A Thought about the Immigration Issue. - GoFuckYourself.com

Alex · 04-10-2006, 10:42 PM

For those arguing that we cant deport illegal immigrants because they take the jobs that no one else wants, here is a question for you:

Who cuts the lawns in states like Alabama, Ohio, Mississippi and the 46 or so other states that dont have large amounts of illegal immigrants.

Who cleans the bathrooms
Mows the dishes
Works on the fields
ETC

Just my two cents

Sly · 04-10-2006, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

For those arguing that we cant deport illegal immigrants because they take the jobs that no one else wants, here is a question for you:

Who cuts the lawns in states like Alabama, Ohio, Mississippi and the 46 or so other states that dont have large amounts of illegal immigrants.

Who cleans the bathrooms
Mows the dishes
Works on the fields
ETC

Just my two cents

Those states may not have the illegal immigrants California does, but they still have enough to do the work, and they do it.

colpanic · 04-10-2006, 10:57 PM

I've made that point as well. I grew up in Pennsylvania, and we still had plenty of people working construction and doing housekeeping. It's a bullshit argument.

I've had college educated friends get deported for not having a proper visa, why should some uneducated guy get in easier?

Matt 26z · 04-10-2006, 10:57 PM

The illegals actually do not want those jobs. The reason why they are pushing for legalization is so they can persue better careers, which means more job competition for Americans.

Then when they move up we'll need more Mexicans to fill the jobs the newly Mexican-American's now refuse to do, right?

Their entire goal is to heavily populate areas of the US so they can get their fellow Mexicans elected into various levels of government. Then they will use that power for the greater good of Mexico.

I saw this posted on a board today and thought it was disgusting...

-----
The Sons of dogs stole our land from our forefathers...now it's time to take our country back!

We are a majority, we have NOTHING TO LOSE, and the worlds ricchest country to gain!!!

Viva la RAZA!

Unidos estados de mex-americanos
------

tony286 · 04-10-2006, 10:59 PM

They want to end illegals arrest a few ceo's whose companies hire them. It would be fixed faster then you can imagine lol

Alex · 04-10-2006, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

Those states may not have the illegal immigrants California does, but they still have enough to do the work, and they do it.

So then why is it different for california.

We have a 5.0% unemployment rate. And population than 47 other states (even not counting the illegals).

Surely we can find someone to do the work.

minusonebit · 04-10-2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Surely we can find someone to do the work.

Damn straight we could. I know of two people right now who cant find a steady job of any kind. This arguement that these jobs would go unfilled if we depot all of the fucking illegals is 100% Pure, Grade A American Bullshit.

They are taking assignments out of one of those work-today, paid-today type of places when they can get them. They do construction. The thing that kills me is he says there are 10-15 mexicans there every morning before he gets there, and he comes 30 min before opening to secure his spot in line.

And Ohio is being overrun just as bad as any other state. I dont care how many the census says we have, keep in mind that the little fuckers like to live in the woods in campers where they cannot really be found and they dont have credit cards, phones and stuff like that that gets them in the system. I know this is a fact because a family member worked on the last census, it was her job to go out to the farms and try to get as many people to answer the questions as possible.

I am sick and tired of watching this country get bent over and fucked by a bunch of fucking morons who want to piss away every asset this country has so that they can sleep at night knowing that everyone has been humanely provided for at my expense.

Alex · 04-10-2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minusonebit

Damn straight we could. I know of two people right now who cant find a steady job of any kind. This arguement that these jobs would go unfilled if we depot all of the fucking illegals is 100% Pure, Grade A American Bullshit.

They are taking assignments out of one of those work-today, paid-today type of places when they can get them. They do construction. The thing that kills me is he says there are 10-15 mexicans there every morning before he gets there, and he comes 30 min before opening to secure his spot in line.

And Ohio is being overrun just as bad as any other state. I dont care how many the census says we have, keep in mind that the little fuckers like to live in the woods in campers where they cannot really be found and they dont have credit cards, phones and stuff like that that gets them in the system. I know this is a fact because a family member worked on the last census, it was her job to go out to the farms and try to get as many people to answer the questions as possible.

I am sick and tired of watching this country get bent over and fucked by a bunch of fucking morons who want to piss away every asset this country has so that they can sleep at night knowing that everyone has been humanely provided for at my expense.

And you live in Michigan.

I can think of a dozen people personally in California who need a job.

Matt 26z · 04-10-2006, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Surely we can find someone to do the work.

Nobody should buy into the MYTH that Mexicans do work that Americans refuse.

