50 woj where are you's?

Fuck. CCBill will have to get rid of Met-Art as my site doesn't comply and I have Met-art all over it.

I bet the rules change when it's a biggy like Met-art. I don't know about you guys but CCbills affiliate site is a crock of shit to use. Sooooooooooo slow, it must have been scripted by a moron and I have a monstrously fast download connection.

Lyn from Oz

PS. I don't have that site in my sig.

Here is the simple solution if you don't like their rules then get the fuck out and dont use em simple see how many other processors ya have to use not too many that have remained above water. So whether ya like it or you don't CCBill is in the drivers seat so to speak. Just quit bitchin LOL

I like some of that perverted shit.

I like my processor to be conservative, bravo ccbill. Also bdsm is not protected speech havent you been following the supreme court turning down a case involving bdsm.

exactly right :warning

Who's winging you dick. I am dropping Met-art as they aren't converting and pissing off CCBill.

Happy now.

Lyn from Oz

Lyn the message I posted wasnt meant for you so calm down :-) dont get the panties in a bunch ( it tends to chafe after awhile )

No thanks, Mark. I don't wish to discuss things with you privately. I see no reason why the answer can't be disclosed in a public forum for everyone's benefit...unless of course non-transparency is also CCBill policy.

I am genuinely glad that your current clients "feel comfortable" with your service. :)

As long as you feel comfortable being subjectively dictated to as to who and what you can and cannot link with - enjoy your business model.

Silent Knight:

It is unfortunate that your point has seemed to escape so many responders. While it is totally understandable that CCBill, or any other processor, would want to avoid legal issues, the subjectivity involved in judging whether the content on a particular site might violate these rules makes it impossible for a webmaster to know whether you are complying with them or not.

For example, no person to person watersports is pretty easy to understand, but "extreme pain" or "extreme beating" means what, exactly? While drawing blood with a flogging is clearly a violation of these rules, what else is extreme - is reddening the skin extreme, or does it require evidence of bruising, just as an example? As you stated, barring joining the site, how can you judge the nature of the content it has?

In practice, what it appears that CCBill is saying is that every single BDSM site you want to exchange links with needs to be cleared by them first before you link to it, or you risk losing your processing with them. I guess this is why they won't directly answer the questions you asked.

The reason is because VISA, other credit card companies and merchant banks are cracking down on it. Regardless of the 'processors' limits, TOS, or restrictions.

One of my billing companies was hit by the same shit last year. Some of the sites they processed for has crushing, or some shit like that and were hit by VISA/NOVA and fined $25,000. C4S was hit by the same type of shit. Although I think it was PETA that had reported them.

Regardless, CCBill or any processor for that matter still has to deal with VISA/merchant bank restrictions on top of their own.

:disgust

Everyone has opinions as to what is morally acceptable, about freedom of speech and the like. But such opinions are totally irrelevant within a business context. In that context, CCBill creating rules is no different than a paper supplier deciding to sell only blue paper.

It is however relevant that such subjective rules, rules which are likely to evolve in application while remaining unchanged in their wording, put every single program that processes through CCB in the position that at any time it may no longer be able to accept payments.

Such vulnerability means at the very least that no-one should process solely through CCB. It is always extremely poor business to depend on any single company or individual for a key function and that is compounded in this instance because, short of not dealing with anyone except surfers, it is practically impossible to have clean hands.

It isn't just that the nature of the Internet is such that sites are linked to other sites, so that whether an unacceptable link is one hop away or ten, we all have unacceptable links if we have any links at all. The biggest problem is that the 'Net is dynamic, constantly changing and much of it is automated. Thus my links might be totally clean this morning, but by afternoon an unacceptable site may be only a couple of hops away. There is no practical way to ensure that never happens.

One would hope that CCB recognize this reality and work with their clients to resolve issues in this area. After all, it is simple enough to ask someone to remove offending links and check for compliance. But it is dangerous to assume that they will never act peremptorily.

