Does it matter? The government has denied 4000505 times ANY explosives. Instead they stick to their retarded story that is near impossible to swallow. You also mentioned making planes disappear above, I think it's a lot easier to make one disappear when nobody is looking for it than to make one disappear at a crash site.

Yes i did. I watched this video made with wikipedia, google earth and blog articles. What a joke. Not a single evidence in this video. He is just filming some documents, no real witnesses, nothing ... just some stupid theories to entertain wackos addicted to conspiracy delusions.

And if the hijackers are alive and well, just bring them in front of a camera. It's been 5 years and none of them appeared on TV. With all these conspiracy theorists and anti-american journalists around the world, if they were alive we would have seen these guys already. It would be so fucking easy to prove this.

good post gregb

this is not a govt crime, this is a crime commited by criminals and it doesn't even require the corruption of more than a dozen people in certain positions. When you get after this attack your president and vice president straightfully and with no-doubt show a single direction, with no evidences and you know there's something wrong you swallow it and you do not question it.

Republicans are in fault because they do not question the simplest things and they limit themselves on making smart ass comments. You fools this is your own country, what kind of patriotic bs you've been claim when you put your personal ego above your country?

Unless there were explosives planted on specific placements of WTC towers these 2 buildings would be impossible to collapse in 9 sec or so like they did. Airplanes or whatever it was it didn't touch more than small sections of the upper part of them. Under normal conditions both towers would have been reconstructed regardless the size of the damage.

We'tr all fucked.. Time to over throw the Goverments.

I've read 10000 pages on both sides of the argument. I think conspiracy theorists are nuts that have to dillute their films with so much bullshit even open minded people blow them off. However, there are points mixed in all that garbage that cannot be argued. The fact that the WTC buildings could not have collapsed from an impact / fire of a plane is 1 of many.

i was just waiting someone to comment on wiki pedia used. If out of all these the only thing you have to tell me is that wikipedia was used to reffer on 3 occurrences with no real value then be it.

Now we got the antiamerican comments again. The easy gateway. This reminds me a redux of 2001 gfy posts. I think you are living in a televised reality. If your attitude reflects that you don't really give a shit on what really happened/s, but what you want to hear; bear in mind the rest and largest part of the world doesn't give a pile of shits for it.

people who refuse to believe the truth are beneath us...we should look for ways to exploit them...they obviously dont mind

:thumbsup thhough not being a structual engineer i dont really know if its possible or not , but i do know it hasn't happened before or since 9/11

Some of the funny "false" facts on the video, really dilute the message. When they are talking to an eyewitness to the flight 91 crash he is saying " no wreckage no smoke" meanwhile the video in the background shows both wreckage and smoke..

The airlines stock thing is another "misinformation". Stocks dont really do "averages" well some do , but airlines stock doesnt really do "averages" one day they might be up 10% the next down 10% ( in trading not price ). Its clear that whomever made those stock sells only profited 2 million.. not exactly incentive to kill thousands of people i would like to see the average "puts" on american airlines throughout the year. If it did show a "trend" then i might re-think that theory , but it doesnt hold up under scrutiny

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

You're fucking joking right? :1orglaugh

Imagine that. Simple logical explanations to wacko conspiracy nutjubs tinfoil hat theories. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Read this page for why they collapsed.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=4&c=y

who knows just sucks what happend

What are Gitmo and Bagram for ???

Why are there some " ghost" prisoners in " secret" prison ... operated by a nation promoting freedom and democracy ????

i agree with the first part of your statement... the last however is wrong. it can be argued.

the video points out that no building like this has ever collapsed due to fire... but the video also fails to admit that no building of this size has ever experienced this type of fire and this type of fire fueled by 1000's of gallons of aviation fuel. the b-52 that crashed into the empire state building is a much smaller plane, with only a fraction of the fuel and there is no comparison structurally between the WCT and Empire State Building being that the WTC is very unique in its design. you don't have to be a noble prize winning scientist to know that you can't say its not possible because its never happened when there are no direct and similar comparisons to be made.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
The collapse of both World Trade Center towers--and the smaller WTC 7 a few hours later--initially surprised even some experts. But subsequent studies have shown that the WTC's structural integrity was destroyed by intense fire as well as the severe damage inflicted by the planes. That explanation hasn't swayed conspiracy theorists, who contend that all three buildings were wired with explosives in advance and razed in a series of controlled demolitions.






