NOT

The site is down for me.

this all is getting too close to marasm... i own www.Fireball.ru so what do you really think that Fireball.de has more rights on this domain than me? Maybe Deep Purple has more rights on this domain (they have album named Fireball if im correct).. ???
:1orglaugh

Yup, I think it bad to image src someone because it might be fucking over 100 innocent people right now.
Perhaps the host will sue the hun?
I can't see it not being illegal in any country.

I'M THE MAN!

Criminals dont sue people... duh...

Ok, so you win the DoS case, but whats this about you stealing copyrighted material...

uh....

Fuck some people on here have no clue at all. The RU site was not just stealing a name for traffic but was stealing content too. How that compares to the situation above is totally beyond me unless of course you're stealing the content too. Come to think of it you own an ru site so the chances are......

most countries dont have any internet laws whatsoever

Bullshit!
why is .net .ru .whatever even sold then?
what if I register "hello-hello.net" then 2 weeks later someone registers "hello-hello.com" - does the .com overpower the .net or whatever?

Wrong.

If the name is trademarked and someone buys the same with a different extension and sets up a competing type site, it's a trademark violation.

If I buy thehun.org and setup a porn site I'm violating his trademark.

If I buy thehun.org and setup a site that sells battle axes, as far as I know, I'm not violating his trademark since I'm not in a competing market. I believe you also have to show that you have some claim to the name such as you've been in business for a while as The Hun's Battle Axe Shop.

thehun.ru as a porn site is a clear violation of the thehun trademark.

Just to continue from Fatpad's post - it should be obvious for anyone with even the tiniest bit of common sense. THE only reason to purchase thehun.anything and use it for porn is to try to steal some of the hun's traffic or pretend to be affiliated to it in some was to gain extra traffic. Go launch a drink product called for example 'Russian Pepsi Cola' and see how long it is before the lawyers are knocking on the door. How this concept can be in any way confusing always amazes the hell out of me.

Actually I was half right, not WRONG 100% :Kissmy
If someone owns a .com name, you can register the same name with .net, as long as your don't copy their site or idea.
thehun.ru is in violation.
However lets say someone buys the domain: "elephantlist.net" and turns it into a website listing different breeds of elephants. (A real non-adult site)
The owner of elephantlist.com would have a hard time if he wants to sue.

Modified: After I made this post I tried to type in "elephantlist.net" and sure enough someone owns it, and it directs to a listing of pornsites. Is that illegal?

Now you're right. ;)

Your comment before was made in the context of the thehun.ru situation. :winkwink:

DOS attacks are criminal cases also.

Only if you make sure all elephants on the site are over 18 and have signed model releases. If the elephants are under 18 you may get away with bikinis on them but probably safer not to. :winkwink:

I look at it like this and I'll explain it so everybody here can follow me...

If you were in school and a bully was punching you in the head everyday at lunch break do you think running and telling a teacher would really help you? No. The best the teacher could do for you is suspend the kid for a day or two. When he comes back he's pissed and you can't really expect to have a personal guard to save your ass at recess everyday. The only thing that would help you is to kick his butt.

The same theory applies to dealing with

A. Hackers, and other unruly computer assholes

B. Russians and people who live in lawless countries.

If you are the type of person that hopes to tell somebody and expect some decent help in this situation, that tells me which kid you were in the school example above. I hope you didn't get beat up too bad.

owner of elephantlist.com would have a hard time if he wants to sue

IF elephantlists paid for the TRADEMARK costs, yearly and they aren't cheap then Yes... They would have prior right to ALL domain extensions of said name...

Thats what attorneys are for darlin'. Maybe you should pay one before trying to confuse copyright and trademark up.

Copyright? Pahh, on names versus extensions say, rockhead.com versus rockhead.net? As far as our PAID for attorney says... and she's no slacker let alone cheap, you can own the rockhead.com and have porn and WE can own the dot net and do porn as well. :winkwink:

No Trademark Infringement ... clearer now?

I'm not some silly 20 year old girl. I've ran businesses longer than alot of you have been alive. lol

Attorneys and accountants are part of OUR life. :thumbsup

Try it you'll like it,,, til the bill comes.