This all comes back to money. Business owners found out they could hire Mexicans for half the price as an American, and Americans had to then refuse those jobs because of the new sub standard wages.

Many home and office cleaning services for instance have stopped hiring American women because they know an illegal Mexican will take minimum wage and be happy with it. The lower wages being paid out also allow the cleaning services to get more contracts because they can submit lower bids.

The construction work stuff is bullshit. There are plenty of American men willing to do that work, many of whom are not having enough work thrown their way. So they sit at home while an illegal Mexican does their jobs.

The working in the fileds stuff is iffy. Depends on what you are talking about. Not too long ago farmers would hire junior high and high school studends to work the fields, but they've found that illegal Mexicans work even cheaper. An awful lot of these farmers don't even bother hiring American's anymore.

Sly · 04-10-2006, 11:16 PM

Hmm... interesting points.

Although, I was out all weekend to various stores and restaurants. I would say about 85% of the stores had "help wanted" signs. Would you like me to go back and get the numbers so you guys can have your friends call up for an interview? Yes, most were shit jobs, but they WERE available paying jobs. Why aren't your broke and unemployed friends taking up those jobs if they're so desperate for work?

Sly · 04-10-2006, 11:19 PM

Oh, and those other states with lower illegal immigration rates... they have unemployment rates too. So if illegals are taking up so many jobs Americans want, then why are areas with a smaller illegal population seeing the same unemployment rates? Why aren't those anxious Americans hopping up every morning to work since they don't have Mexicans to compete with?

Sly · 04-10-2006, 11:24 PM

California has an unemployment rate of 5%. Kansas is 4.7%. Kentucky is 6.3%. Indiana is 5.1%. Illinois is 5%. Michigan is 6.6%! Oregon is 5.6%.

http://www.bls.gov/lau/

There is really no significant difference between states with and without high illegal populations. Damn, Michigan is lazy, damn illegal Canadian immigrants!

iWeb_Allan · 04-10-2006, 11:27 PM

Personally, I think it's lack of nationalism.

I was once a banker who got an offer from Chase Manhattan but I just scoffed at the idea. I didn't want other nationalities making profits out of what little knowledge and expertise I may have.

So why the fuck I'm in this business? That's another story though...

tony286 · 04-10-2006, 11:29 PM

dont people see illegal's are the gay marriage for 2006 . Once again the sheep will vote against their own interests. lol

minusonebit · 04-10-2006, 11:30 PM

Alot of places are always "taking applications" and have help wanted signs up. Dosent mean they are hiring anyone, or it sometimes means they are taking apps and sifting through the ones they think they can get to work for low wages and snag those employees up.

Some companies always have a help wanted sign up and an ad in the paper from the day they open the doors to the day they shut them.

minusonebit · 04-10-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

dont people see illegal's are the gay marriage for 2006 . Once again the sheep will vote against their own interests. lol

You know, that may well be. While this is going on, I am sure Bush and his crew of hand-selected terrorists are up to something (probably getting ready to bomb Iran, as it would appear from news reports) and is using this as a distraction.

But unless he is trying to suspend whats left of the consitution (not alot left after the Patriot Act) or is trying to merge the EU and US Govts (heh, the UN is pretty close to that anyway) or is trying to have all the Libertarians rounded up and gassed (which he would do if he was smart), then I dont really care and this time I'll be glad to be the sheep.

If it takes letting Bush pull the Iran bombing to get this issue sealed up, so be it. Its worth it. Tightening up that border is not against my intrest and if we have to go a little futher into war debt to pull it off, who the hell cares? Whats another ~$500 billion when you already have several trillion in debt?

wdsguy · 04-10-2006, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

For those arguing that we cant deport illegal immigrants because they take the jobs that no one else wants, here is a question for you:

Who cuts the lawns in states like Alabama, Ohio, Mississippi and the 46 or so other states that dont have large amounts of illegal immigrants.

Who cleans the bathrooms
Mows the dishes
Works on the fields
ETC

Just my two cents

college kids

spunkmaster · 04-11-2006, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

-----
The Sons of dogs stole our land from our forefathers...now it's time to take our country back!

We are a majority, we have NOTHING TO LOSE, and the worlds ricchest country to gain!!!

Viva la RAZA!

Unidos estados de mex-americanos
------

Actually this is a fucking myth !

The Mexicans got their ass kicked by the Indians and no Mexicans wanted to move north in to CA, TX, NM and AZ because the savages were killing all of them and the Mexican Gov't didn't want to send their army north to deal with them.

