Will the GUBA skin REALLY be back ? - GoFuckYourself.com

SmokeyTheBear · 02-22-2006, 03:39 AM

Will gfy cancel the contract ?

Will guba cancel the contract ?

Will GUBA skin gfy ?

How many times will GUBA be mentioned this month ?

Can you say GUBA 50 times really fast ?

Who will sue who first ?

Is there a good lawyer affiliate program i can push in my sig this month ?

Did the butler really do it ?

Is there such a thing as "too many questions" ?

Did microsoft secretly invent GUBA to encourage adult content providers to switch to drm ?

What do they make fake crab meat out of..?

Hornydog4cooter · 02-22-2006, 03:41 AM

I am curious to see how many boycott gfy if the skin returns

SmokeyTheBear · 02-22-2006, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornydog4cooter

I am curious to see how many boycott gfy if the skin returns

I doubt many REALLY will leave.. I certainly wouldnt.. GFY can tell me what to do , but i dont have to do it.. Just because gfy promotes it , doesnt mean i will, it would just take away the integrity of the sponsors on gfy banners, that i assume are judged for even a fraction more than just their $$ ( maybe falsely but i still feel that way .. i.e. more secure about a gfy banner than on any other webmaster resource site )

SmokeyTheBear · 02-22-2006, 03:47 AM

I realise its a bit foolish but when i see a program skin gfy i think , " gee these guys must really be somebody i.e. have their shit together " , after a guba skin i would just think " gee this company could be any fly by night hustlers with some $$ and a merchant for now "

polle54 · 02-22-2006, 03:48 AM

damn I missed the skin,....

SmokeyTheBear · 02-22-2006, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polle54

damn I missed the skin,....

i'll try to recreate it heres the background

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/skins/guba/skin/bg.gif

xclusive · 02-22-2006, 03:56 AM

please more buttons next time

SmokeyTheBear · 02-22-2006, 04:13 AM

this is a terrible example , but if yuou didnt see anything then umm its better than nothing , but really doesnt do it justice.. it wasnt anything spectacular but it was actually a pretty nice looking skin.. ( totally missing the page colors and top logo and several other things but.. well its got the right background and header background , ill try to find more

http://com.webspacemania.com/tuba/

Juicy D. Links · 02-22-2006, 04:15 AM

it wont be back

SmokeyTheBear · 02-22-2006, 04:22 AM

ok its fixed you should see the guba skin on top now http://com.webspacemania.com/tuba/

SmokeyTheBear · 02-22-2006, 04:25 AM

hmm notice on the top it says 2257 compliant content ? hmm i wonder who is selling them content..

SmokeyTheBear · 02-22-2006, 05:05 AM

lol the numbers are in the count is final..

Polls dont lie , people like clicking things that say not to click them

Juicy D. Links · 02-22-2006, 05:11 AM

Guba GubaGuba GubaGuba GubaGuba GubaGuba Guba

reynold · 02-22-2006, 05:14 AM

for the sake of mankind and world peace, please don't allow it to be back. or allow it, but use another name.

Brujah · 02-22-2006, 05:38 AM

Guba will return with a vengeance. This period in-between is necessary for the discussions about how people feel about what they're doing and learning what it will take for them to accept it.

FredIsMe · 02-22-2006, 05:43 AM

it'll be back

Sausage · 02-22-2006, 05:58 AM

Well we have it all wrapped up in one.

If guba is accepted in this industry then that moves us many steps closer to it being ok to steal content and use it as our own. Imagine how many paysites you could create if you didn't have to pay for content.

SmokeyTheBear · 02-22-2006, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

Guba will return with a vengeance. This period in-between is necessary for the discussions about how people feel about what they're doing and learning what it will take for them to accept it.

hmm perhaps but not how it is now.. if it does i already have aplan in place..

Basically you can setup link code directly to content searches. so if you wanted to promote lets say "the paris hilton video" you could simply upload it, then link to it and sell sell sell ,

playboy, hustler, no contest just upload and sell for a much cheaper price, you can basiaclly make fhg's of content you dont own and sell access to it.

