SegPay - GoFuckYourself.com

s0laris2 · 04-14-2006, 09:12 AM

Hello I am doing some research on segpay as a backup processer.

I learned that the executives of IBILL back when it crashed, jumped ship and started up SegPay

Did they jump ship because they are responsible for what happened and are starting a new biller only to repeat the process ?

Did they jump ship because they did not LIKE the way ibill was doing busines s and wanted to start their own and do it right ?

Please give me any information you know that is factual and not just do a ibill flaiming thread since we know that they are crooks

artman · 04-14-2006, 09:18 AM

i wouldnt want to touch anything that had any ties with ibill.. but that's just me

i-Affiliate_com · 04-14-2006, 09:25 AM

Segpay does not deal with US companies - You must be located or incorporated in an EU country
What Losers!

s0laris2 · 04-14-2006, 09:29 AM

Actually no you dont.

I am in canada and they willl process

s0laris2 · 04-14-2006, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i-Affiliate_com

Segpay does not deal with US companies - You must be located or incorporated in an EU country
What Losers!

Thats a concern too. if they are Executives that "ran" off with the money to start something in the EU, then by denying USA corps to bill through them may be a way for them to be protected if they decide to run again

hmmmmm

RaDiCaL_Kevin · 04-14-2006, 09:56 AM

Bump........... for more info!

DamageX · 04-14-2006, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaDiCaL_Kevin

Bump........... for more info!

Do a search.

i-Affiliate_com · 04-14-2006, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s0laris2

Actually no you dont.

I am in canada and they willl process

I am not sure they will - I unintentionally signed up thinking they were a sponsor and here's the response I got

"I just received notification that you completed the first steps of the online sales agreement however in order to utilize Segpay?s billing solutions you must be either located or incorporated in an approve EU country. At this time, we are unable to work with merchants located in the US. Do you have an EU address/corporation? "

s0laris2 · 04-14-2006, 10:09 AM

ahh ok.. ya my partner is in the UK

but why would EX ibill executives setup shop in the EU

Am I being paranoid ?

DAVESNOTHERE · 04-14-2006, 10:20 AM

yes, they are old ibill employees who ripped off everyone then jumped ship and formed segpay. and they will do it again with this new company. do not go with them what so ever. you've been warned

MacDaddyPlaya · 04-14-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVESNOTHERE

yes, they are old ibill employees who ripped off everyone then jumped ship and formed segpay. and they will do it again with this new company. do not go with them what so ever. you've been warned

That is a completely inaccurate statement. You either do not know what you are talking about or have an agenda. The former iBill employees who started SegPay did not rip anyone off. The owners of iBill that took money out of the company, are now the owners of IBDI (and still own iBill).

They are in the EU because a US IPSP merchant account is not easy to get. That is why iBill went down and there are only 2 real US IPSPs in the biz.

Booger · 04-14-2006, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacDaddyPlaya

That is a completely inaccurate statement. You either do not know what you are talking about or have an agenda. The former iBill employees who started SegPay did not rip anyone off. The owners of iBill that took money out of the company, are now the owners of IBDI (and still own iBill).

They are in the EU because a US IPSP merchant account is not easy to get. That is why iBill went down and there are only 2 real US IPSPs in the biz.

Mac i know you had some inside knowledge of ibill from employees you knew on a personal level but We both know that former ibill employees lied to webmasters .Whether they did it because they needed there bi-weekly payroll check and didnt want to get fired , because they were getting fat commision checks for every day ibill was stil open OR both the fact remains that at the time IBILL <not now> consisted of more than just 5 letters.Letting all the blame fall at the top of the food chain seems a little shallow to me.I know account reps and support got tons of emails and phone calls from webmaster who were losing there buissnesses cars and homes but they still re-assured them with broken promises and lies that they themselves knew not to be true yet the went along with con anyway.IF you ask me the former employees saw what there bosses did ,learned from it and are now looking to get rich just like the old ones did, by assuming no repsosibility and stealing there way to retirement. Fuck Segay and anyone who uses them is a fool

Anyone that ever answered a phone at ibill and said "can i help you" can go fuck themself in the ass with a saw-zaw

Rexk · 04-14-2006, 11:10 AM

I met Kristi and Cathy from SegPay at the Phoenix Forum....they seem like solid people

Major (Tom) · 04-14-2006, 11:17 AM

from what im told the peopel at segpay were the "good" people at i bill.
365 billing i believe and dont quote me on this has also alot of former i bill cronies. 365 bill has a domestic merchant account, seg pay doesnt. Im not insuating anything, but if you cant get a domestic merchant solution in the billing business.... well..