Mexico never, ever controlled any part of the US except south Texas and they were spread very thin and the Alamo was their only victory until they got their ass kicked by Sam Houston when the US got serious.

It wasn't until the US sent in the US Calvary (army) to take care of the Indians that Mexicans started going north.

Ask any legal Mexican if they agree with illegals getting legal status and they will say no fucking way because they are taking their jobs too unless their parents are still illegal.

Manowar · 04-11-2006, 03:00 AM

damn mexi's

David! · 04-11-2006, 03:14 AM

How to solve the illegal immigration problem in 5 (almost impossible) steps

1-Secure border to greatly limit the number of illegals entering each day (Although if we can't stop some crazy mofo to enter the White House garden, it might be difficult to do it on a large scale)

2-Go after the employers who do not respect the laws and hire people without checking their status (Pretty much impossible since, all industrial lobbies have the Democrats and Republicans in their pocket, and no President has had the balls to take that step)

3-Make it easier for the hundred of thousands of international students who graduate each year to work and stay in the US (Big companies are complaining they do not have enough skilled labor, plus why give those people an education that will not be used here? Beside the fact off course that international students usually pay the out of State tuition fees)

4-Legalize the current illegals, but only after the border is secured. No way you can deport 11 to 20 millions people, plus there are not enough probation officers, not enough DCF workers, so how are we going to go after all of these people if they are not regularized?

5-Force anyone on welfare who is of abled body to get a job, force anyone who lives in HUD to get a job. (A basically impossible steps to take unless one is ready to face the fury of the general public) however this step would put around 10 million people on the job market for the supposedly low paying jobs that only Mexicans seem to be willing to take.

The illegal immigration debate is just like the high gasoline price or the health care or the social security debate, everyone knows it needs to be fixed but no one has the balls to do anything about it. Furthermore, there are so many special interest groups involved that it has become a total black hole.

$5 submissions · 04-11-2006, 04:02 AM

Another alternative would be to substitute capital for labor. This usually takes the form of better machines to supplant human labor but it can also mean bioengineering crops or dramatically reorganize certain labor-intensive local tasks that cannot be outsourced. If America can produce the Taylor, Lean, and Six Sigma systems, I'm sure it can produce the system needed for this challenge.

What do you guys think about this line of analysis?

minusonebit · 04-11-2006, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PussyMan

4-Legalize the current illegals, but only after the border is secured. No way you can deport 11 to 20 millions people, plus there are not enough probation officers, not enough DCF workers, so how are we going to go after all of these people if they are not regularized.

I agree with every step except this one. We can depot 11 to 20 million people. We have a police force, a national guard and an army for this. And in the absence of sufficent resources in this area, there are plenty American citizens who would volunteer for the task.

We need to change the law to streamline the deportation process and remove delay tactics that can be used by the illegals and thier lawyers that we'll have to pay for too. Instead of giving each one its own indvidual hearing and the ability to appeal it to death, we need to provide them a single hearing and if they dont like that decision, they can appeal to a larger 3 judge panel. The decision of the panel needs to be final and binding. We also need to provide for a single or few detainment camp(s) to house the people awaiting deportation and/or trial.

If we do this right, we could get rid of at least 25,000 of these people a month. It would take a long time but it would be an effort worth undertaking. The speed or lackthereof with which this process was accomplished would depend entirely on how many judges were allocated to the task.

Screaming · 04-11-2006, 07:48 AM

We are building welfare.

escorpio · 04-11-2006, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minusonebit

We can depot 11 to 20 million people. We have a police force, a national guard and an army for this. And in the absence of sufficent resources in this area, there are plenty American citizens who would volunteer for the task.

We also need to provide for a single or few detainment camp(s) to house the people awaiting deportation and/or trial.

If we do this right, we could get rid of at least 25,000 of these people a month.

"I like the way you think!"

sperbonzo · 04-11-2006, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

"I like the way you think!"

I love how people think that anyone from the US that wants to enforce border and entry laws is a "Nazi"
EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HAS LAWS REGARDING IMMIGRATION, AND THEY ALL DEPORT PEOPLE THAT BREAK THEM.
I guess, according to you, EVERY country is a nazi country, huh?

So ridiculous.

AmigoPorn · 04-11-2006, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

I love how people think that anyone from the US that wants to enforce border and entry laws is a "Nazi"
EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HAS LAWS REGARDING IMMIGRATION, AND THEY ALL DEPORT PEOPLE THAT BREAK THEM.
I guess, according to you, EVERY country is a nazi country, huh?