Brujah · 02-22-2006, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

hmm perhaps but not how it is now.. if it does i already have aplan in place..

Basically you can setup link code directly to content searches. so if you wanted to promote lets say "the paris hilton video" you could simply upload it, then link to it and sell sell sell ,

playboy, hustler, no contest just upload and sell for a much cheaper price, you can basiaclly make fhg's of content you dont own and sell access to it.

This was a question I posed in another thread. If it's acceptable by GFY/Playboy, Evilgeniuscash, Anywebcam, etc.. why not push Guba instead of their own programs since it could be an easier sell ? No need to upload anything, it's usually already there anyway.

seeric · 02-22-2006, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

Will gfy cancel the contract ?

Will guba cancel the contract ?

Will GUBA skin gfy ?

How many times will GUBA be mentioned this month ?

Can you say GUBA 50 times really fast ?

Who will sue who first ?

Is there a good lawyer affiliate program i can push in my sig this month ?

Did the butler really do it ?

Is there such a thing as "too many questions" ?

Did microsoft secretly invent GUBA to encourage adult content providers to switch to drm ?

What do they make fake crab meat out of..?

if it comes back the army will be ready. 100%.
nothing good about that business model for adult content producers.

SmokeyTheBear · 02-22-2006, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

This was a question I posed in another thread. If it's acceptable by GFY/Playboy, Evilgeniuscash, Anywebcam, etc.. why not push Guba instead of their own programs since it could be an easier sell ? No need to upload anything, it's usually already there anyway.

well i dont think its just a coincidence that you can search for playboy on guba and find ZERO reults , but find plenty for other well known adult content providers.. and i also dont think they just did it out of the good of their hearts or they would have done the other obvious ones..

They will use the excuse " we will remove copyright material if notified by the owner " and im sure they tricked playboy into thinking they would keep their stuff off guba , but that wont fly for long , you would need a staff of reviewers to keep track of that sort of thing

Downtime · 02-22-2006, 07:35 AM

i doubt it will be back

SmokeyTheBear · 02-22-2006, 02:29 PM

more green's think it wont be back

but its close.. alot of people like clicking things they are not supposed to

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 02-22-2006, 02:31 PM

I predict the site will go down by the end of the month.

xclusive · 02-22-2006, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

alot of people like clicking things they are not supposed to

Sorry late at night i'm a clickaholic

I don't think it will be back though. I also think March will be a really shitty month for Guba

MaDalton · 02-22-2006, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

I predict the site will go down by the end of the month.

wanna bet? i'm sure this might affect their numbers a little bit, but closing? never.

XPays · 02-22-2006, 02:38 PM

they took down the content of ours you pointed --- thanks smokey for taking the time to do that

i have a pwd to phish for more....

Elli · 02-22-2006, 02:39 PM

Fake crab meat is made out of pollock. I asked at a japanese restaurant one time because I can't stand California rolls with fake crab meat.

TheLegacy · 02-22-2006, 02:41 PM

gfy is not that dumb as is the owners of guba - they know their reputation is not that good here and would only add fuel to the fire. No skin can repair the damage done - so they likely will go back under the carpet until they can attempt to reinvent themselves as a legal company with legal content

Kevsh · 02-22-2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredIsMe

it'll be back

Well you're still here so that's not a good omen

jayeff · 02-22-2006, 02:48 PM

I'm sure it will be back, since it's hard to believe that unless they were asleep at the wheel, GFY and probably Guba too were fully aware of the reaction that skin would get.

My first thought was to do what I did this time and just stay away while the skin was up. Thinking about it some more, it seems pretty pathetic to make that gesture but come back afterwards as if the promotion never happened.

XPays · 02-22-2006, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegacy

gfy is not that dumb as is the owners of guba - they know their reputation is not that good here and would only add fuel to the fire. No skin can repair the damage done - so they likely will go back under the carpet until they can attempt to reinvent themselves as a legal company with legal content

i have heard from multiple sources that the guba owners are smart and educated people. i wonder what they think about what is going on with the next phase of copyright law as google is finding out right now......

