricy! Now, you're an Idiot and that's final :1orglaugh

The arithmatic is implict, but I guess they don't offer a lot along the lines of common sense in the comp sci department. If you make more than $35 a join with revshare that means that they are making more than $70 a join, meaning a revshare model could afford PPS if they cared to.

Since you lack any sort of basic reading skills I'll say it again; all I've said is that the PPS model fall well within most PPS companies margins without any sort of creative business practices. Though I do find your statement here rather ironic:

So the second a company declares themselves revshare rebills and quality instantly of service goes up, but all the PPS copmanies are just out to get you? :1orglaugh

More like the quality of a company is indepenant of what model they choose. In fact PPS companies in theory should be more motivated to provide all the nice long rebills and quality service you seem to think only exist in revshare as they take 100% of the profit not 50%. Just once I'd like to see you post something that has a conclusion which follows from the premise.

My inital point is that your comment regarding PPS models being unsustainable at $35 a join is just ignorant. Your response?

HAHA REVSHRE MAKES MORE MONIES NOOB.

I never once made a statment on which I thought was the better model in fact here's my exact quote, since you're a bit slow:

Surfers are smarter now, but that hasn't changed the fact that once they join a site that they like and trust, they may stay forever. They may cancel and then re-join too just to see how the cancellation process works.

If we got rid of trials that would get rid of the pay per signup model. Webmasters just want to make the most cash as quickly as possible, site owners want to get hold of the surfer as quick as possible and start billing them.

A smart surfer will join a trial, download a shitload of content and cancel to jerk off for the most part. A webmaster will send his traffic to the site that pays the most. Its a vicious circle that mainly greed has created. Numbers for site owners are down across the board.

Pay site owners who want to make quick cash will go with PPS sign up model and take a majority of the webmasters with them. Pay site owners who go with revshare know that their money will go really fast paying this way so they try to talk webmasters into doing revshare just so they can stay afloat and make their cash last longer.

Revshare in the longterm pays heaps on PPS but unfortunately webmasters don't really care since they want to get paid as fast as possible. That is the way I see our industry spiralling down. Free sites are coming up fast and furious, TGP's, fuskers, and a million other places you can see pics for free. That cannot be regulated since we will not regulate it ourselves because most of us are greedy and want to see our competitors die and we take all the traffic.

One simple thing if we could agree to get rid of trials and train the surfers to stay for the full month, that way we can payout and not lose our pants if we still choose to do PPS, but most will go to revshare and that is the best for all of us.

My favorite are so called "new sites" that come up each month selling content shot by AMA, Amazing Content, Ounique, Paul Markham, and billing it as exclusive content and charging 30 to 40 per month and offering PPS to the same effect, that to me is hilarious. Sites with exclusive content do make money, ask ALSCANS, Lightspeed, Twisty's, Danni Ashe, and a few others that actually shoot their own content and their members stay because these sites deliver the goods.

In summary, revshare is way better if you have the patience and trust as a webmaster to get paid and the content is good.

G

G

What would be really intresting to know is how much profit are pps programs making these days?

I already gave you my final word. You are an idiot. Now, please go back and read the posts so you can put things in its context.
HAHA REVSHRE MAKES MORE MONIES NOOB :thumbsup

:thumbsup

I am for trials dearly. I tried both trial and no trial but trial makes wayy more money than non-trials. You may make high-priced trials but keep trials nevertheless. Surfers prolly been burnt many times and they know if there's no-trial could very well mean site doesn't have much content/updates that could retain a trial member otherwise so the site owner maybe simply trying to force them to stay a member for atleast a month. Also, surfers may not wanna commit to a month without knowing if they were really gonna like the content :2 cents:

I agree... with Camazon my initial signup rate is $22 or so overall, lots of 3 month memberships too.

Catch with that, dealing specifically with 'seasoned' surfers is that their CC companies\third party processers will let them chargeback\credit at will no questions asked. Once again you can say it's our industries own fault, but none-the-less that's the state of things.

rev share owns, check my sig for 2 GREAT rev share programs

woo woo lots of lessons in this thread!