So ridiculous.

Let's call things by their right names.
RACISM is what it's all about.

After Shock Media · 04-11-2006, 09:40 AM

By the time the issue is solved Mexico will have ran out of Mexicans anyways.

As Sly mentioned, there are numerous businesses that have help wanted signs up. Also tons that are in the paper looking for employee's, and no they are not in some conspiracy to get applications and just hire illegals from what they get. People (Americans) just do not seem to want these jobs much or they would actually apply and get them.

As I stated in other arguments about this issue, my fiance owns and runs a landscaping company that only uses American labor. She has a damn hard time finding employees who will do the work. Despite that she is paying a very high wage plus benefits. Then the turn over she has is fairly high, many of the people she gets just do not want to work and or are to lazy to keep up and she has to fire them or they quit.

Keeping what I said in mind how many Americans desire to work at minimum wage? I would presume even a lot less. Now I would not fault many companies that are paying minimum wage for hiring anyone who will do the damn work, illegal or not. So maybe if people really have an issue with this they can kick congress in the ass and have them raise minimum wage.

sperbonzo · 04-11-2006, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmigoPorn

Let's call things by their right names.
RACISM is what it's all about.

Really?? Do you know what MEXICO'S laws are regarding illegal alliens in their country? Do you know what their laws are regarding even the people that are there legally?

I guess that Mexico, the US and every other country on the planet is racist, according to your logic.

(and by the way, the racism must extend in all directions, because I have had European and Australian friends deported from the US for overstaying their VISAs.... how do you figure THAT?)

AmigoPorn · 04-11-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Really?? Do you know what MEXICO'S laws are regarding illegal alliens in their country? Do you know what their laws are regarding even the people that are there legally?

I guess that Mexico, the US and every other country on the planet is racist, according to your logic.

(and by the way, the racism must extend in all directions, because I have had European and Australian friends deported from the US for overstaying their VISAs.... how do you figure THAT?)

Why do you feel ashamed of being called what you really are? You're a fucking racist, that's what you are.

DaddyHalbucks · 04-11-2006, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

For those arguing that we cant deport illegal immigrants because they take the jobs that no one else wants, here is a question for you:

Who cuts the lawns in states like Alabama, Ohio, Mississippi and the 46 or so other states that dont have large amounts of illegal immigrants.

Who cleans the bathrooms
Mows the dishes
Works on the fields
ETC

Just my two cents

That's not really the issue.

The big issue is: who pays for education, welfare, and health care benefits for illegal aliens and their families?

AmigoPorn · 04-11-2006, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

That's not really the issue.

The big issue is: who pays for education, welfare, and health care benefits for illegal aliens and their families?

They do. They contribute a great deal to the US economy.

sperbonzo · 04-11-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmigoPorn

Why do you feel ashamed of being called what you really are? You're a fucking racist, that's what you are.

You are an idiot and a complete moron. Can you read what I'm writing you imbecile? You don't know me, and you don't know anything about me.

In fact, this must be a joke, or just intended to wind me up. No one could be so stupid as to not be able to understand my posts.

If it's a joke, it's in poor taste, and if you are trying to wind me up....

escorpio · 04-11-2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

I love how people think that anyone from the US that wants to enforce border and entry laws is a "Nazi"

Not everyone, just nationalistic people who talk about having the military round people up and put them in camps.

Linguist · 04-11-2006, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

Not everyone, just nationalistic people who talk about having the military round people up and put them in camps.

If the illegals don't like being forced out of a country, or put into temporary detention centres to speed up their deportation, they should not have come to the country to begin with.
You don't see criminals complain about being put to jail. Illegals are criminals who are committing a fraud against the country that they have illegally come to. That country has every right to put them in jail and deport them.

escorpio · 04-11-2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linguist

If the illegals don't like being forced out of a country, or put into temporary detention centres to speed up their deportation, they should not have come to the country to begin with.
You don't see criminals complain about being put to jail. Illegals are criminals who are committing a fraud against the country that they have illegally come to. That country has every right to put them in jail and deport them.

Yeah, escaping poverty is a serious crime and it's time we got tough with these people.

Linguist · 04-11-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

Yeah, escaping poverty is a serious crime and it's time we got tough with these people.

Then they should follow legal procedures for applying for immigration.

Look, they are breaking a law. Do you justify a hungry homeless person robbing a convenience store? He was hungry, so he has every right to rob it, right?

psili · 04-11-2006, 10:36 AM

You're all fucking retarded.