RawAlex · 02-22-2006, 03:05 PM

Evan, I would suspect they are thinking about how far they are going to get legally rammed up the corn hole if they don't get a better business model.

Usenet and usenet content resellers have been hanging around the edges of the online industry since, well, the start of internet time. I thought originally when major ISPs started dropping the usenet feeds that things would go away. Then google grabbed it all and gave it a new life, which truly sucked.

Hopefully this new ruling for perfect10s will give the Guba people a little food for thought, and encourage them to take up a different line of business.

Alex

jjjay · 02-22-2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornydog4cooter

I am curious to see how many boycott gfy if the skin returns

no one will. they never do. even those who say they hate this board visit every day. they can't help themselves

Brujah · 02-22-2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XPays

they took down the content of ours you pointed --- thanks smokey for taking the time to do that

i have a pwd to phish for more....

Should you have to keep doing this on a daily basis? Why would you find this an acceptable solution, rather than have them just block queries to people doing a search for the paris hilton video? Can I do the same thing? I'll give you a password to mine too, and wait for you to find it and take the action required for me to remove it. Cool?

Brujah · 02-22-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

well i dont think its just a coincidence that you can search for playboy on guba and find ZERO reults , but find plenty for other well known adult content providers.. and i also dont think they just did it out of the good of their hearts or they would have done the other obvious ones..

They will use the excuse " we will remove copyright material if notified by the owner " and im sure they tricked playboy into thinking they would keep their stuff off guba , but that wont fly for long , you would need a staff of reviewers to keep track of that sort of thing

Odd. I just did a search for Adrianne Curry, and found the entire Playboy scans of the cover, and every page and picture from the magazine.

Brujah · 02-22-2006, 04:17 PM

SmokeyTheBear · 02-22-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

Odd. I just did a search for Adrianne Curry, and found the entire Playboy scans of the cover, and every page and picture from the magazine.

i just meant the actual word "playboy" theres tons of content from all the adult.com sites and playboy on there

SmokeyTheBear · 02-22-2006, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XPays

they took down the content of ours you pointed --- thanks smokey for taking the time to do that

i have a pwd to phish for more....

thats cool , but the whole way their system works you promote specefic "keywords" i.e. content..

So lets say i wanted to sell the paris hilton video using guba , all i would do is use a public computer upload the video to guba name it SECRETNAME wait for it to get spidered then link to keyword SECRETNAME and sell the video for a discounted price.. ( and 1/3 million images/videos added daily as a bonus )..

How will they stop that ? Dont think anyone will do it ? guess again. Its already being done..

RawAlex · 02-22-2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjjay

no one will. they never do. even those who say they hate this board visit every day. they can't help themselves

Sorry, but you are wrong. If the skin comes back, I am out of here - potentially for good. Further, I would contact each sponsor personally and ask them to step away from the board.

Nobody in our business should condone or encourage theft.

Alex

XPays · 02-22-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

Should you have to keep doing this on a daily basis? Why would you find this an acceptable solution, rather than have them just block queries to people doing a search for the paris hilton video? Can I do the same thing? I'll give you a password to mine too, and wait for you to find it and take the action required for me to remove it. Cool?

they are doing that

pornstar2pac · 02-22-2006, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

it wont be back

for once, i agree with you

huey · 02-22-2006, 06:00 PM

What do they make fake crab meat out of..?

A creepy fish called Pollok I think.

Baker Rd · 02-22-2006, 06:02 PM

bottom line, it's $25k, we will see the skin again.

Kimo · 02-22-2006, 06:12 PM

i sure hope it wont be back

Baker Rd · 02-22-2006, 06:14 PM

it would be funny to see GFY servers down for the duration of their skin though, who knows

tristan_D · 02-22-2006, 06:14 PM

if GFY runs out of topic to talk about, they will put the GUBA skin back. in no time there'll be a million threads about it

sfera · 02-22-2006, 06:16 PM

who cares?

SmokeyTheBear · 02-22-2006, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XPays

they are doing that

and how will they stop people from hiding the content under random names , and advertisers promoting it as paris hilton..

