50.........

at your growth rate, I fear this might take a while :P

50 : )

And get out of my thread with all your great supporters ... Damn it! We have IYP, we're supporters.

Fine, stay in the thread.

And Shap, have I got a deal for you ... I have come up with a solution for your problem!

Edit: Damn that woj!

oh well my site is rocking with 1:200 ;)

speaking of which, I am going to golf town in a few hours to pick up my ping hybrid I tried the other day, loved that thing! I might just skip the Fairway #3 Wood I am missing in my ping set and just get a 19 and 21 degree hybrid, these things are HOT!

might also finish my set with a new ping putter, although I am still debating which hehe

Oh really Mr. Speed?!? :winkwink:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=586836

I haven't played since we moved. Just don't have the time now that the course is a 10 minute drive a way rather than 5... it sux :/

But I'm up for woopin ya up any day :)

Interesting... email me or wait until we meet in Phoenix to spring it on me :thumbsup

What can I say? 1:200 IS slow for us! lol

I hope it isn't dying!
 

I am just starting out in this business and I sure hope it isn't dying. We put a lot of time and research into developing our site. We plan to do a great deal of out of the box marketing and not being successful isn't even an option!! I've tried to surround myself with some of the best minds in this business for guidance. I look forward to working with many of you so we can succeed together!

Any business that is not growing is dying...

I find it very interesting that in this thread alone, I count 4 people I used to trade traffic with back in the days when CJ's were the traffic kings, and made ALOT of money circa 1999/2000.

That was the way to teach the surfer to pay for his/her porn. But no, the bleeding hearts in this business said it was wrong doing that, and we should give them free porn, and "sell" them what they want.

Where are those idiots now? Seems the CJ'ers are still around.

LOL

The CJ's now moved into traffic trading since they couldn't get a conversion.


:1orglaugh

Amen ;)

Hey Anthony I didn't know you were with 365billing. Nice. I'm meeting with Mark in Phx. Will you be in Phx?

The industry has to evolve.

That's funny i see Me, Doc and Anthony here and we have done not too bad for ourselves, what do you guys think? :winkwink:

I was teasin, hence the 'LOL face'

:winkwink:

Very well said.

Whoops, Damn Caffeine high :upsidedow

AND you guys are putting money into high quality custom pics/vids. Most of the other program owners are not doing this. Perhaps they will learn a thing or 2 from your success and actually pay a little more money for content that has a production quality which is higher than a 5 year old kids birthday party video.

Of course amateur sites SHOULD look amateur but "amateur" does not have to translate to "shitty".

It's all good mate. No worries.
:thumbsup

Sorry Noob, CJ's created Traffic trading, way before you came on the scene. :) Why do you think they were called Circle Jerks?

I converted 1:2500 with ARS back then with that shitty traffic. I could send them 50 to 100k a day. I'm sure you can do the math. I could care less about conversions, all I cared about was how much money I was making. Conversions are smoke and mirrors, you should know your traffic, and what your traffic is capable of, and send to whatever program accordingly.

Rimmer and his UCJ 1.0 in perl started a revolution back in 2000, what was it before Scorpion? The script everyone had?

Ahhh, the mammories...

I understand where Kristin is coming from but I don't think she used the right words to express her dismay with the current state of our industry.

Is the automobile industry dying?
Nope, far from it, it's growing every year both in the industrialized and the emerging nations.
However if you work for Ford or GM (or own stock in them) it probably FEELS like the automobile industry is dying because a big chunk of your profits are going to other people who weren't even in the industry back in your hey day. Also now you have to fight hard for every single customer and give them an amazing deal in order to get their business, rather than saying "here's the car you want it or not?"
Ford and GM think the business is dying but Toyota and Honda think the business is booming.

If you started in this business back when it was super easy to make a buck (think 1998 and before) then you probably think it's shit now.
If you started in this business 2 years ago and you're still around, then you probably think this business is great.
It's all a matter of perspective (and whether your business model is that of GM or of Toyota)

I think the better question is "What have people done to make millions in other industries that were experiencing a similar business cycle?"
And then do that!