Duke

ClipMan · 04-14-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVESNOTHERE

yes, they are old ibill employees who ripped off everyone then jumped ship and formed segpay. and they will do it again with this new company. do not go with them what so ever. you've been warned

How bout changing your handle to DAVESNOTTRUTHFUL. I wish I had a dollar for each mis-statement you have made on these boards. The executives who have the clients' money at iBill are still at iBill.

DAVESNOTHERE · 04-14-2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booger

Mac i know you had some inside knowledge of ibill from employees you knew on a personal level but We both know that former ibill employees lied to webmasters .Whether they did it because they needed there bi-weekly payroll check and didnt want to get fired , because they were getting fat commision checks for every day ibill was stil open OR both the fact remains that at the time IBILL <not now> consisted of more than just 5 letters.Letting all the blame fall at the top of the food chain seems a little shallow to me.I know account reps and support got tons of emails and phone calls from webmaster who were losing there buissnesses cars and homes but they still re-assured them with broken promises and lies that they themselves knew not to be true yet the went along with con anyway.IF you ask me the former employees saw what there bosses did ,learned from it and are now looking to get rich just like the old ones did, by assuming no repsosibility and stealing there way to retirement. Fuck Segay and anyone who uses them is a fool

Anyone that ever answered a phone at ibill and said "can i help you" can go fuck themself in the ass with a saw-zaw

extremely well said!

DAVESNOTHERE · 04-14-2006, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClipMan

How bout changing your handle to DAVESNOTTRUTHFUL. I wish I had a dollar for each mis-statement you have made on these boards. The executives who have the clients' money at iBill are still at iBill.

aww...are you a segway scamming employee that i hurt your feelings???....you and your company can go fuck themselves

andrej_NDC · 04-14-2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClipMan

I wish I had a dollar for each mis-statement you have made on these boards.

You couldn't make more than $12 then.

madawgz · 04-14-2006, 01:04 PM

does segpay have something to do with the segway?

Manowar · 04-14-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madawgz

does segpay have something to do with the segway?

2 wheeled payment processing yo

LB-69 · 04-14-2006, 01:13 PM

Opened an account with Segpay, not using it now as I'm way satisfied with CCbill and Paycom.Anyway well organized and supported business. The info I got: the core of the Segpay coming form Europe and have nothing to do with Ibill(however maybe some employees of Ibill got jobs in Segpay).

Manowar · 04-14-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LB-69

Opened an account with Segpay, not using it now as I'm way satisfied with CCbill and Paycom.Anyway well organized and supported business. The info I got: the core of the Segpay coming form Europe and have nothing to do with Ibill(however maybe some employees of Ibill got jobs in Segpay).

where did that info come from?

LB-69 · 04-14-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manowar

where did that info come from?

My business partners.

Manowar · 04-14-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LB-69

My business partners.

I see.

I don't know if i'd feel comfortable using segpay until I knew who were the higher ups

LB-69 · 04-14-2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manowar

I see.

I don't know if i'd feel comfortable using segpay until I knew who were the higher ups

My guys is offline now, I will ask tomorrow for more info and let you know.

Gaybucks · 04-14-2006, 09:19 PM

THis is in the realm of rumor, but SegPay's whole gimmick is that supposedly there's an independent, third-party nonprofit that gets the funds and pays out, so that SegPay can supposedly never rip anyone off.

Problem is, from what I heard (not confirmed) nobody had ever heard of said so-called independent 3rd party agency, and some investigation showed it was owned by the same folks as SegPay.

If that's true, regardless of how good SegPay is or is not, the gimmick is deceptive as hell, and I'd be uncomfortable doing business with a company that was deceiving me at the git-go to try and earn my business.

Anyone with more details to confirm or deny, feel free to correct me.

bigdog · 04-14-2006, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaybucks

THis is in the realm of rumor, but SegPay's whole gimmick is that supposedly there's an independent, third-party nonprofit that gets the funds and pays out, so that SegPay can supposedly never rip anyone off.

Problem is, from what I heard (not confirmed) nobody had ever heard of said so-called independent 3rd party agency, and some investigation showed it was owned by the same folks as SegPay.

If that's true, regardless of how good SegPay is or is not, the gimmick is deceptive as hell, and I'd be uncomfortable doing business with a company that was deceiving me at the git-go to try and earn my business.

Anyone with more details to confirm or deny, feel free to correct me.

I have always wondered the same thing about that setup they have. How can they prove it

Webby · 04-14-2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaybucks

THis is in the realm of rumor, but SegPay's whole gimmick is that supposedly there's an independent, third-party nonprofit that gets the funds and pays out, so that SegPay can supposedly never rip anyone off.

