When Bonds breaks Ruth's record with 715, how will he be portrayed?

[Cory W]

Will it be the exclamation mark behind the demise of America's past time, or will he be a legend?

Both?

[After Shock Media]

As a cheater.
Bonds did it on roids, Ruth did it overweight and drunk.

[GUNNER]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

As a cheater.
Bonds did it on roids, Ruth did it overweight and drunk.

as a cheater???
because he *MAY* have been on steroids, he is less deserving of the record?

[Kevsh]

I don't care much about baseball, but I think it's a tragedy that the single-season home run record was obliterated by guys on steroids.

I'd wipe all the records out by McGwire and Bonds, but baseball won't - they ignored the problem and McGwire, Bonds, etc. took advantage. So can you blame them? Yes and no. But really, baseball itself deserves the black eye for letting it get to this.

[Ramos]

One of the best players ever!

changed the game

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by GUNNER

as a cheater???
because he *MAY* have been on steroids, he is less deserving of the record?

May???

If you look at his body over the course of a few years or hell at times even a season he went through more changed than David Brennen after stubbing his toe.


Problem is it is not just bonds, and the hitters I know pitchers and other players also juiced up.

[axelcat]

It will be a sad day in baseball in my opinion, those records were unreachable before and nowadays with steroids all the bigtime records will be broken. It's just not fair, then again life's not fair.

[GUNNER]

more importantly, who cares.

professional sports have ALWAYS involved performance enhancing drugs of one kind or another... big deal.

[RawAlex]

Major league asterix next to his name... his accomplishments are not just about baseball, but about drug science.

Alex

[Cory W]

I used to go watch the Royals back in '89. I remember when Bo, McGuire and Canseco were touted for hitting 40 (I think Bo maxed out at 35).

My how things change.

[fris]

bonds is useless

[Pure Evil]

Originally Posted by GUNNER

as a cheater???
because he *MAY* have been on steroids, he is less deserving of the record?

i would have to say that is correct. yes he is less deserving if he used juice. he could not have done it without cheating or he would have

[GUNNER]

Originally Posted by Pure Evil

i would have to say that is correct. yes he is less deserving if he used juice. he could not have done it without cheating or he would have

save it.

just another person who thinks steroids are the Holy Grail. you take a pill or shot and magically your 100x better athlete... right.

[Pure Evil]

Originally Posted by GUNNER

save it.

just another person who thinks steroids are the Holy Grail. you take a pill or shot and magically your 100x better athlete... right.

so you dont think that steroids, HGH, etc have any measureable difference on the athletes performance?

[OG LennyT]

Originally Posted by GUNNER

as a cheater???
because he *MAY* have been on steroids, he is less deserving of the record?

Yes, yes he is less deserving imho.


fuck Barry Bonds, he will never belong with the likes of Ruth, Aaron, Williams, Cobb, etc.

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

Will it be the exclamation mark behind the demise of America's past time, or will he be a legend?

Both?

Ruth doesnt hold the home run record. He's second at 714. Aaron is at 755.

[Cory W]

Originally Posted by Atticus

Ruth doesnt hold the home run record. He's second at 714. Aaron is at 755.

My fault, but Ruth is next on Bond's list, right?

[GUNNER]

Originally Posted by Pure Evil

so you dont think that steroids, HGH, etc have any measureable difference on the athletes performance?

they can have a positive effect, but you can find just as many scientific studies that show steroids and HGH do NOT have athletic enhancing qualities.
I'm not suggesting that Bond's performance wasn't in any way enhanced by the use of pro-hormones or anabolic/androgenic steroids, but even so, does that make him less deserving of his records?

not in my opinion.

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

My fault, but Ruth is next on Bond's list, right?

yes, Ruth is next on the list.

Personally since its fairly obvious that he was on the juice I think he should have an asterisk by his name in the record book. As should McGwire and Sosa. Although Roids dont make you 100 times better as somebody else stated, they do give the player an unfair advantage by making them stronger and quicker.

[dynastoned]

if bonds passes all the records hes #1 in my book. fuck the rest..

[Snake Doctor]

Bonds is without a doubt the best player of his generation and arguably the best player of all time.

Did he possibly use steroids and disgrace himself and the game? Maybe so.
Do you put an asterisk next to the records? No. They are what they are.
If you want to get into technicalities, there were changes to the game in the 1920s that really made it easy for Ruth to change the game. For instance, they started using new balls throughout the game, keeping them white and easier to see. Pitchers generally went the whole game, rather than bringing in specialists all the time. The laces on the baseballs were sewn flat. That essentially meant that pitchers were trying to throw a cue ball, making it harder to throw curves.
You can make a lot of arguments either way, but the bottom line is the man can flat out hit a baseball like nobody else in the world.

[Biggy]

he should go down as a legend and the best baseball player ever.

[Ramos]

if you say cheater...yur a hater and says alot about you

[GUNNER]

Originally Posted by dynastoned

if bonds passes all the records hes #1 in my book. fuck the rest..

but he did it while on roids, wahhn wahhhn , it shouldn't count!

