How about good old American Treasury Bonds? 100% safe, guaranteed return on investment. Take the I-Bond (Inflation Indexed bond). It currently yield 6.73% (readjusts every 6 months). 1 year ago it yielded 4.6% (at the same time money markets were at like 2%. The interest grows tax deferred, and is exempt from state taxes (which makes the effective yield something lik 7.4% here in Oregon).

4-5 years ago they were yielding north of 9%.

www.treasurydirect.gov

(they have a 30k max per year investment, and a minimum 1 year holding period).

Thus far I can't find any reason anyone would ever choose a CD or bond yielding less then 5% when this option exists.

If you were in the domain market you'd know that not a whole lot of people with good domains want out.

Thats a pretty cool site. Who would have ever thought? eLoanSharking.

prosper.com looks great, but I don't think they take non-US lenders

in regards to hebrew.com, probably only thing worth doing is to redirect it to jdate.com or something, not worth $125k unless you are jewish and its sentimental value :)

In regards to real estate, commercial real estate values are a derivative of their net operating income everywhere in the world. If you buy in a stable market (read: not California if you're in the US) and hold for the long term, with 80% debt you will make a 20-30% return every year for the first five years or so. You will not lose if you buy a stable property in a 'boring' market and do not over-leverage yourself. With 20% down payment you should have about a 10% cash on cash return every year (not counting appreciation and mortgage paydown), which is more than enough to cover any contingencies. Medium sized apartment complexes are probably best (50 units) because with more tenants, there is less risk of losing enough to put you negative. The 10% cash on cash is the net after paying a good management company to run everything so you don't have to deal with it.

Breakdown of how you get 30% return for the first 5 years:

10% cash on cash from rents
10% from morgage pay down (2% is paid on mrtg balance per year, but you only put 20% down, so this magnifies your return)
10% for appreciation (2% appreciation per year from rent increases)

You will lose some money if you sell it in 5 years (probably 1 year's worth of gain) because of real estate commissions, but if you refinance and take your money out and buy another property, you can do it all over again. If you keep doing this in 15 years you will be rich.

p.s. or you could buy $200k worth of adwords and send to Webcams.com :)

I've seen a UK-based site that takes it one step further... your money goes into a pool which is lent to multiple borrowers, so that one or two people defaulting won't leave you with zero.

Lots of credit unions have 6%ish APY savings certificates...

have u delt with every single domain owner in this world?
i use the term "want out" to apply to real estate.

for domains, u can say "undevelopped, no sedo landing, nothing on page. etc etc)

so ya, if u have delt with everyone in this world that owns a good domain, congratulations.

Real estate.. lol,

where was this cry for real estate pre 1999?

wait till the numbers dont make sense and everyone jumps into stocks again

he was talking a 200k investment, not buying a single family 'investment homes'..

investments are investments. like i said, if interest keeps going up or other factors, then RE might not be a good investment

Except these two points:

• All applicants are given a credit score (categories A, B, C or D where A is the best credit rating) by the credit reference agency Equifax. Only those who fall into categories A and B are allowed to borrow through Zopa.
  
• You can't choose which individuals to lend to - you only choose which of the two markets to lend to ie: borrowers classified as extremely creditworthy (Market A) or those who are marginally a higher risk (Market B)

With Prosper, everyone is allowed to apply. For those who want to play it safe, Zopa is prolly OK but I like to take a little risk every once in a while in exchange for the possibility of higher returns, so I might want to try loaning out to a few high risks to see what happens. Some of the intrest rates are upwards of 20% on Prosper, so it would seem that there is definitely a potential for profit. And by loaning smaller amounts to more people, risk can be spread out (not everyone is going to default) and the numbers would come out better I would think.

They do the same thing, you setup a standing order and tell the system to loan "X" to each borrower up to "Y" that meets A, B and C criteria. Then the system goes and loans out to those who meet the requirements. You can do as little as $50 to each borrow up to the full amount of thier request.

I think the way I would play it is this: (Assuming I had $100K to play with)

Setup a standing order to do $2500 to those with AA ratings up to $50K.
Setup a standing order to do $1500 to those with A ratings up to $20K.
Setup a standing order to do $1000 to those with B ratings up to $20K.
Setup a standing order to do $100 to those with C/D ratings up to $5K.
Setup a standing order to do $50 to those with HR/NC ratings up to $5K.

That way the robot does all the work and the lending is always diversified. Someone that has an AA rating probably isnt going to default on a $2500 loan. Its just not very likely to happen. That would keep the risk spread around with the most of it being in the right department with a little in the high risk dept.

And high risk loans are profitable. Look at all those check cashing stores that loan people $500 to hold a personal check. Those loans cost something like upwards of 600% APY so I have heard, you can affoard alot of defaults when you are raking it in like that.