All non-Native American's should be deported.

[/sarcasm]

Lane · 04-11-2006, 10:36 AM

A lot of flawed arguments here.

The solution is neither to make ALL illegal immigrants legal, nor kicking them all out. No extreme measure is the proper way to go about this.

There IS a need for those workers. But the supply has probably just about reached or surpassed the demand. This is why the government is basically forced to deal with this now, and they have not done so before.

Securing the borders is more of an anti-terrorism issue than it is about immigration.

USA simply cannot afford deporting millions of people. It would literally mean causing many deaths and destroying families. Still, no matter what, some people will get kicked out, that's a given.

There will have to be a legal path for cheap workers to become legal. This path currently does not exist. It is simply missing from the immigration laws.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with immigrants taking jobs in the US. The problem is, it costs less to hire an illegal immigrant than it does to hire an American. At the end, the goal is to force all employers to pay the standard minimum wage or more for the immigrants, PLUS certain fees. This will work itself out, as it will cost less for the employer to hire a minimum wage american worker than it does to hire a minimum wage immigrant.

The government simply needs to figure out the best way to achive this goal. They know it for a fact, it will involve a process that will take years.

For instance I came to the US as an international student. After college I had to find a job to get my skilled-worker visa. But the catch was, I could not settle for a wage lower than industry averages, as the laws prohibited that. Plus, there were fees involved to get this visa. That means, I was NOT financially more desirable as an employee over an American.

The same thing will have to happen for non-skilled worker type of visas, which do not exist yet. This type of program will let American companies to hire minimum wage immigrants only when they have trouble finding and American worker to take the job instead.

Alex · 04-11-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

California has an unemployment rate of 5%. Kansas is 4.7%. Kentucky is 6.3%. Indiana is 5.1%. Illinois is 5%. Michigan is 6.6%! Oregon is 5.6%.

http://www.bls.gov/lau/

There is really no significant difference between states with and without high illegal populations. Damn, Michigan is lazy, damn illegal Canadian immigrants!

No, but they still have legal aliens and citizens doing the shit jobs in those states.

The reason for the high unemployment rate is due to large companies closing down and moving to Mexcio or other countries. That and those states dont have nearly the amount of business that we have here in California.

Lane · 04-11-2006, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linguist

Then they should follow legal procedures for applying for immigration.

Look, they are breaking a law. Do you justify a hungry homeless person robbing a convenience store? He was hungry, so he has every right to rob it, right?

Don't assume that they had the option. There is currently no legal way for a non-skilled worker to come to the US to get a job.

Theo · 04-11-2006, 10:41 AM

good post Lane

the only thing is that it's impossible for states to secure their borders.

psili · 04-11-2006, 10:41 AM

Nice post man.
Nice post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lane

A lot of flawed arguments here.

The solution is neither to make ALL illegal immigrants legal, nor kicking them all out. No extreme measure is the proper way to go about this.

There IS a need for those workers. But the supply has probably just about reached or surpassed the demand. This is why the government is basically forced to deal with this now, and they have not done so before.

Securing the borders is more of an anti-terrorism issue than it is about immigration.

USA simply cannot afford deporting millions of people. It would literally mean causing many deaths and destroying families. Still, no matter what, some people will get kicked out, that's a given.

There will have to be a legal path for cheap workers to become legal. This path currently does not exist. It is simply missing from the immigration laws.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with immigrants taking jobs in the US. The problem is, it costs less to hire an illegal immigrant than it does to hire an American. At the end, the goal is to force all employers to pay the standard minimum wage or more for the immigrants, PLUS certain fees. This will work itself out, as it will cost less for the employer to hire a minimum wage american worker than it does to hire a minimum wage immigrant.

The government simply needs to figure out the best way to achive this goal. They know it for a fact, it will involve a process that will take years.

For instance I came to the US as an international student. After college I had to find a job to get my skilled-worker visa. But the catch was, I could not settle for a wage lower than industry averages, as the laws prohibited that. Plus, there were fees involved to get this visa. That means, I was NOT financially more desirable as an employee over an American.

The same thing will have to happen for non-skilled worker type of visas, which do not exist yet. This type of program will let American companies to hire minimum wage immigrants only when they have trouble finding and American worker to take the job instead.

escorpio · 04-11-2006, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linguist

Then they should follow legal procedures for applying for immigration.

Look, they are breaking a law. Do you justify a hungry homeless person robbing a convenience store? He was hungry, so he has every right to rob it, right?