[Snake Doctor]

Also, and this is something that really pisses me off about this whole steroid "controversy" is that until very recently STEROIDS WEREN'T AGAINST THE RULES.

Even if Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa were all shooting each other up with anadrol before every game in the year(s) they broke the home run record it wouldn't matter because they weren't breaking the rules.

Now I agree that these are things that Ruth and Aaron never had access to, but then again in their day you couldn't tear your ACL and come back or have Tommy John surgery and resume your career after a ligament injury. So using that logic we should delete everyone who has ever had ligament surgery from the record books also.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by Ramos

if you say cheater...yur a hater and says alot about you

Thread asks how he would be portrayed, not what we personally thought.

[Downtime]

as a fuckin cheater

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

Also, and this is something that really pisses me off about this whole steroid "controversy" is that until very recently STEROIDS WEREN'T AGAINST THE RULES.

Even if Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa were all shooting each other up with anadrol before every game in the year(s) they broke the home run record it wouldn't matter because they weren't breaking the rules.

Now I agree that these are things that Ruth and Aaron never had access to, but then again in their day you couldn't tear your ACL and come back or have Tommy John surgery and resume your career after a ligament injury. So using that logic we should delete everyone who has ever had ligament surgery from the record books also.

This is the main point. What they did wasn't illegal nor against any rules. Many athletes in many sports take supposedly enhancing formulas. The guys playing today are playing a much harder game. Maybe it evens out when you consider that the pitchers are stronger and better today than they were in Ruth's time.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

Will it be the exclamation mark behind the demise of America's past time, or will he be a legend?

Both?

It's a good question. I guess it also depends on what we think the players contributed to the game, records aside. I mean look at Arnold Strwartsnegger (sp?). He was a big roid user and remains a legend in the body building world.

[L-Pink]

Viagra won't help you pick up women, it only helps once you start hitt'in it.

Same principal with steroids and a baseball, once Bonds picks the right pitch .......

[hova]

Originally Posted by Mike33

It's a good question. I guess it also depends on what we think the players contributed to the game, records aside. I mean look at Arnold Strwartsnegger (sp?). He was a big roid user and remains a legend in the body building world.

I do think that using roids are more accepted in the bodybuilding world

[Biggy]

bonds gets so much heat cause he's an asshole. he was the biggest prick before the steroid scandal hit. he's the only player not in the major league baseball players association (thats why he's not in video games). he negotiated for his own row of seats on the plane, and there were disputes when a teammate sat in his row.

he's a big time arrogant cry baby, always has been - and the press hasn't forgotten about it, and thats why there are daily reminders about his steroid use.

with that said, he is still the best player ever and should go down as a legend. his antics are really no different than some of the other great assholes to play the game and even treat fans like dirt - ty cobb, babe ruth, mickey mantle, etc.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by hova

I do think that using roids are more accepted in the bodybuilding world

Hell, roids are a REQUIREMENT in the bodybuilding world.

They have separate competitions for "natural" bodybuilders. Those guys are like half the size of the ones you see in Mr Olympia.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

Also, and this is something that really pisses me off about this whole steroid "controversy" is that until very recently STEROIDS WEREN'T AGAINST THE RULES.

Even if Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa were all shooting each other up with anadrol before every game in the year(s) they broke the home run record it wouldn't matter because they weren't breaking the rules.

Now I agree that these are things that Ruth and Aaron never had access to, but then again in their day you couldn't tear your ACL and come back or have Tommy John surgery and resume your career after a ligament injury. So using that logic we should delete everyone who has ever had ligament surgery from the record books also.

Murder, selling heroin, and arson aren't against baseballs rules either ... they are however illegal. At the time steroids might not have been against baseballs rules but they were illegal drugs.

If you or I can be arrested for something in the real world, OBVIOUSLY they are illegal.

.

[Cory W]

I think the majority of the sportsworld will not accept him. In the future, depending on how history is written, I doubt it changes much.

He was a great player before the scandal. Biggy, you are right about his dejected personality in regards to media perception; that will taint overall public perspective.

IMO

[Raven]

Pete Rose did a little gambling..and they won't let HIM in...EVER.

Bonds is an absolute asshole and a disgrace.....whose claim to fame is that he's rude and used 'roids to accomplish whatever he was out to do.....I vote no. Not that anyone cares..at the Baseball Commissioner's office...

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by Raven

Pete Rose did a little gambling..and they won't let HIM in...EVER.

...

Records and hall of fame are different.

[Spunky]

Always will have a black mark against him..steroid monkeys have to cheat

[Raven]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Records and hall of fame are different.

I know. But, I will vilify Bonds whether he breaks the record or not. Obnoxious bastard.

[Manowar]

I think he will have recognition, just not as much

[Pure Evil]

Originally Posted by Ramos

if you say cheater...yur a hater and says alot about you

no it means i have a firm grasp of the english language. IF he used steroids, which are not only illegal but AGAINST THE RULES of major league baseball, then by definition he is a CHEATER. whether i like him or not has nothing to do with it.

[Cory W]

No one is arguing his talent. He has talent, and he is one of the greats with or without the roids.