Well, I'd say it's Patrick's call here. He's a big boy, he can do what he wants, and if there are consequences, I'm sure he's aware of them.

Now back to those fools telling me Russians don't cheat.

Check with another lawyer then.

If you trademark TheHun in the context of a name brand in the porn world, you cannot sue me or take my domain if I setup thehun.org and sell old viking stories.

That was in the context of porn FP. :winkwink: I just wasn't quite clear enough.

Oh.

Uhhh...

I knew that. Really. :winkwink:

first of all img src'ing is just as illegal as dos attacks etc. but doubt you will go to jail for it however you can be held responsible.

but shit if i were pornu.ru i would just make it load the huns thumbs up :1orglaugh

It's amazing what these big-headed TGP types think they can do. This is illegal, as several people have pointed out in this thread, and as I have pointed out myself that last couple of times they have done something like this.

Sure, the Russian scum are cheaters, but it's just bloody stupid to take the law into your own hands like this. If good ole "Patrick" was in the US, he'd probably be in custody right now, as this falls under several US anti-hacking/DOS statutes IIRC.

Also, as has been shown in the past, a smart webmaster can EASILY turn this around on the img srcer- how many times has GFY had problems now because of some dumb ass TGP mfer img srcing, and the victim turning it around with a good htaccess or router rule? I've seen it 3 times that I can remember.

Bottom line: Just because your head is as big as your car, doesn't mean you can do anything.

Cheers,
Backov

So what should he do? Sit by idely?
I might not like the feeling of getting fucked up the ass enough to just sit there and wait...

You beat me to the punch Dr. Guile!

Ditto.

I agree. He should sue the Russian.

:eek7

That's the main point to this really. There is no legal action that can be taken. The legality of img sourcing is uncertain at best for reasons people have already stated and that many have ignored. Either way the alternative is to sit back and say fine - continue to fuck me over. I know what I'd do in the Hun's place....

So if the legal system isn't working fast enough for you, you should go vigilante? That's what everyone in this thread that supports this guys actions is saying.

BTW, I did just do a lookup on google, and this is indeed against the law (National Information Infrastructure Protection Act of 1996) although I am not lawyery enough to be able to tell whether or not his host is liable for his criminal actions (as they are US based)

Cheers,
Backov

Ummm....you're missing the point totally. It has nothing to do with the legal system being too slow and everything to do with the legal system being 100% unable to do anything about it.

No, I would say you're the one missing the point here. Here's an analogy that you may understand a little better: Your stereo thief gets off on a technicality. The system is "unable to do anything" - do you go vigilante?

Believe me, there are other answers here than what he is doing.

Cheers,
Backov

I think you're missing the point too that this could be considered a criminal act on the huns part and being that he lives in a country that is not "lawless" he might just get into trouble.

Another thing he's not considering...if he does this to any american companies and with the new anti-terrorist laws that have gone into place etc The Hun just might be picked up next time he walks through U.S. Customs at J.F.K. on his way to a convention.

No I don't think I am somehow. If the stereo thief continued to steal my goods every day and the police would refuse to stop him from doing so then yes I would. I you're gonna try an analogy it should at least be relevant

Not really. The legality of his actions is at best fuzzy. Either way I am not arguing that point. I am saying I would not let someone continue to screw me over on a daily basis if I had some action I could take back. If people who disagree with his actions would rather sit back and let it happen than take the 'vigilante' route then that's up to them. I'm not defending him as such other than saying there is no other action he can take about a Russian site. My stand is that I would do the same. Others obviously differ which is life. However, my point remains that he has no other way to stop them that anybody here has suggested.

They have courts in Russia???

Just curious:

1) Why can't they just change index.html to default.htm and the other site change the name of the graphic to something else and have the index page point to that? Sure they would have a lot of 404 requests to deal with - and thehun could change as well.

2) How much bandwidth would this really burn?

I don't see how anyone could say this is legal. Sure framing stuff and things like that have iffy legal situations, but when someone does something - that has no benefit to the user - or anyone else - it is obvious what he is doing. I have seen judges get pretty pissed off at this kind of behavior (revenge type stuff - not image sourcing :)

No law, no right, no privledge iis absolute. You can't get away with printing money by saying freedom of te press or things like that. I can't see ANY WAY this could be legal. if it was - you could do it to anyone you disliked. Companies could do it to their competitors.