Legal resident and work permits should be easier to obtain.
Your attempt an analogy is ridiculous. You compare holding a gun on a 7-11 clerk to illegally entering a rich country and walking through 20+ miles of desert to find work?

Alex · 04-11-2006, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Another alternative would be to substitute capital for labor. This usually takes the form of better machines to supplant human labor but it can also mean bioengineering crops or dramatically reorganize certain labor-intensive local tasks that cannot be outsourced. If America can produce the Taylor, Lean, and Six Sigma systems, I'm sure it can produce the system needed for this challenge.

What do you guys think about this line of analysis?

Sounds great but here is another idea. Yes i agree there are very few people who want to pick our fruits at $2.50 an hour with high risk of death.

I am open to seasonal worker visa's.

Let people from our bordeing countries apply for a visa to work, apply for a job at one of these ranches. Then when they are accpeted they can leagally cross the border. Work at thier job for minimum wage, pay legal taxes, have the employer provide some sort of medical, so long as its paid for by him and not the tax players.

When thier visa is over (3-4 months) they go back to thier country untill next year.

Win-Win in my opinion.

Alex · 04-11-2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmigoPorn

Let's call things by their right names.
RACISM is what it's all about.

I don't think hatred towards CRIMINALS is classified as racism.

You might want to ask your 5th grade teacher that tomorrow morning.

psili · 04-11-2006, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

Legal resident and work permits should be easier to obtain.
Your attempt an analogy is ridiculous. You compare holding a gun on a 7-11 clerk to illegally entering a rich country and walking through 20+ miles of desert to find work?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but why should "legal residency and work permits" be easier to acquire? Does anyone "deserve" to be granted citizenship to a country?

Linguist · 04-11-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lane

Don't assume that they had the option. There is currently no legal way for a non-skilled worker to come to the US to get a job.

So let's break the laws then? Great idea mate.

I'm not against immigration, heck I'm an immigrant myself with a dual citizenship, but I have something to bring into this country. My dad is a specialist with 2 university degrees and so is my mother. I'm almost done with my formal degree as well. We were poor in the country where we came from, but that's not a reason for becoming a criminal and trying to justify it. We did everything legally, albeit it took a long time.
You'd be surprised how many educated people want to make it to the US and can't do it, while the borders are swarming with unskilled people whose only excuse is "i'm poor, so fuck you im going to this country anyway, and if you don't agree with me then you're racist."

Alex · 04-11-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escorpio

Legal resident and work permits should be easier to obtain.
Your attempt an analogy is ridiculous. You compare holding a gun on a 7-11 clerk to illegally entering a rich country and walking through 20+ miles of desert to find work?

Then have 10+ kids and collect welfare and medical benifits for all of them at the expense of the white collar workers like my parents who put in 10 hours a day with out medical benifits just to know that when they turn 68 (another 20 years of working) they can retire with a shit pension because the Social Security is broke.

Luc · 04-11-2006, 10:50 AM

If you put together the population of all those hick states like Alabama, Ohio and others you get something half that of California + Illinois + New York.

I don't know about you, but I won't work at McDonalds for $5.50/hr - taxes and I won't pay $5 for a cup of coffee if they have to hire people at $10/hour and the prices sky rocket.

The only reason we can enjoy cheap food, cheap goods and cheap services is because there are mexicans and other minorities willing to break their fucking backs doing the shit work for next to nothing. Throw them out and you'll be paying through the roof for everything...

Theo · 04-11-2006, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

parents who put in 10 hours a day with out medical benifits just to know that when they turn 68 (another 20 years of working) they can retire with a shit pension because the Social Security is broke.

welcome to europe

04-10-2006, 10:42 PM	#1
Alex So Fucking Banned (YEA!!) Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 10,963	A Thought about the Immigration Issue. For those arguing that we cant deport illegal immigrants because they take the jobs that no one else wants, here is a question for you: Who cuts the lawns in states like Alabama, Ohio, Mississippi and the 46 or so other states that dont have large amounts of illegal immigrants. Who cleans the bathrooms Mows the dishes Works on the fields ETC Just my two cents __________________ Care about me? Who? Me! Who?

04-10-2006, 10:57 PM	#3
colpanic Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,007	I've made that point as well. I grew up in Pennsylvania, and we still had plenty of people working construction and doing housekeeping. It's a bullshit argument. I've had college educated friends get deported for not having a proper visa, why should some uneducated guy get in easier? __________________ I like ducks.