Webmaster A can do awesome with a revshare program and Webmaster B can do shitty with the same program... would be nice to see affiliates take some responsibility for the traffic they push, in the end its your marketing tactics and conversion rates that put and keep the money in your pocket

if you absolutely can't make out w/ a quality revshare program, go for a PPS... chances are you'll get shaved or politely given the boot because your trial conversions were shit anyway

The built-in NATS popup code beats sp2...

Ahh... so I went back and looked around...

Month to month, Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr

LSC $24.74 - $20.39 - $21.99 - $32.79
MC $20.76 - $24.33 - $24.19 - $30.83

So they have been going up.. but the valid part is that ND is $35 the entire time... Always making more even in Apr!

Like AW said, one day all the stupid fucks will get the picture.

So much Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.

Rev Share or PPS is all meaningless. what matters is the $$ that hits your bank account.

This relies on one thing, your ability to drive good traffic and monitor what the sponsor is paying you. And yes I'm also a sponsor and an affiliate.

Unless you know the hours worked X traffic sent X signups X payouts, everything else is BS.

Yes the site may sign up 1 in 50 hits, but takes all day to get 50 hits, you earn $30. It may sign up 1 in 5,000, but gets 5,000 hits and hour so you earn a lot more.

The only thing you can trust is to see the size of the checks and the number of hours you work to get those $$. You could work all day for a program that does everything but wipe your arse and earn less than a program who thinks you're a professional and expects you to do the work.

Do you follow my drift?

The only thing you can trust is the honesty of the sponsor and his desire to get and keep getting your traffic.

$35 per sign up on every single sign up is impossible. Think about it for two minutes and you see the problems. It cost money to run a site.

Hosting, software, hardware, content, design, offices, staff, affiliate tools, PROCESSING, profit etc. The average spend on every single sign up has to be $70.00 or are these sponsor telling you their costs are 5%?

The average surfer will get bored looking at the same site for two months, it's the nature of porn and his search for the stronger porn "HIGH". Add to that the narrow track of some porn site. How many times can a guy jerk off to different girls getting into the back of the same van and going through the same routine time after time?

Plus what is different with 90% of the sites out there. We sell porn, if it were truly exclusive it would not sell, it's variations on a theme. Boy meets girl, girl fucks him, or at least drops her panties. ;) Every single site out there has 100 similar sites offering the same porn. Yes different girl, sofa, panties combination but still the same porn.

So how does it work?

Simple sign ups from affiliates and non affiliate sign ups ratio is the key.

We increased our ratio to 60%, this months it's a promo 75%. Do we offer $30 PPS or do we keep it at 75%?

How can we afford it?

After 6 months members are returning to see the 540 pieces of NEW and mostly UNSEEN content we've added to the site. Show me the EXCLUSIVE site doing that.

Moral of this story is.

CHECK THE SIZE OF THE CHECKS.

Because hes a moron. I said that as well to him. He just wants to argue with me for the fuck of it.

45 days and 885 joins is hardly enough time or joins to calculate a stable join value. at least not an accurate one that will apply to the majority of your affiliates.

rebills have much more to do with the traffic source as well. the model itself doesn't make an affiliate more or less, the quality of their traffic does.

while the overall join value for your entire program might be one thing, it could and most likely is entirely different on an affiliate to affiliate basis. IE a whale with a quality traffic source is going to skew your program wide data.

you may or may not make more money with revshare. you can't throw out a single number and claim your entire program makes x per join. it's just not true. it's something that must be calculated on an affiliate to affiliate basis.

Stupid thread and then you get content producers writing essays in it HAHAHHA

I do close to $50 a join with meatcash :thumbsup

I'm also a sponsor, affiliate and been making my living from porn longer than most here.

But WTF do I know, I work from my bedroom in my Mum's house. :1orglaugh

Tell me what is wrong with what I posted.

Nothing is wrong with it. I was just saying there are people out there that might know a thing or two more about milking every last cent out of a surfer.

you still wanna buy those 2u cases?

gus ripped me off for $500... ahaha

what happened with gus? You got my email right? He has been solid for me in the past. Email me I will try to get it fixed up.