In the wider context, we need to hope that more workable payment solutions will appear so that, like someone buying paper, we have a broader choice of suppliers. But what is under our own control is that we need to wake up to the fact that we are in business and that there is no room for cowboys. It is all very well to come over all self-righteous about issues like this, but there are thousands and thousands of sites which push boundaries far more liberal than CCB's. And they are all hooked into the mainstream because someone turns a blind eye to the future for the sake of an extra signup or a little extra traffic today.

Always amazes me how a thread such as this brings out the smug gits who are happily sitting in the 'VISA loves me and my sites so fuck you jack' and seem incapable of dealing with a valid query regarding linkage to sites and responsibility of the webmaster for said links and how it may impact on their business.

So to all the 'quit bitchin' posts - contribute something useful or fuck off to another thread :321GFY

I know of two BDSM sites that featured whipping that have lost their CCbill processing. In both cases, the most extreme content *I* saw on those sites featured vivid welts, but no blood. Oddly, there are lots of spanking and caning sites with welts just as vivid, for whom processing appears to be no problem. The loss of billing appears to be tied to the "whipping" keyword, rather than to the actual content.

In my BDSM fetish niches, I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that a site billing with CCbill is not worth promoting, because CCbill can't be trusted to continue billing even for sites it initially approved.

As for all you smug bastards, you do realize that you're next, right? The powers that be (not CCbill, but the folks to whose tune CCbill is dancing) hate *your* porn just as much as they hate fetish porn. But there are a few more of you than there are of us, so they started with us. Classic divide and conquer tactics.

Old Ben said it best: "We must all hang together, or we shall most assuredly hang separately." I'll never understand how anybody in the porn business could fail to understand that.

good for them =]

CCbill may be going a little over the top and it will require a lot of work on webmasters parts to ensure that their sites comply. But i would rather we as an industry police ourselves than have the government set up some sort of policing system for us ?

There are some big issues out there such as the .XXX TLD which is about to explode very soon....

maybe because of this??

http://www.american-cannibal.com/trailer.html

Hi, SK, you make some salient points, so I checked out your sites that you link to, and have no problem with any of them from what I can see. But I am curious; why do you use ticketsclub instead of a paid verotel account? Are the conversions the same with this free account on ticketsclub as they are on their paid version? If so, maybe other webmasters who specialize in BDSM should consider this option instead of CCBill.

It was our webhosting company that made the decision to go with the TicketsClub option instead of the Verotel lite/pro accounts. I think the reasoning was primarily the setup and recurring fees.

I couldn't tell you a comparison between Ticketsclub and the paid version since we don't go with both obviously.

Very well said...excellent points. :thumbsup :thumbsup

How can you work with someone that has made menstruation illegal?

I wonder if Ticketsclub converts better than CCBill does as I can tell you that lately CCBill's conversion ratios have been in the shitter. All you have to do is read the boards to realize this. Do you feel Ticketsclub converts? If so, as I stated previous, perhaps you are doing the correct thing by being with a more liberal biller and, to top it off, using Ticketsclub is free. Its an arm of Verotel and Verotel has a good reputation of paying its webmasters, too.

I suspect these are mostly people who are happy with the status quo because they've never been directly affected by censorship regulations handed to them.

The erosion of 'acceptable content' will continue until it affects everyone. This is not a sky is falling sentiment - just fact...based on current trends.

How long before these same people start posting similiar threads in the future complaining about having to rip down links or content because someone else told them to?

I fear the days of a wide open internet are numbered. This isn't to say CCBill is the cause, of course. But they seem to be symptomatic of the problem for those of us who aren't happy towing the corporate policy or subscribing to someone else's subjective view of how things should be.

Bingo!

A links page, any links page, is merely one link in a huge chain that encompasses the entire web. The same applies to a TGP link.

It's as simple as that.