Shap,

Still running the mainstream program, but running new accounts with 365, with Mark and the boys. I won't be in Phoenix this year, but definately will see you in our hometown in FLA! :)

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Yeah if the better part of a decade in the business is a noob, you've got it spot on mate. :thumbsup

You might want to read before posting since I said I was kidding.

:disgust

Lenny,

Haven't seen you posting much, good to see you doing so again!

As for the analogy, autombiles in this day and age, is a necisssity...

Porn is not.

Plus, how many car manufacturers are selling cars, by giving them away?

your traffic might be 1:1000, not everyones is the same.

Getting pissy because what you said was construed differently than what you meant by more than one person points the blame to...

You.

May I suggest brushing up on your communication skills, your current skillset makes you out to be a wanker.

Here's few advices:

- Don't lose focus on learning new things and researching all aspects of the industry (any kind of) you are working.

- Don't take everything you read as given till you try them yourself.

- Don't get lazy. Working smart alone is not enough.

- Don't drink and drive heh

This industry is only dying if you can't figure out more ways to innovate, properly filter your traffic, and generate traffic.

There is more traffic available now than ever. There are more promo tools at your disposal now than ever.

Sure ratios are lower, but I can honestly say that I rarely see ratios worse than 1:400... And it's not because I'm lucky. If I went much lower, I'd just need to find new ways to increase my traffic.

The only one getting pissy here's you chief.

I made the joke. Explained it to shap in regard to the face. It's all good.

2-3 posts later after this, you still post in regards to it? Sounds like you need to brush up on yor reading skills.

:pimp

Retired. Their ships have sailed. :D

And the ships remaining today are pulling up increasingly empty nets because they've dumped overboard all their bait, rotting on the seabed, the fish are bloated. And the guys that are benefiting from this free-for-all are the ones who are piping this all back up such as TheHun.

Let's get serious for a few moments and take a look at TheHun. I've said this before, "The brand is everything", and TheHun has gained a large enough mindshare over the early years to whitenoise-out any outsiders. Trying to grab a large enough piece of his market and swing the tide into something that fuels itself profitable isn't going to be happening. Because today's noobies are simply priced out from that competition. There is a reason why TheHun can look like a piece of shit and still remain top dog.

There is a reason for most everything :winkwink:

Sherm,

I'd like to make a point here real quick about site content...

Shap has awesome content...

Kristin and Doc do too...

Things you can't find anywhere else.

Duke Dollars is another program that does the same thing.

I truly believe, and this is a rapid departure from my thinking 99/2000, that traffic is still King, but CONTENT is now just as important!

If you don't have something that grabs a surfer's attention by the balls, and holds them to your site for that CC, then you are going to see 1:5000 ratios as normal on middlin traffic.

Call me crazy, but I've been watching the trends, and from the little bit I've been working myself.

New products make a buzz and ppl buy.

It's being innovative and giving them the same feeling to break out the CC. Look at Bang Bros, as the pinnacle of this trend.

How about, I didn't see your post, due to me replying to your original post?

You came out a hahahaha, Shap noticed, I noticed.

Give it a rest, and let it go. No one cares anymore except you.

It's not a perfect analogy, but there will probably never be a perfect one.

Here's the thing.....

Was it easier to sell porn in 1998? Hell yeah it was. There were ALOT fewer people in this business back then competing for signups.
Sometimes you need to think outside of the box. Digging for gold isn't always the best way to make a fortune during a gold rush.

The glut of adult webmasters has made it harder to sell porn, but has created entirely new markets.
Think of the money being made by people like NATS, MPA, Stats Remote, Hosting Companies, Offshore outsourcing companies, etc etc etc. (Hell, look at GFY)
These people made the webmaster their customer instead of the porn consumer and in essence turned lemons into lemonade.
None of these types of companies (with the exception of hosting) could have made it back in 1998, but they're thriving now while alot of the people selling porn are struggling.

