i think that kid wont be able to listen any more... thanks mr crazy gun holder...

GO FUCK YOUR SELF

I think we should drop nukes on people who use handicap spots :1orglaugh

we dont even know this guy was armed , lets not get ahead of ourselves

Obviously things arent as cut and dry as that..

If a crackhead walked into a packed daycare with a shotgun asking for $5 , you think the owners should open fire ? get real

In Texas?

I usually aggree with your posts but you obviously dont know many cops or much about volatile situations like this one. The instructer acted perfectly. He neutralized the threat when it presented itself in the safest possible manner. He deserves a pat on the back; and I bet you the woman and child had no complaints on how it turned out.

Yeah, but you can infer from the verdict that the shopkeep was justified in the shooting. And if the perp was just an average joe customer who wasn't doing anything wrong, why is he in jail? I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that the judge and laywers are of sound mind and were privey to all kinds of information that we didn't get from the video.

Note the kid barely flinches; a 9mm going off in a room like that is barely as loud as a black cat... It could only be worse.

i totally agree with you there , i was speaking from our perspective watching the video..

Chances are he DID have a gun and he DID threaten the person with bodily hard BEFORE the guy shot the robber

I was sort of taking the devils advocate roll from what we KNOW from the video.. we dont see a weapon , the audio is cut out , and the beginning seems to skip out as he enters..

we have differing opinions then , it happens

The woman has no complaints because she is obviously an idiot not protecting her child in any way , the child isnt old enough to talk most likely so she wont be thanking anyone .

The guy did NOT act perfectly , he continued to pursue the robber before he worried about the safety of the customers. He shot an apparently unarmed uncobative man in the back as he tried to run away.. if thats a perfect shooting then yes we disagree..

again i must state , HE ISNT A COP , im not a cop im not trained to handle those situations and im sure neither is he , so i'm not trying to say i wouldn't have done THE EXACT SAME THING

Its easy to play arm chair robbery , but not so easy when your in the situation..

Hopefully i would have been able to handle it BETTER, but realistically i wouldnt have..

No........ if that was the case, the NRA guy would be in jail.

Sounded like he was armed to me.

From the original post:
the guy who shot back was an NRA firearms instructor.

he said that the perp raise his gun towards him when he seen the NRA guy start to draw down on him, thats when he fired at the robber.

You're right about this. But when you're in a situation like the one we see on the film, you're less concerned about the statistics and more concerned about fending off somebody who is threatening your life. Even if 0.01% of robbers shoot their victims, you don't want to be in that 0.01% statistic.

to me its just simple math

How many times do robbers walk into a place and shoot unarmed shopkeepers and/or their customers.. ?

Ok now how many times do robbers get in a gunfight with the store owner and someone gets shot .. hmmmmmmmm

Its not hard math.. your chances DECREASE at an alarming rate as soon as you pull a weapon out.

So without anything else , as soon as he pulled his weapon out he just DECREASED the chances of him and his customers of leaving the store alive..

Thats called simple math. :)

Thats what you would think wouldn't you.. :1orglaugh

and oj is innocent.. , just because your in jail doesn't make you guilty , just as being free doesn't make you innocent..

when was the last time you had someone put a loaded gun in your face? You can only assume they mean you harm... it's alot more than simple math; that's why it's a judgement call.

edit: it seems to me that best judgement was used

i have had it happen on a few dozen occasion.. a few by cops.. prob would have at least a half dozen kills on my record if i shot someone everytime they pointed a gun at me..

I agree obviously a judgement call is needed in any situation , im going only by the facts from the video.

If the guy was a repeat serial killer who murdered shopkeepers and said im here to rape and kill you all and take the money , your still statistcally more likely to get shot once you pull out your weapon but realistically , your dead if you dont.. :)

Here's what's right and wrong about this entire scenario.

1.) The fucking counter top is NOT a baby seat. The establishment exchanges money and a baby on top of the counter, whether held by it's mother or not is WRONG.

2.) The NRA guy who is armed is sitting down BEHIND and BELOW his defensive and offensive field of view and platform. He's on a computer and he can't see the perpetrator enter. Note that the perpetrator is wearing all black and a ski mask and is well inside the door before action is begun.

3.) The counter girl is smart. She doesn't hesitate and goes to give the money immediately. Money is insured but it ain't worth dying for.

4.) The counter girl is to the right of the NRA guy. His field of view and defensive platform are compromised by her presence and girth. She's no small fry woman and he has to step around her in order to draw his weapon. He does so and clearly telegraphs his moves. I'm surprised he and the counter girl weren't shot.

5.) As the perp makes a hasty retreat while the NRA guy's weapon is being discharged he is still able to make it to the door. No. The first round should have dropped his ass to the ground. He was still moving with weapon in hand. No. Weapon in hand means one shot, one kill.

6.) The NRA guy stands there posing with weapon in hand INSIDE the store while the baby and mother are still within the action platform! It 'looks' as though the perp is down outside but where's the weapon? Does the NRA guy go and disarm him to make sure? Does anyone order the mother and baby to go behind the counter to safety? Were ricochet solutions considered?