Widespread Damage
CLAIM: The first hijacked plane crashed through the 94th to the 98th floors of the World Trade Center's 110-story North Tower; the second jet slammed into the 78th to the 84th floors of the 110-story South Tower. The impact and ensuing fires disrupted elevator service in both buildings. Plus, the lobbies of both buildings were visibly damaged before the towers collapsed. "There is NO WAY the impact of the jet caused such widespread damage 80 stories below," claims a posting on the San Diego Independent Media Center Web site (sandiego.indymedia.org). "It is OBVIOUS and irrefutable that OTHER EXPLOSIVES (... such as concussion bombs) HAD ALREADY BEEN DETONATED in the lower levels of tower one at the same time as the plane crash."

FACT: Following up on a May 2002 preliminary report by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), a major study will be released in spring 2005 by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), a branch of the U.S. Department of Commerce. NIST shared its initial findings with PM and made its lead researcher available to our team of reporters.

The NIST investigation revealed that plane debris sliced through the utility shafts at the North Tower's core, creating a conduit for burning jet fuel--and fiery destruction throughout the building. "It's very hard to document where the fuel went," says Forman Williams, a NIST adviser and a combustion expert, "but if it's atomized and combustible and gets to an ignition source, it'll go off."

Burning fuel traveling down the elevator shafts would have disrupted the elevator systems and caused extensive damage to the lobbies. NIST heard first-person testimony that "some elevators slammed right down" to the ground floor. "The doors cracked open on the lobby floor and flames came out and people died," says James Quintiere, an engineering professor at the University of Maryland and a NIST adviser. A similar observation was made in the French documentary "9/11," by Jules and Gedeon Naudet. As Jules Naudet entered the North Tower lobby, minutes after the first aircraft struck, he saw victims on fire, a scene he found too horrific to film.


"Melted" Steel
CLAIM: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

the list of prisoners has been released by court order. get over yourself. seems the democracy and legal system work pretty well and bush is not actually the undisputed ruler of the universe.

After court battles, SOME names have been released from Gitmo, but only those that were subject to procedures . If nothing was done in respect for a detainee, nothing shows. Check it out.

Since this administration has lost most of its battle after courts render decisions ( still amazing that you have to sue for everytrhing ...), they now ship prisonners in Bagram ( Afghanistan ) where they are out of jurisdiction ....

" Heck of a job, democracy " :thumbsup

almost all names were released. i was just listening to a story about it on NPR yesterday. don't you get tired of hating america on messageboards all day everyday? do you ever break up the monotony with a nice walk or good meal or actually stepping away from teh computer?

1) FYI, I am just back from 3 weeks holiday.
2) I posted less than you in this and other threads, and less than Shittyfingersdotnet...
3) Why is stating facts that you acknowledge considered " Anti-American" ? Are you ashamed ?

Now you say " almost " .. that is what I pointed to after your claim that :

I just corrected your erroneous information and spreading of it...

Now, for my point on Bagram:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...648878,00.html

So is showing this anti-american... If so, this means that America stands for torture, deprived rights, kidnapping , murder and so on...

Fine with me, just stop abusing the words FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY, ok.

Did a plane fly into the third tower too? I won't even argue with you about this because I am way too tired to go dig up information on the subject of steel beams melting from heat or how buildings fall in real life but it is out there. So simply list their explanation for the third building collapsing, I'll roll around on the floor laughing and we'll call it a day. :1orglaugh

That page doesn't explain away the video that was shot on the tripod from across the street. Fast forward to 53:00 in the video.. It clearly shows vibrations that shook the camera 15 secs before the building started to fall.

I can accept the pancake effect and I have always believed that that's what happened.. However watching what that video recorded makes me have to think about it again.

I don't really fall for the conspiracy stuff, but those few seconds of video are enough to make me question, if the conspiracies might hold a little truth. Keep in mind there was a lot of video's of firefighters saying they were hearing explosions all over.

I think there is enough evidence to raise question, but maybe not disprove the offical reports as to why they came down.

Oh, so now they are in prison ? Makes sense. They are alive but we will never be able to prove it...
You guys are really funny. Allways the right answer to everything.
I thought they said they were alive and working in Morroco and other places... Atta gave a phone call to his father on 9/12, probably while he was being tortured in Guantanamo by these dangerous Americans.

What can i say ... you must be right. Maybe they were abducted by space aliens ? What do you think ?

http://www.911-strike.com/debunking.htm

You are one dumb cookie. Try reading what he wrote instead just filling it in with whatever garbage you come up with.