Domain law disputes have allowed parties to substitute domain names as a party to the suit. I think it won't be long until we see stuff like this happening in situations like this.

I don't like cheaters either, but when you let individuals decide this sort of stuff - you erode any protection for those of us that are honest. Just because it is hard to fight, because they are in Russia - it doesn't make it much better.

What about the increased costs of bandwidth for those pages that are loading in the background for the innocent isps?

We're still waiting on your sugestions...


Also, like Tipsy pointed out, your example doesnt fit the bill... Plus he isnt breaking the porno.ru guys legs... he's just stopping copyright infrigement...

Dude quit arguing just to argue...LOL and actualy read what people post.

If you did you would see these words....

CONSIDERED and MIGHT

At the very least he's taking a chance...who cares if his Dutch lawyers tell him it's okay...if he does it to an American based company and they press charges how much do you want to bet Interpol will go and arrest his ass and turn him over to American Authorities...and if you think they won't do that...then think again...look at how many other european countries have worked with the FBI and Interpol in tracking down other hackers.

If this were being done to my website all I know is I would be on the phone with the FBI and let them handle it how they see fit...but then again I'm not a spammer or a cheater so no need to worry ;)

Now as far as the vigilante issue is concerned...we're not talking about anything really being stolen here other than a set of links.

Sure it's a copyright violation and an intellectual property rights violation but damn...do you honestly think the hun suffered from this?

I'm not saying he shouldn't protect what is his but there is no real cause to possibly put your own self into legal jeopardy here.

And for those who compare this to acting out revenge on a child molester...man you need to get your priorities straightened out.

That's really been my main argument - nobody who's crying about the legality of it has given any alternatives other than letting it happen every day. I've no interest in the rights or wrongs of the hun's actions really other than wanting to know what alternatives he had. I agree the Hun's actions are at best in a grey area and have stated that even so I'd probably do the same. Again that has not been my argument - rather what alternative was there other than to let it happen.

For the few who haven't understood it yet legal action is not an option at all.

BTW - please remember that this site had CP links on it too.

Oh, and to people arguing about the legality of this...


Its illegal... if it isnt, it should be...

...If thehun did it to me, we would sue his ass.


BUT


he wouldnt do it to me, because we wouldnt do illegal stuff to him!!

The russians did...

I would do the same...


IF it was someone in the USA or Western europe stealing from thehun, he would sue Im sure...
but he cant...
So he's dealing with them in the next best way...


again, I would do the same...

Why would the webmaster of a Hun knock off site in Russia bother to pursue legal action at all? He's probably 15 years old, and no one but us would give a shit.

Just imagining if this guy would be given a jury of his peers he'd probably have Sasush as his Jury Foreman....LOL

12Clicks for the prosecution.

:1orglaugh

Naw. Several people have said that they think it might be, or ought to be, in their little corner of the world...or something like that.

The one link provided in this thread was to a United States statute criminalizing various unauthorized access to or damage to United States government computers. It would probably take a year of litigation to determine whether hotlinking an image on a US govt computer "damaged" it within the meaning of the statute -- but I doubt porn.ru is on a US govt. server so who cares?

Nothing so far posted in this thread has linked to any evidence or credible argument that hotlinking of public images on a russian server by a dutch person using a server in the United States is illegal. Y'all are within yer rights to say it ought to be, but stop saying it IS until you know what you are talking about.

I did but Forkbeard has sort of covered it for me. It'd take a lot money paid to a lot of very expensive people to even come close to the answer of the legality. I'm not even gonna try. However I agree that it SHOULD be illegal. That still doesn't mean I wouldn't have done the same as the hun.

Just so. I'd estimate the job as taking about a person-month of professional time that's gonna run you somewhere between $150 and $300 an hour for the quality of work needed to have any faith in the answer.

Amen

only guys who whine about it being illegial are fucking SCAMMERS themselves. They deserves what they get.

EDIT: blah, not worth it. I forgot it was Sleazy, not a real person.

Cheers,
Backov

See you in court then. Not like I'm hiding.

so is it down already?