Problem is, from what I heard (not confirmed) nobody had ever heard of said so-called independent 3rd party agency, and some investigation showed it was owned by the same folks as SegPay.

If that's true, regardless of how good SegPay is or is not, the gimmick is deceptive as hell, and I'd be uncomfortable doing business with a company that was deceiving me at the git-go to try and earn my business.

Anyone with more details to confirm or deny, feel free to correct me.

Why don't you ask SegPay?

What "gimmick" are you referring to? The principle of third-party monitoring is operated by a few TTP's within the EU. It's also a principle which is severely currently lacking in TTP's within the US, - especially considering the volume of transactions some "leading" processors handle.

BTW SegPay is an EU IPSP and only handles business from EU individuals or companies with a presence in that banking region.

Well Dunn · 04-14-2006, 10:35 PM

I would avoid them until they at least build up a solid rep. Even then though, ibill has left a bad taste in plenty of webmasters' mouths.

chupacabra · 04-14-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaybucks

THis is in the realm of rumor, but SegPay's whole gimmick is that supposedly there's an independent, third-party nonprofit that gets the funds and pays out, so that SegPay can supposedly never rip anyone off.

Problem is, from what I heard (not confirmed) nobody had ever heard of said so-called independent 3rd party agency, and some investigation showed it was owned by the same folks as SegPay.

If that's true, regardless of how good SegPay is or is not, the gimmick is deceptive as hell, and I'd be uncomfortable doing business with a company that was deceiving me at the git-go to try and earn my business.

Anyone with more details to confirm or deny, feel free to correct me.

isn't this the same "gimmick" that iBill introduced along w/ GKard during their post-2004 foray? sounds truly familiar... TOCCATA or something like that? i would be extremely concerned if this is the same supposed *impartial 3rd party*..

Webby · 04-14-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Well Dunn

I would avoid them until they at least build up a solid rep. Even then though, ibill has left a bad taste in plenty of webmasters' mouths.

The relevance of a "solid rep" based on verbal and the usual webmaster assessment "because I've deal't with them for years", "X has a good rep in the adult industry" and "they always pay" really means nada.

Any business has two ways to go - up or down, - they never stand still.

Possibly a more relevant measure of "rep" in a TTP is when they have implemented some form of third-party monitoring to provide security of clients funds in the event of their demise.

In fact, I sure as hell would not deal with any TTP unless they did have this in place - irrespective of their "rep". Rep counts for nothing when a liquidator takes over.

Every processor on the net, whether they deal with adult or not, should already have adequate provision and security for client funds.

Webby · 04-14-2006, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chupacabra

isn't this the same "gimmick" that iBill introduced along w/ GKard during their post-2004 foray? sounds truly familiar... TOCCATA or something like that? i would be extremely concerned if this is the same supposed *impartial 3rd party*..

Not my place to say chupacabra

, I'm sure SegPay can speak for themselves since I don't know the inner workings of their biz, but do know many webmasters should be and are, extremely grateful for the intervention of TOCCATA and individuals involved in that company.

Markit · 04-15-2006, 03:23 AM

bump

more please

RaDiCaL_Kevin · 04-15-2006, 07:40 AM

I agree Markit...bump

s0laris2 · 04-15-2006, 09:48 AM

hmm from what I can gather MacDaddyPlaya seems to have the most inside information and does not look like he is speculating.

Most of the posts are about what they think segpay is or what the feel segpay is doing, etc.

Third party billers are becoming harder and harder to come by and I just hope SegPay is a breath of fresh air.

Theo · 04-15-2006, 11:30 AM

DieselAction v3.0 will have Segpay as 2nd processor on cascade and this was a decision taken after research.

Manowar · 04-15-2006, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

DieselAction v3.0 will have Segpay as 2nd processor on cascade and this was a decision taken after research.

That throws a spanner into the works, interesting

Booger · 04-18-2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaybucks

THis is in the realm of rumor, but SegPay's whole gimmick is that supposedly there's an independent, third-party nonprofit that gets the funds and pays out, so that SegPay can supposedly never rip anyone off.

Problem is, from what I heard (not confirmed) nobody had ever heard of said so-called independent 3rd party agency, and some investigation showed it was owned by the same folks as SegPay.

If that's true, regardless of how good SegPay is or is not, the gimmick is deceptive as hell, and I'd be uncomfortable doing business with a company that was deceiving me at the git-go to try and earn my business.

Anyone with more details to confirm or deny, feel free to correct me.