Yes it does try reading comprehension 101. You know how much each of those floors weigh? Now start having 3 or 4 of them collapsing and hitting the concrete floor of those below it. Goto a big construction area sometime where they are dropping large equipment say 10 tons even and hitting the ground. Now find out how much each floor weighed with all its contents. Combine that x's the multible floors collapsing. Those were not explosions. Go in the middle of the floor in the room you are in. Jump off a chair and land in the middle of the room without bending your knees. Do you hear a sound?

Just throwing another link on the pile..
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...34652002408586
It's a raw video of a lecture given by BYU professor Steven Jones.

Look its DirectCumFiesta. :1orglaugh

Are you trying to say you are not anti American? :uhoh

For those of you groaning that it's 2+ hours.. you can just set it to play and work while you listen. It's not huge on visuals, so when he says "look at this" you can flip back to see and then go back to work.

lets just assume for the time being the qualified structual engineer who certified the components that made up the building and said it was impossible for it to happen that way , lets assume flight 93 wasnt shot down , it was filled with passengers just like they tell us , lets assume all the facts that have been brought up are all false and its all just coincidence..

Why dont they release the 3 videos of the plane that hit the pentagon.. ?

No, just that you are an idiot :2 cents:

I would not louse my time explaining to a dumbell like you the difference between Anti-American and Anti-Bush-Administration ... That is way over your comprehension level ...

Are you telling me that you are anti-democracy and freedom ... :)

Ok take a straw. Hold it on your desk and press down on it with a bit of pressure. Now take lighter and hold in close to the straw about just brushing besides the straw.
Now that is what happened to the steel girders. They didnt necessarily melt, but the heat plus the pressure plus the stress from the crash caused them to begin to buckle. Many many engineers have said this was the cause.

You arent an American. You are a Canadian. :winkwink:

ok i can buy that ( i would buy it more from a structural engineer and i happen to know a few that dont agree but i will give you the benefit of the doubt ) , now why dont they release the 3 videos of the plane hitting the pentagon ?

When did they ever say they had them?

Well we're forgetting the catalyst to the destruction:

The hijacking of four passenger airliners with three hitting their targets? The fourth is speculative at what happened?

How the fuck do four, four passenger planes get hijacked at the same time? Who was asleep at the wheel? Why was airport security so lax? How did the two jetliners even make it to NY City after flying over restricted airspace in the first place?

Too much before, during, and after that is still needing addressing.

This isn't about anti-american, only some anal retentive pucker head ( as opposed to tinfoil insults ) would generalize asking questions as being anti-american. It's about major fuckups and the public being bullshitted again.

Government commissioned reports and studies by government connected institutes... hmmmm.

Also, see "Debunking Popular Mechanics"

http://killtown.911review.org/flight...mechanics.html

Your losing the conspiracy angle you all started with, so now you switch to this. lol :1orglaugh Why did it happen? Fuckin complacintcey just like is happening again. It will take a nuke to wake people the fuck up.

Nice link with him answering with questions. lol God you guys will do anything you can. Lameness.

theres 3 cameras that record that angle 24 hours a day and were functioning properly at the time 1 is from a citgo station 1 is from the hilton and at least 1 from the dept highways all were confiscated and have yet to be returned..

its not switching its called theories , i dont think anyone here claims to know exactly what happened but you :) i'm at least open minded enough to hear theories and try to dismiss things that arent factuall , your just calling anyone who asks a question a nutjob..

I asked a pretty simple question , thats easy to answer and doesnt require any debate. where are the three videos of the pentagon crash.. .? and why cant we see them ?

I guess I missed the part where they found explosives, or any physical evidence of explosions at the WTC site. Or the part that someone actually saw explosives in the WTC, or saw people planting them, or where the explosives came from - that is, *proof* - not just a demolition company was in the area, etc. etc.

If you critically analyze the documentary you'll find youself asking a lot more questions about the validity of this so-called proof. The documentary expects the viewer to connect a LOT of dots to make this story feasible and until a documentary is ever released showing things like a missile hitting the Pentagon, or collaborators who confess to planting explosives, or the allegedly still-alive terrorists are captured/caught on film, etc. and on and on then this is all just theory.

ok... building 7 was demo'ed. and what? are you happy now? are you now arguing that the whole WTO/Pentagon thing was actually a set up by the Bush administration and part of a massive conspiracy to demo building 7? among other federal agencies, the CIA was in that building. given the extensive damage the building suffered, I am sure there were many reasons for both the owner and many of its occupants to make sure it went down and make sure everything was completely destroyed. that also sounds like a perfectly fine reason to hijack 4 planes, kill all the passengers, kill up to 50K people in the WTC and another 10-20K or so in surrounding buildings and on the street. you're a genius.