Therefore the only sites that are in full compliance with these rules are sites that none of us have ever heard of because they are sites with zero traffic.

Yeah, they seem to convert about the same as former processors we've had in the past. We've been quite pleased with their performance so far...and as you say they seem to have a good reputation going for them.

I should point out - this thread wasn't intended solely to bash CCBill or denegrate their value as a processor. I'm sure they do a very good job for some of their clients who closely observe their TOS and abide by all their regulations.

But rather, I posted mainly to open a discussion about it all and give a heads-up to those of you (like us) who aren't able to constantly monitor 24/7 the content of every link you currently have on your sites.

I think the picture will be much clearer after the Phoenix Forum : )

I've looked at that concept before, ticketsclub, and if you study the Verotel Pro option, you don't seem to be getting all that much for the price you pay, imo.

Paying $1500 up front and $30 a month in fees for Verotel Pro to still be charged 14% on a transaction, when TicketsClub charges the same and is free, is slightly less than appealing. Verotel also charges $1250 to integrate to their API for doing PPV, while Paycom allows it for free and CCBill lets its customers use their token system for free. Verotel is great for basic membership processing, but their advanced options are not very appealing as of right now.

they are such hypocrits
 

so how come ccbill still processes for sites like "Blood Bitches"? Do they just pick and choose who they want to ban?

wow, that can't be real, is it?

http://www.mukiskitchen.com/htcag165.jpg

Some of my girls have shot with these guys. Apparently their day jobs are as food photographers and the stuff they use for these shoots smells really good.

play by the rules and you should be fine:)

yeah rock on ccbill

doug is a great guy from there

great at airport pickups in the ccbill limo bus :thumbsup

Interesting. Almost all of the goth sites are CCBill sites. I bet you they're not all in compliance with this. The vampire fetish is all over the big movie sites especially.

What hope has this industry got when some people will be your friend for live just because you gave them a lift from the airport. :disgust

This would make AEBN off-limits for example wouldn't it? HotMovies.com, etc.. any of the video sales sites too that sell the vampire / goth dvds?

Yeah seems so indeed.

I have read this whole thread and find it ABSOLUTELY amazing as how many porn guys here are saying in essence: "My porn is good, so let the Ayatollahs at CCBill ban the bad porn". There is NO selection or judgment at CCBill just some computer (or some Mullah) looking at the stuff. The ONLY sane comment here is from someone who said that CCBill would not process most Hollywood movies...That is quite correct. Of course they are scared by the attacks from your Congress and they are NO Hollywood... BUT wait they ( the US lawmakers) are coming for you soon too... and there will not be anybody left to defend you!!

So your sites got turned down?.. I thought you said you READ the thread?...

Sebastian

I applaud CCBill for their efforts!

anyone from ccbill going to answer this? Do the rules apply to all?


Also do you get a warning and a chance to remove your link from sites that violate the tos? i mean some sites may have hundreds of links to other sites, how would one be expected to know that a site 2 or 3 links away is now violating? a warning and a chance to fix is essential.

yes

we work with our clients as much as we can, however, there are things that we absolutely will not process for. So the answer is that it depends on the situation

Processors getting shut down for content issues has not been uncommon in this industries history. If you are in this business for the long-term, you don?t want to go with a processor that takes risks with their merchant account.

whats the big deal with bodily functions ie urinating and menstration? Med students are forced to see much worse.

http://www.imagefilez.com/out.php/i22448_052358H1.jpghttp://www.imagefilez.com/out.php/i22447_051430H1.jpghttp://www.imagefilez.com/out.php/i22446_055474H1.jpg

I assume my local cinema will not accept Visa for these films?

Or allow me to charge for my newspaper that has their paid ads.

That is the one that stood out for me too. I hope my membership doesn't lapse now.

Have you been eating your g/f again? :1orglaugh

Lighten up ....:2 cents:

of which they are entitled to.

Agreed.

Looks like a clever move on CCbill's part :thumbsup