04-10-2006, 11:16 PM	#10
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,329	Hmm... interesting points. Although, I was out all weekend to various stores and restaurants. I would say about 85% of the stores had "help wanted" signs. Would you like me to go back and get the numbers so you guys can have your friends call up for an interview? Yes, most were shit jobs, but they WERE available paying jobs. Why aren't your broke and unemployed friends taking up those jobs if they're so desperate for work? __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc. Click here for more details.

04-10-2006, 11:19 PM	#11
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,329	Oh, and those other states with lower illegal immigration rates... they have unemployment rates too. So if illegals are taking up so many jobs Americans want, then why are areas with a smaller illegal population seeing the same unemployment rates? Why aren't those anxious Americans hopping up every morning to work since they don't have Mexicans to compete with? __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc. Click here for more details.

04-10-2006, 11:24 PM	#12
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,329	California has an unemployment rate of 5%. Kansas is 4.7%. Kentucky is 6.3%. Indiana is 5.1%. Illinois is 5%. Michigan is 6.6%! Oregon is 5.6%. http://www.bls.gov/lau/ There is really no significant difference between states with and without high illegal populations. Damn, Michigan is lazy, damn illegal Canadian immigrants! __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc. Click here for more details.

04-10-2006, 10:57 PM	#4
Matt 26z So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: ¤ª"˜¨๑۩۞۩๑¨˜"ª¤ Posts: 18,481	The illegals actually do not want those jobs. The reason why they are pushing for legalization is so they can persue better careers, which means more job competition for Americans. Then when they move up we'll need more Mexicans to fill the jobs the newly Mexican-American's now refuse to do, right? Their entire goal is to heavily populate areas of the US so they can get their fellow Mexicans elected into various levels of government. Then they will use that power for the greater good of Mexico. I saw this posted on a board today and thought it was disgusting... ----- The Sons of dogs stole our land from our forefathers...now it's time to take our country back! We are a majority, we have NOTHING TO LOSE, and the worlds ricchest country to gain!!! Viva la RAZA! Unidos estados de mex-americanos ------

04-10-2006, 10:59 PM	#5
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	They want to end illegals arrest a few ceo's whose companies hire them. It would be fixed faster then you can imagine lol

04-10-2006, 11:27 PM	#13
iWeb_Allan Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: manila, phils. Posts: 407	Personally, I think it's lack of nationalism. I was once a banker who got an offer from Chase Manhattan but I just scoffed at the idea. I didn't want other nationalities making profits out of what little knowledge and expertise I may have. So why the fuck I'm in this business? That's another story though... __________________ Allan Bello [email protected] ICQ: 191123278 800.934.4942 or +1.408.454.7716 Offshore Staff Leasing Services

04-10-2006, 11:29 PM	#14
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	dont people see illegal's are the gay marriage for 2006 . Once again the sheep will vote against their own interests. lol

04-10-2006, 11:30 PM	#15
minusonebit So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: [email protected] Posts: 7,391	Alot of places are always "taking applications" and have help wanted signs up. Dosent mean they are hiring anyone, or it sometimes means they are taking apps and sifting through the ones they think they can get to work for low wages and snag those employees up. Some companies always have a help wanted sign up and an ad in the paper from the day they open the doors to the day they shut them.

04-11-2006, 03:00 AM	#19
Manowar jellyfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 71,528	damn mexi's

04-11-2006, 03:14 AM	#20
David! By the wrath of Agamemnon Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Miami Posts: 6,501	How to solve the illegal immigration problem in 5 (almost impossible) steps 1-Secure border to greatly limit the number of illegals entering each day (Although if we can't stop some crazy mofo to enter the White House garden, it might be difficult to do it on a large scale) 2-Go after the employers who do not respect the laws and hire people without checking their status (Pretty much impossible since, all industrial lobbies have the Democrats and Republicans in their pocket, and no President has had the balls to take that step) 3-Make it easier for the hundred of thousands of international students who graduate each year to work and stay in the US (Big companies are complaining they do not have enough skilled labor, plus why give those people an education that will not be used here? Beside the fact off course that international students usually pay the out of State tuition fees) 4-Legalize the current illegals, but only after the border is secured. No way you can deport 11 to 20 millions people, plus there are not enough probation officers, not enough DCF workers, so how are we going to go after all of these people if they are not regularized? 5-Force anyone on welfare who is of abled body to get a job, force anyone who lives in HUD to get a job. (A basically impossible steps to take unless one is ready to face the fury of the general public) however this step would put around 10 million people on the job market for the supposedly low paying jobs that only Mexicans seem to be willing to take. The illegal immigration debate is just like the high gasoline price or the health care or the social security debate, everyone knows it needs to be fixed but no one has the balls to do anything about it. Furthermore, there are so many special interest groups involved that it has become a total black hole. __________________ .