They can ban keywords and such but that wont stop people from directly promoting/selling the paris hilton video thru guba..

i.e. i make a fake name AMY FARTKNOCKER upload the paris hilton video as AMY FARTKNOCKER , then as a guba affiliate i simply make a page up that says CLICK HERE TO BUY THE PARIS HILTON VIDEO and link it to the search results for AMY FARTKNOCKER.. the surfer will not see or know amy fartknocker , they will see paris hilton video and a link to buy access to it. guba hosts all the stolen content so i wouldnt even need to worry about that part, just simply create a random name for the paris hilton video and re-upload it every 15 mins of the daytie the random names into the link and bam your done, they would need to manually be deleting the video every 15 mins and somehow detect the random filename to get by it.

SmokeyTheBear · 03-09-2006, 02:48 AM

this 49'th post/bump is in memory of woj's 50 bot

View Poll Results: Will the guba skin be back ?
Yes it will be back	23	25.27%
No it won't be back	44	48.35%
who cares about guba ...	13	14.29%
I like pressing buttons	18	19.78%
DO NOT CLICK HERE !! OR ELSE	19	20.88%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

02-22-2006, 03:39 AM	#1
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	Will the GUBA skin REALLY be back ? Will gfy cancel the contract ? Will guba cancel the contract ? Will GUBA skin gfy ? How many times will GUBA be mentioned this month ? Can you say GUBA 50 times really fast ? Who will sue who first ? Is there a good lawyer affiliate program i can push in my sig this month ? Did the butler really do it ? Is there such a thing as "too many questions" ? Did microsoft secretly invent GUBA to encourage adult content providers to switch to drm ? What do they make fake crab meat out of..? __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

02-22-2006, 03:47 AM	#4
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	I realise its a bit foolish but when i see a program skin gfy i think , " gee these guys must really be somebody i.e. have their shit together " , after a guba skin i would just think " gee this company could be any fly by night hustlers with some $$ and a merchant for now " __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

02-22-2006, 03:48 AM	#5
polle54 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The Beach Posts: 4,626	damn I missed the skin,.... __________________ ICQ# 143561781

02-22-2006, 03:56 AM	#7
xclusive Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 35,218	please more buttons next time __________________ I support MediumPimpin.com / Shemp's Outlawtgp.com /

02-22-2006, 03:41 AM	#2
Hornydog4cooter Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,859	I am curious to see how many boycott gfy if the skin returns

02-22-2006, 04:13 AM	#8
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	this is a terrible example , but if yuou didnt see anything then umm its better than nothing , but really doesnt do it justice.. it wasnt anything spectacular but it was actually a pretty nice looking skin.. ( totally missing the page colors and top logo and several other things but.. well its got the right background and header background , ill try to find more http://com.webspacemania.com/tuba/ __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

02-22-2006, 04:15 AM	#9
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992	it wont be back

02-22-2006, 04:22 AM	#10
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	ok its fixed you should see the guba skin on top now http://com.webspacemania.com/tuba/ __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

02-22-2006, 04:25 AM	#11
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	hmm notice on the top it says 2257 compliant content ? hmm i wonder who is selling them content.. __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

02-22-2006, 05:05 AM	#12
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	lol the numbers are in the count is final.. Polls dont lie , people like clicking things that say not to click them __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

02-22-2006, 05:11 AM	#13
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992	Guba GubaGuba GubaGuba GubaGuba GubaGuba Guba

02-22-2006, 05:14 AM	#14
reynold Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Global Traveler Posts: 51,271	for the sake of mankind and world peace, please don't allow it to be back. or allow it, but use another name.