NOT rumour...Segpay uses symetrexx they are the supposed 3rd party non profit middleman that your referring to ..just so happens that IBILL uses symetrexx for GKARD payments

And as far as there not missing payments becuase of this 3rd party im not so sure that can be trusted.. IBILL hasnt tpaid reserves on GKARd revenue that was going through symetrexx after saying they didnt touch webmaster funds

gooddomains · 04-18-2006, 10:08 AM

Segpay are good people

Webby · 04-18-2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooddomains

Segpay are good people

Agree gooddomains.

There is a lot of speculation over SegPay - and unqualified bullshit. As will most companies, it's not the company that matters - it's the people behind it and the cred they have.

Let's put it another way

The folks behind SegPay have far more banking cred and experience than iBill ever had and have proven themselves to be more than honorable already.

willow · 04-18-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booger

NOT rumour...Segpay uses symetrexx they are the supposed 3rd party non profit middleman that your referring to ..just so happens that IBILL uses symetrexx for GKARD payments

And as far as there not missing payments becuase of this 3rd party im not so sure that can be trusted.. IBILL hasnt tpaid reserves on GKARd revenue that was going through symetrexx after saying they didnt touch webmaster funds

Their website aboutus page says they use Inteca.

Webby · 04-18-2006, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow

Their website aboutus page says they use Inteca.

And it would have saved a lot of "words" on this thread if anyone who actually had an interest in an EU IPSP actually read SegPay's website

But.. it's GFY

DEA - banned for life · 04-19-2006, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow

Their website aboutus page says they use Inteca.

IBILL Uses Inteca too

, Sorry i got the symetrexx confused with inteca ..theres soooo many names attached to IBILL its hard to keep up

26MLR · 05-26-2006, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacDaddyPlaya

That is a completely inaccurate statement. You either do not know what you are talking about or have an agenda. The former iBill employees who started SegPay did not rip anyone off. The owners of iBill that took money out of the company, are now the owners of IBDI (and still own iBill).

They are in the EU because a US IPSP merchant account is not easy to get. That is why iBill went down and there are only 2 real US IPSPs in the biz.

There are 3 US IPSPs, CCBill, Paycom and 365.

26MLR · 05-26-2006, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacDaddyPlaya

That is a completely inaccurate statement. You either do not know what you are talking about or have an agenda. The former iBill employees who started SegPay did not rip anyone off. The owners of iBill that took money out of the company, are now the owners of IBDI (and still own iBill).

They are in the EU because a US IPSP merchant account is not easy to get. That is why iBill went down and there are only 2 real US IPSPs in the biz.

There are 3 US IPSPs, CCBill, Paycom and 365.

inthestars · 06-21-2006, 03:11 AM

I talked to a British guy at Cybernext Expo and he told me that he heard that Segpay was getting out of the adult processing business. This is just a heads up to any webmasters in Europe who may be currently dealing with them. Be careful.

BIGTYMER · 06-21-2006, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexk

I met Kristi and Cathy from SegPay at the Phoenix Forum....they seem like solid people

Oh! That surely makes them legit.

Pron Don · 06-21-2006, 04:17 AM

never heard of them

KGucci · 06-21-2006, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthestars

I talked to a British guy at Cybernext Expo and he told me that he heard that Segpay was getting out of the adult processing business. This is just a heads up to any webmasters in Europe who may be currently dealing with them. Be careful.

inthestars ~ Not sure who told you this but it is not true. We have and will continue to process for adult.

If anyone has any questions regarding SegPay, feel free to contact me directly.

Fonz · 06-30-2006, 01:35 AM

We've been using Segpay for 7 months now and they've always been very correct and helpful.

04-14-2006, 09:12 AM	#1
s0laris2 Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 317	SegPay Hello I am doing some research on segpay as a backup processer. I learned that the executives of IBILL back when it crashed, jumped ship and started up SegPay Did they jump ship because they are responsible for what happened and are starting a new biller only to repeat the process ? Did they jump ship because they did not LIKE the way ibill was doing busines s and wanted to start their own and do it right ? Please give me any information you know that is factual and not just do a ibill flaiming thread since we know that they are crooks __________________

04-14-2006, 09:29 AM	#4
s0laris2 Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 317	Actually no you dont. I am in canada and they willl process __________________

04-14-2006, 09:56 AM	#6
RaDiCaL_Kevin Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 276	Bump........... for more info! __________________ Exclusive & Unique Content - FGHs - $25 PPS - 60% Rev $25 Sign Up Bonus! Nats or CCBill!