Theorists and followers alike should go here Click, "The missing wings" link... and the others if you are into reading.. Not theories here... scientific and engineering evidence...

I love it when people call conjecture, and guesses science. :error

Exactly. You want to talk about being patriotic, it's our constitutional right to question this whole set of events which had lead us into a quagmire in Iraq instead of being led to slaughter like sheep by this corrupt, dangerous adminsitration. Not only is it our right, it's our DUTY to expose anything that jepordizes the overall citizenry of the US.
Goddam it people, tainted elections twice, 9-11 and the fallout from it, corporate greed and corruption, lobbyists with major politcal connections indicted and on and on. And some of you just contine to eat what they feed you and question nothing. Then the ostrich set i.e head in the sand people.. call anyone who questions the company line bullshit crazy. Better check yourselves in the mirror.

i would like to believe that there is foul play behind 9/11 but it is diffuclt to do so... i can remember the tragedy vividly, the lives lost and dreams shattered. which reminds me of one person i look up to - Michael Moore

If you ever want to get some really interesting questions going in your head - try looking up a woman named Ann Tatlock. Interesting stuff and I would have to call her the luckiest woman alive - just amazing that she "happened to be at the same Air Force base that Bush ended up at later in the day instead of in her office (where the plane hit the WTC). Not conspiricy stuff - just interesting facts.

Another interesting fact to look at is the actual transcriptions of the firefighters and rescue crews that ended up at the crash site in Pa - since they didnt find one body part anywhere - and the more experienced were amazed since that has never - and hasnt happened since in a plane crash.

Conjecture??

Windows near the hole unbroken.. Pillars inside still standing.. Yet a huge plane created a small hole and flew all the way into the bldg.

Yep.. lots of guess work there..

Oh I forgot... Gfy'ers know much more than the scientists and engineers who researched all possibilities... Silly me..

couple that with who was being investigated in those buildings....along with the billions and billions of gold that went missing....insurance payoffs

it is a game of Kings and Queens...read some history...it is only rare they get caught...not rare they try shit like this.....watch the money trail...who's on top?

You didn't even read what I posted.. I'll post it again.. I clearly stated I can accept the pancake effect. It makes perfect sense to me.

The thing that raises questions in my mind, is the camera that was filming from across the street. It clearly shook from some sort of explosion 12 to 15 seconds before there were any signs that the building was coming down.

So it's not a pancake theory that makes me question, it's why did that camera shake before the building started falling?

Thanks!

As I've said all along, this is a 'criminal conspiracy'. The government conspiracy comes afterwards for not answering our questions. It's our birthright to ask questions and get accountability. The terrorist attacks didn't start with this administration, it was well in effect when Clinton was President. The problem is it taking place in the first place and not getting resolved. Every major law enforcement agency had assets in that district and any big criminal jumped for joy when they discovered either their cases would never come to arrest or court as any physical evidence kept there was obliterated.

This was a bonus for all the bad guys. Case-in-point, if Homeland Security and The Patriot Act were so effective, why the fuck are illegal narcotics, especially heroine, STILL flooding the streets of America and the world? You couldn't get a pair of tweezers in and out of the U.S. but sure as shit, tons of dope sure ain't suffered much! Even when all the planes, trains, ports were shut down, junkies were partyin' during the Apocolypse. Heroin production jumped so fucking high AFTER we invaded and secured Afghanistan that even Russia and France complained. You KNOW you're movin' too much heroin when the French can't take it anymore.

So as far as securing our safety it's bullshit. I say if Bush wants the power to eavesdrop and wiretap and detain without due process, then he can do so AFTER not one illegal alien, ounce of dope or weapons are stopped.

Ain't gonna happen. Too many security holes to fill that would fuck up the transportation of stolen goods, dope, laundered money etc.

Did you know there are specific passports issued wherein NO ONE can open and look at the contents of the passenger's belongings? Best way to smuggle dope, jewels, precious medals etc.

These attacks are committed by people and groups that just plain criminal. They work behind the scenes with established institutions in order to control and steal. Cops and military ain't gonna complain because the overtime and hazard pay over the past 5 years has reached unprecedented levels. Pays alot of mortgages and lawsuits and gambling debts and hush money.

This is the longest time in my life my family and friends who are cops in all levels have not been begging me for money. I thought they all disappeared or something. Nope, making too much in overtime and hazard pay.