02-22-2006, 05:38 AM	#15
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	Guba will return with a vengeance. This period in-between is necessary for the discussions about how people feel about what they're doing and learning what it will take for them to accept it. __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

02-22-2006, 05:43 AM	#16
FredIsMe So Fucking Banned Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Livin' in America Posts: 2,406	it'll be back

02-22-2006, 05:58 AM	#17
Sausage Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 3,012	Well we have it all wrapped up in one. If guba is accepted in this industry then that moves us many steps closer to it being ok to steal content and use it as our own. Imagine how many paysites you could create if you didn't have to pay for content. __________________ IW Skype : blance8888 Icq : 15567120

02-22-2006, 07:35 AM	#22
Downtime Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Location: America. Posts: 7,320	i doubt it will be back __________________ #27024067

02-22-2006, 02:29 PM	#23
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	more green's think it wont be back but its close.. alot of people like clicking things they are not supposed to __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

02-22-2006, 02:31 PM	#24
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	I predict the site will go down by the end of the month. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

02-22-2006, 02:38 PM	#27
XPays Team Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Inside the most accurately counting and reporting affiliate system in the world at XPays.com Posts: 13,002	they took down the content of ours you pointed --- thanks smokey for taking the time to do that i have a pwd to phish for more.... __________________ InterNext Expo Domain Auction Live Now thru Feb 5 HuntingMoon GFY Domains Marketplace is LIVE XPays always pays! Top Site: * RealJasmine.com * + HotelHeiress® with The Paris Hilton Sex Video Insert the HotelHeiress® HD FEED into your members areas XPin.com Opening for Pin Partners Soonish Mainstream Offers For Emailers and DomainersNONADULT.COM Like Us!

02-22-2006, 02:39 PM	#28
Elli Reach for those stars! Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 17,991	Fake crab meat is made out of pollock. I asked at a japanese restaurant one time because I can't stand California rolls with fake crab meat. __________________ email: [email protected]

02-22-2006, 02:41 PM	#29
TheLegacy SEO Connoisseur Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brantford, Ontario Posts: 17,113	gfy is not that dumb as is the owners of guba - they know their reputation is not that good here and would only add fuel to the fire. No skin can repair the damage done - so they likely will go back under the carpet until they can attempt to reinvent themselves as a legal company with legal content __________________ SEO Connoisseur Microsoft Teams: Robert Warren SEO Telegram: @TheLegacy54 RobertWarrenSEO.com

02-22-2006, 02:48 PM	#31
jayeff Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 2,944	I'm sure it will be back, since it's hard to believe that unless they were asleep at the wheel, GFY and probably Guba too were fully aware of the reaction that skin would get. My first thought was to do what I did this time and just stay away while the skin was up. Thinking about it some more, it seems pretty pathetic to make that gesture but come back afterwards as if the promotion never happened.

02-22-2006, 03:05 PM	#33
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	Evan, I would suspect they are thinking about how far they are going to get legally rammed up the corn hole if they don't get a better business model. Usenet and usenet content resellers have been hanging around the edges of the online industry since, well, the start of internet time. I thought originally when major ISPs started dropping the usenet feeds that things would go away. Then google grabbed it all and gave it a new life, which truly sucked. Hopefully this new ruling for perfect10s will give the Guba people a little food for thought, and encourage them to take up a different line of business. Alex

02-22-2006, 04:17 PM	#37
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	__________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

02-22-2006, 06:00 PM	#43
huey Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: vancouver Posts: 3,801	What do they make fake crab meat out of..? A creepy fish called Pollok I think. __________________ opinions are like assholes................. "They aren't after me, they are AFTER YOU! Im just in their way" -D.J. Trump

02-22-2006, 06:02 PM	#44
Baker Rd Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 647	bottom line, it's $25k, we will see the skin again. __________________ money talks and bullshit walks.

02-22-2006, 06:12 PM	#45
Kimo ... Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Maryland ICQ:87038677 Posts: 11,542	i sure hope it wont be back __________________ ...

02-22-2006, 06:14 PM	#46
Baker Rd Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 647	it would be funny to see GFY servers down for the duration of their skin though, who knows __________________ money talks and bullshit walks.

02-22-2006, 06:14 PM	#47
tristan_D Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 7,865	if GFY runs out of topic to talk about, they will put the GUBA skin back. in no time there'll be a million threads about it __________________ Increase your sales. Up to $4 per click.

02-22-2006, 06:16 PM	#48
sfera Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: ICQ: 248877409 Posts: 8,597	who cares?

03-09-2006, 02:48 AM	#50
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	this 49'th post/bump is in memory of woj's 50 bot __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com