04-14-2006, 10:09 AM	#9
s0laris2 Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 317	ahh ok.. ya my partner is in the UK but why would EX ibill executives setup shop in the EU Am I being paranoid ? __________________

04-14-2006, 11:10 AM	#13
Rexk Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 704	I met Kristi and Cathy from SegPay at the Phoenix Forum....they seem like solid people __________________

04-14-2006, 09:18 AM	#2
artman Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 770	i wouldnt want to touch anything that had any ties with ibill.. but that's just me

04-14-2006, 09:25 AM	#3
i-Affiliate_com So Fucking Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 181	Segpay does not deal with US companies - You must be located or incorporated in an EU country What Losers!

04-14-2006, 10:20 AM	#10
DAVESNOTHERE Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 37	yes, they are old ibill employees who ripped off everyone then jumped ship and formed segpay. and they will do it again with this new company. do not go with them what so ever. you've been warned

04-14-2006, 11:17 AM	#14
Major (Tom) White Pride Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Null Posts: 31,043	from what im told the peopel at segpay were the "good" people at i bill. 365 billing i believe and dont quote me on this has also alot of former i bill cronies. 365 bill has a domestic merchant account, seg pay doesnt. Im not insuating anything, but if you cant get a domestic merchant solution in the billing business.... well.. Duke __________________ WHITE LIVES MATTER

04-14-2006, 01:04 PM	#19
madawgz 8.8.8.8 Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Noordermarkt Posts: 30,509	does segpay have something to do with the segway? __________________ TAEMDLRMSKRJIXMRLSMRJ.

04-14-2006, 01:13 PM	#21
LB-69 Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Land of Smiling Pussy Posts: 1,322	Re Opened an account with Segpay, not using it now as I'm way satisfied with CCbill and Paycom.Anyway well organized and supported business. The info I got: the core of the Segpay coming form Europe and have nothing to do with Ibill(however maybe some employees of Ibill got jobs in Segpay). __________________ ICQ: 58181146 ExoticGold - 100% Original Transexual Affiliate Program, So Hot, Straight Men Get Sprung!

04-14-2006, 09:19 PM	#26
Gaybucks Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 451	THis is in the realm of rumor, but SegPay's whole gimmick is that supposedly there's an independent, third-party nonprofit that gets the funds and pays out, so that SegPay can supposedly never rip anyone off. Problem is, from what I heard (not confirmed) nobody had ever heard of said so-called independent 3rd party agency, and some investigation showed it was owned by the same folks as SegPay. If that's true, regardless of how good SegPay is or is not, the gimmick is deceptive as hell, and I'd be uncomfortable doing business with a company that was deceiving me at the git-go to try and earn my business. Anyone with more details to confirm or deny, feel free to correct me. __________________ Gaybucks.com 100% exclusive American guys - hosted movie galleries - NATS - Boyfunk.com - Boysfeetclub.com - AJsCloset.com- SkylerDeVoss.com ICQ 272-995-402

04-14-2006, 10:35 PM	#29
Well Dunn Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,026	I would avoid them until they at least build up a solid rep. Even then though, ibill has left a bad taste in plenty of webmasters' mouths. __________________ ICQ: 471859252 Mailers! ICQ me I want your traffic!!!! We will pay daily, weekly, monthly, WHATEVER! Just contact me and we will get you paid!

04-15-2006, 03:23 AM	#33
Markit Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,305	bump more please __________________

04-15-2006, 07:40 AM	#34
RaDiCaL_Kevin Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 276	I agree Markit...bump __________________ Exclusive & Unique Content - FGHs - $25 PPS - 60% Rev $25 Sign Up Bonus! Nats or CCBill!

04-15-2006, 09:48 AM	#35
s0laris2 Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 317	hmm from what I can gather MacDaddyPlaya seems to have the most inside information and does not look like he is speculating. Most of the posts are about what they think segpay is or what the feel segpay is doing, etc. Third party billers are becoming harder and harder to come by and I just hope SegPay is a breath of fresh air. __________________

04-15-2006, 11:30 AM	#36
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	DieselAction v3.0 will have Segpay as 2nd processor on cascade and this was a decision taken after research.

04-18-2006, 10:08 AM	#39
gooddomains Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,127	Segpay are good people

06-21-2006, 03:11 AM	#46
inthestars Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 2,021	I talked to a British guy at Cybernext Expo and he told me that he heard that Segpay was getting out of the adult processing business. This is just a heads up to any webmasters in Europe who may be currently dealing with them. Be careful.

06-21-2006, 04:17 AM	#48
Pron Don Internet Entrepeneur Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 572	never heard of them

06-30-2006, 01:35 AM	#50
Fonz Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hellgium Posts: 486	We've been using Segpay for 7 months now and they've always been very correct and helpful. __________________ hardlinks for sale - ICQ 24298240 - linksatsmilinpussy.com