The only constant is change (cliche I know)
If you want to make REAL money you can't just copy what everyone else is doing. Create your own niche, start a new market, be the only one doing something and have a monopoly. By the time everyone catches up to you and copies what you're doing, you'll be ready to cash out anyways.

Post of the day.

Very good thread. Another factor to keep in mind--regulatory and technical issues that may shrink the traffic pool even further.

Sex will never die and neiter will the internet.:2 cents:

Content definitly plays a huge part. That's why the amazing sites have amazing numbers... They're not common.

Even in the freesite game, that's what counts. Why is it that niche sites see better ratios? :)

I have sites that do 3k a day (nothing but hard links and SE) that probably make more than a lot of 50-100k a day skim tgp/mgp's... And that's because you focus on specific content and really market it.

Cheers and hope to see you in PHX!

It's those hot girls you got there ... See Taylor and the crew in a couple of days!

Oh yeah, and make sure you give me my "favor" :winkwink:

No disrespect to the industry, but the honest reality is the bulk of adult webmasters are not professionally trained and skilled businessmen, just surfers turned porners who think with a little luck on their TGP's they can be Hugh Hefner too one day.

I'm not saying it will completely die ... read the post before you.

It is shrinking ...

Technical issues, laws, regulations, competition, surfers getting smarter.

Most webmasters prefer to swear at each other and getting drunk at conventions instead of having decent meetings to discuss these type of problems and team up to protect their business.
Program owners are more bothered about the freeloaders eating and drinking on their costs than they are about the fact their content is offered for free on numerous boards or being shared on networks.
Making money in this industry is still more easy than making money in mainstream (yes it is) but yes, the golden years are over so John Doe setting up his tgp with 50% skim and 50 trades won't get rich anymore.
But still, this is a nice market, and porn will always sell so don't worry.

I don't think it is shrinking. I think it is growing. Yes, the pie is being split a lot more ways. Think back to the early days. How many programs then compared to now? How many making big bucks in the industry compared to now?

Ratios for some programs will not be as good as before, where ratios will be amazing for others. Like the ocean, there is an ebb and a flow to this business, power shifts amongst players sometimes. It won't die, won't come close to it.

That's true, you can see this even on these boards, spot a thread where they are giving away a free xbox, the thread gets hundreds of posts.
Even some adult programs (the small ones) are amateurs. I remember I got a mail from a certain webmaster program (won't name it) a little while ago after I asked them a question.

Instead of replying with 'Dear sir' or 'Dear affiliate' they started with 'Yo dude' :1orglaugh I haven't used their program since that mail, what if a check gets lost in the mail and they need to help me out.

Good post, alot of what you have said, you can see in the companies that are successful.

Serge posted back in the day using the "Gold Rush" analogy, that very few miners made millions.

It was the Bankers, the Hotel Keeper, the Restaurant Owner, the Supply Shop owner, it was those who catered to the 49er's.

What's true then is still true now.

Remember when the Visa fees were a big deal? I thought it was a hopeful sign.

If you want to open a bar, a liquor lic runs you roughly $100k. You don't open a bar unless you are serious. These days, people open full-out paysites at will.

You hit the nail on the head. If then entry fees were higher, you would weed out those that are not serious.

Excellent post, and true. I don't know how we always miss each other living in the same state, one day would love to just sit down and shoot the shit with you.

:)

The same can be said about every industry, though. Many entrepreneurs don't have formal training and experience before hanging their shingle and launching their small biz.

"Getting smarter" has nothing to do with surfers purchasing decisions. If anything surfers are becoming increasingly jaded. I mean who wouldn't be when you must deal with approximately 9,000+ pornsite names? Compound this with the thousands of gallery pages with retard domain variations. I mean, how many combinations of TeenFuckingAnalTeens.com can you barrage them with? I'd say fuck it all and jerkoff to the free shit too.

This is a far cry from a decade ago, when the total number of meaningful porn site choices numbered in just the triple digits.