7.) Shooting him in the back is NOT an act of cowardice. He was moving AND still had a weapon. As long as he had that weapon OR the NRA guy reasonably believed he may have had a second weapon, his option was to stop his ass cold. A gun is the manifestation of one statement: "I said stop NOW!".

This could have turned into a worse case scenario. The mother and establishment were at fault with the baby on the shelf in the first place. Luckily the NRA guy is a good enough shot and the perpetrator an asshole or all could have been lost.

If you're carrying a firearm as defense of an establishment you drill, drill, drill and maximize all field control options. Not, jump up and draw your gun slower than a Star Wars Stormtrooper.

It's a scary moment in a gunfight but cool heads and sharp wits will prevail. 9 times out of 10 a robber will not shoot if things go as smoothly. Yet you never know and it's a case by case basis on what to do. In this case the robber is lucky his ass is alive.

so tired of people that cant read. NOBODY is sticking up for the "crackhead".. nobody said the crackhead is the VICTIM. grab a clue..

:thumbsup :thumbsup great assesment.

all 3 rounds struck the robber..... do not think that there is such a thing as "one sot one kill" that is sniper & movie talk...

80% of people shot with a handgun live, even after being hit multiple times.

ther is no such thing as "one shot one kill" certainty.... that is sniper talk & too many movie lines.

80% of all people shot with a handgun survive, even if hit multiple times...

also for smokey:

the robber DID have a gun & was raising it to engage the NRA i.nstructor

it was in ohio & we have the "obligation to retreat law"

but apparently, the judge found that he was justified.

also, the guy from the forum said that the man saying things like "hurry up before i shoot you" & other things that a lowlife like this robber would say.

i agree that that baby was in close proximity, but situations like this are never ideal to begin with. the NRA guy didnt "use an unarmed victim for cover".

and lots of robbers do shoot there victims after they have successfully obtained the money & dont have to do anything else but leave.

why they would shoot someone they just successfully robbed i have no idea, but i can tell you this. a woman in my hometown was shot & killed by a robber who came into her convienience stor. after he had they money he could have easily turned & ran away. but for some reason, he shot her in the face multiple times.

also you say that the NRA guy put everyone in unneccessary danger... but everyone was ALREADY in danger when the guy came in with a gun to rob the place.

ok people look.... sociopaths exist... whatever is wrong with thier mental wiring to make them be that way we have no idea... sociopaths have a strange want to hurt & kill people... violent crime in america is an epidemic, the reason why is because of all the criminal coddling laws... it seems that violent offenders in this country have more rights than the victim, because some jackass always wants to make excuses for the bad guy saying things like "he was disadvantaged & poor. he had to commit that crime because society put him in a situation where he had no other choice".... bullshit...

i am not a "gun nut" who wants to be able to shoot someone... but i am not willing to be a victim to a scumbag like this guy.... also, all of us who are willing to defend our lifes from the criminal degenerates in society are not "gun nuts".... we are people who choose not to be a victim & nothing more....

i agree that the whole situation was not ideal, but when is it ever ideal...

for the record, the mother of that baby wrote a letter in his defense saying that she felt that her life was probably saved that day...

i just domt understand why anyone would fualt the law abidin citizen, & give any recourse to the bad guy... saying things like "just let him take the money & leave" encourages criminals to continue thier ways.... its no different than raising a spoiled child.... it is human nature to continue to do things if you are not punished for them...

i might not agree with what some of you are saying. but i will defend your right to say it:thumbsup:


i am not a violent person... i am a prudent man who will not tolerate an attack from a dirtbag like this... i hope that none of us are ever put in this situation.....

i have had a gun pointed in my face & the guy holding it was asking his homeboys if he should shoot.... i was scared that i was going to die.... i thought about my mom crying at my funeral, and my then girlfriend, & all my other family.... i also kept thinking to myself "this fucking punk has the nerve to pull a gun out & ask his homies if he should shoot me" i was also thinking " if i had a gun & could get to it without being shot first that i would have killed that piece of shit right there"

but that is just me.

edited to say : double post... gfy has been kinda fucking up on my computer lately.

nice shots

Must have been one zen ass NRA kid; I would have put 3 in the back of their face

I don't give a fuck how experienced this guy is with guns. The criminal looks like a fucking idiot who could have done anything. That so called good guy should be locked up. His company has insurance, what if the bad guy had fired and hit that baby and mother?

Fucking irresponsible asshole!

I can and have shot a 1" 1000 metre group; and there is a one shot one kill. However there is always a tool for the job!

man! he is a superhero! a real one! he doesn't care how many children's lives he is taking away... mad mad mad

This was posted by the guy who shot the robber on the AR15.com forums:

Nice shooting heh first shot hits the roof

Yep, Crack head boy got what he deserved :-)

So glad he lived to serve his 7 yrs in jail.

I know a place down the road that buys and sells diamonds and gold, he was robbed and shoot 7 times, he also shot back at the crack heads. He recovered and is back at his business. Crack/Meths heads, should be shot!

ROFL! He used the fat chick in the vid as a shield? He never explained why the fuck the baby was sitting on the counter in the first place.

The opportunity for a fucked up situation was established and a fucked up situation occured.

Sure he did the world a favor by sending that crazy fuck robber to jail but that whole situation could have turned out more f-ed up.