04-11-2006, 04:02 AM	#21
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	Another alternative would be to substitute capital for labor. This usually takes the form of better machines to supplant human labor but it can also mean bioengineering crops or dramatically reorganize certain labor-intensive local tasks that cannot be outsourced. If America can produce the Taylor, Lean, and Six Sigma systems, I'm sure it can produce the system needed for this challenge. What do you guys think about this line of analysis? __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

04-11-2006, 07:48 AM	#23
Screaming I can change this!!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 18,972	We are building welfare. __________________

04-11-2006, 09:40 AM	#27
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	By the time the issue is solved Mexico will have ran out of Mexicans anyways. As Sly mentioned, there are numerous businesses that have help wanted signs up. Also tons that are in the paper looking for employee's, and no they are not in some conspiracy to get applications and just hire illegals from what they get. People (Americans) just do not seem to want these jobs much or they would actually apply and get them. As I stated in other arguments about this issue, my fiance owns and runs a landscaping company that only uses American labor. She has a damn hard time finding employees who will do the work. Despite that she is paying a very high wage plus benefits. Then the turn over she has is fairly high, many of the people she gets just do not want to work and or are to lazy to keep up and she has to fire them or they quit. Keeping what I said in mind how many Americans desire to work at minimum wage? I would presume even a lot less. Now I would not fault many companies that are paying minimum wage for hiring anyone who will do the damn work, illegal or not. So maybe if people really have an issue with this they can kick congress in the ass and have them raise minimum wage. __________________ [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

04-11-2006, 10:36 AM	#37
psili Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 5,526	You're all fucking retarded. All non-Native American's should be deported. [/sarcasm] __________________ Your post count means nothing.

04-11-2006, 10:36 AM	#38
Lane Will code for food... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Buckeye, AZ Posts: 8,496	A lot of flawed arguments here. The solution is neither to make ALL illegal immigrants legal, nor kicking them all out. No extreme measure is the proper way to go about this. There IS a need for those workers. But the supply has probably just about reached or surpassed the demand. This is why the government is basically forced to deal with this now, and they have not done so before. Securing the borders is more of an anti-terrorism issue than it is about immigration. USA simply cannot afford deporting millions of people. It would literally mean causing many deaths and destroying families. Still, no matter what, some people will get kicked out, that's a given. There will have to be a legal path for cheap workers to become legal. This path currently does not exist. It is simply missing from the immigration laws. There is absolutely nothing wrong with immigrants taking jobs in the US. The problem is, it costs less to hire an illegal immigrant than it does to hire an American. At the end, the goal is to force all employers to pay the standard minimum wage or more for the immigrants, PLUS certain fees. This will work itself out, as it will cost less for the employer to hire a minimum wage american worker than it does to hire a minimum wage immigrant. The government simply needs to figure out the best way to achive this goal. They know it for a fact, it will involve a process that will take years. For instance I came to the US as an international student. After college I had to find a job to get my skilled-worker visa. But the catch was, I could not settle for a wage lower than industry averages, as the laws prohibited that. Plus, there were fees involved to get this visa. That means, I was NOT financially more desirable as an employee over an American. The same thing will have to happen for non-skilled worker type of visas, which do not exist yet. This type of program will let American companies to hire minimum wage immigrants only when they have trouble finding and American worker to take the job instead. __________________

04-11-2006, 10:41 AM	#41
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	good post Lane the only thing is that it's impossible for states to secure their borders.

04-11-2006, 10:50 AM	#49
Luc Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 1,130	If you put together the population of all those hick states like Alabama, Ohio and others you get something half that of California + Illinois + New York. I don't know about you, but I won't work at McDonalds for $5.50/hr - taxes and I won't pay $5 for a cup of coffee if they have to hire people at $10/hour and the prices sky rocket. The only reason we can enjoy cheap food, cheap goods and cheap services is because there are mexicans and other minorities willing to break their fucking backs doing the shit work for next to nothing. Throw them out and you'll be paying through the roof for everything... __________________ » Looking for Type-in domais? Page Rank domains? Alexa domains? Popular domains? » Domain Research Tool can scan hundreds of thousands of domains to find whatever you're looking for. » Auto-appraise domains and send automated domain offers in bulk with just one click. » Full support for Proxy Servers and International Overture. Try it Free.