Did the roids push him into another galaxy that is well beyond what a "roidless" athlete could accomplish? Probably not completely, however the point is justifiable. It would be unlikely that athletes not using would accomplish what those that used did. But that said, you must first have the talent and that talent must already exceed others talent.

[Cory W]

As I said before, I don't think the public will welcome his records. But I don't think it is all due to steroids, that is just the easiest, most efficient target / justification.

Other reasons revolve more around baseball's loss of luster. I think the strikes, salary cap issues and the movement towards foreign players have changed the identity of the game; stripped the passion a bit. I don't think fans are as a attached to the game and are reluctant to trust players, many of which don't speak english.

The US gets beat in the olympics, it really isn't our sport anymore. Bonds being a jerk to the media only propels it.

It isn't America's past time anymore.

[BlueWire]

First off...if steroids made it so damn easy to hit homeruns it seems like everyone would be hitting 70 home runs per season? Dont dissmiss the talent.

2ndly, this is baseball's mess. They knew it was going on and they did nothing because they needed the revenue to make up for the strike.


This is not the Barry Bonds on Steroids era...This is THE STEROID ERA. All the stats will be different.


People evolve, in this case drugs evolve, baseball parks get smaller...

As much as people want to compare records from 1920 to 2000...you just can't. In 1920 the ball was like a sand bag, the parks were 25% larger, the bats were heavier, there was no science behind athletics (legal or illegal)....I mean come on...

When Ruth was doing what he was doing he would hit 400% more home runs than his next closest competitor in some years. If someone did that now they'd hit 200 home runs.

Anyone that can stop and think for 2 seconds would realize hitting that many homeruns back then is far more impressive than now....steroids aside.

Yes yes...the pitching is more advanced now...but thats the only arguement

[2HousePlague]

This is all a somewhat less important discussion, when you consider that female athletes are going to eclipse male athletes very soon in a number of traditionally male-dominated sports, swimming is going to be the first. But, in other, more endurance oriented sports, like the Marathon, the margin between the uber-elite athletes of the 2 sexes has been narrow for a long time. One must wonder what is happening to women, then, that they should be gaining on us so... Roids?

2hp

[BlueWire]

So the ladies are going to takeover the sports that are on ESPN2 at 3AM

Big deal

[QUOTE=2HousePlague]

This is all a somewhat less important discussion, when you consider that female athletes are going to eclipse male athletes very soon in a number of traditionally male-dominated sports, swimming is going to be the first. But, in other, more endurance oriented sports, like the Marathon, the margin between the uber-elite athletes of the 2 sexes has been narrow for a long time. One must wonder what is happening to women, then, that they should be gaining on us so... Roids?

2hp[/QUOT

[BlueWire]

Originally Posted by Pure Evil

no it means i have a firm grasp of the english language. IF he used steroids, which are not only illegal but AGAINST THE RULES of major league baseball, then by definition he is a CHEATER. whether i like him or not has nothing to do with it.

I'd agree with you if there were definite rules and testing in place when he did them. The rules are ambiguous, there was no testing...baseball WANTED all these homeruns to bring itself back from the strike

If you're going to blame someone, blame bud selig more than Barry Bonds....he's just one of hundreds of players that have been on the juice...he was just that much better than them

[2HousePlague]

[QUOTE=BlueWire]So the ladies are going to takeover the sports that are on ESPN2 at 3AM

Big deal

Originally Posted by 2HousePlague

This is all a somewhat less important discussion, when you consider that female athletes are going to eclipse male athletes very soon in a number of traditionally male-dominated sports, swimming is going to be the first. But, in other, more endurance oriented sports, like the Marathon, the margin between the uber-elite athletes of the 2 sexes has been narrow for a long time. One must wonder what is happening to women, then, that they should be gaining on us so... Roids?

2hp[/QUOT

TV is a dead medium.

Also, ask this girl what she made last year...

2hp

[BlueWire]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Murder, selling heroin, and arson aren't against baseballs rules either ... they are however illegal. At the time steroids might not have been against baseballs rules but they were illegal drugs.

If you or I can be arrested for something in the real world, OBVIOUSLY they are illegal.

.

If darryl strawberry can get 4 chances to come back and play baseball then I think this arguement can be thrown out. Nobody cares about drug use in sports...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8....9...10 strikes your out? maybe

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Biggy

bonds gets so much heat cause he's an asshole. he was the biggest prick before the steroid scandal hit. he's the only player not in the major league baseball players association (thats why he's not in video games). he negotiated for his own row of seats on the plane, and there were disputes when a teammate sat in his row.

he's a big time arrogant cry baby, always has been - and the press hasn't forgotten about it, and thats why there are daily reminders about his steroid use.

with that said, he is still the best player ever and should go down as a legend. his antics are really no different than some of the other great assholes to play the game and even treat fans like dirt - ty cobb, babe ruth, mickey mantle, etc.

Personality does and should carry weight, yes you're right, and I think that is a legit reason to ostrasize a player, even a great player. Guys like Gretzky and Jordan were examples not only of talent, but also sportsmanship and grace.