What's the catch here? Have you actually bought these? Why would anyone buy coorporate bonds that yield less than that? Or buy cds that yield about half that? And why would normal treasury bonds pay 4.5% while this pays 6.5%?

Yeah, but with a good commercial propery rates would have to go higher than 10% before you even have to worry about being negatively geared, while the same isn't true for single family residential (which is what everyone is doing).. if you are really conservative put 30% down, and you won't be negative unless rates go above 12% or so. With 30% down you'll still make about 20%/yearly

more better to put money on Romania stock index, ROTX. Romaniab stocks will rise same way as countries who joined EU two years before (czech, poland, hungary, etc.). Last year it was 60% percent up, this year its already about 15% percent up.

any way to just buy the index instead of buying individual stocks?

I guess its possible to buy it only via EU based brokers.
You can see chart of Romanian stock index here:
http://zertifikatejournal.cz/content...ChartHist =12
almost 100% percent gain from last march (i would like to correct details from my previous post about rise of index). I recommed this because i am from on these new EU countries (czech republic) and our index has increased for around 300% in past 5 years. The same situation was in other countries who joined EU too. And Romanian will become EU member next year.

nice info boys

Surprised no one has mentioned ING.com for something real easy. They pay 3.75% interest with no fees on anything at all. No minimum, can get your money in 2-3 days. They actually have a special of 4.75% on money deposited this winter.

It's nothing special, but if you're lazy like me, it's nice to logon once a month and throw some extra cash in there and not have to worry.

http://www.emigrantdirect.com/ usually beats ING by .25%

It's a US government bond, not a whole lot of room for scamming. The I-Bond rate consists of 2 components. A fixed interest rate you get for the life of the bond, and an adjustable interest rate based on the current inflation index. The adjustable rate changes every 6 months. Downsides are the 1 year minimum holding period (if you cash out before 5 years you forfeit your last 3 months of interest).

From

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/sav/sbirate2.htm

Note the lowest interest rates in the last 8 years have been basically tied to when the federal prime rate was at its low. Meaning presumably in May rates should increase since we've had some nice sized rate hikes in the last 6 months. If anyone has some older data than this maybe there's a catch somewhere but thus far it seems like they beat other bonds by a few percentage points.

NOV 2005 - APR 2006 6.73%
MAY 2005 - OCT 2005 6.93%
NOV 2004 - APR 2005 6.73%
MAY 2004 - OCT 2004 6.73%
NOV 2003 - APR 2004 6.83%
MAY 2003 - OCT 2003 6.83%
NOV 2002 - APR 2003 7.35%
MAY 2002 - OCT 2002 7.76%
NOV 2001 - APR 2002 7.76%
MAY 2001 - OCT 2001 8.79%
NOV 2000 - APR 2001 9.20%
MAY 2000 - OCT 2000 9.40%
NOV 1999 - APR 2000 9.20%
MAY 1999 - OCT 1999 9.09%
NOV 1998 - APR 1999 9.09%
SEP 1998 - OCT 1998 9.20%

Invest in Tim Hortons!

David - for the same reason factories that produce goods dont sell them also, It's not what they do. I wouldnt look at it in terms of them using you, I would look at it as them giving you what you wanted but partially on their terms espeically since you approach them for money and not vice versa.

A lot of hedge funds do real estate, as do investment banks. Traditional retail banks just want to get as many deposits as possible and make money off the float. They charge you 7% for a mortgage, but pay 1% for the deposit, so they are basically making 7x their money. Why would they do real estate when they can do this?

With real estate, you make money from LEVERAGE. You do not make money from paying cash for property, which is what a bank would do. Grade A real estate would return about 6% plus 3% per year average in appreciation, but when you add leverage in the mix, those amounts are tripled. It is no different than buying stocks on margin or using options.

Your average retail investor who can only put $15k/yr into their IRA should stick to ETF's. But if you have $200k to invest, *commercial* real estate is a better option. Residential real estate is too speculative and property values are too subjective. (high priced) commercial real estate values are based on the property's income, nothing more!

One good option for the retail investor might be to buy some real estate ETF's or some REITs that own propery in stable, boring markets, although REIT's usually only leverage 50%, so there isn't as much a return as if you did it yourself.

an example of an investment bank doing real estate:

http://www.goldmansachs.com/client_s...ing/index.html

If I had that much cash to invest I'd buy a Japanese mutual fund. (Ie, a fund that contains all Jap corps.) Japan has been in recession for like 15 years now, they are just coming out of it, should boom good over the next 10 years. Might want to spread that out over an Indian fund or Brazilian fund, too.

Good luck with it.

good info boys

Yes, some hedge funds do real estate, as do some specialized investment firms ("sale and lease back"). However, this has not much in common of what regional shit banks promise to hard working families or naive hobby investors. My post was intended to open the eyes of some people who believe in "risk free" profits when buying 3 apartments with 10% money down while dreaming nothing can go wrong. After signing contracts they already take on a 5 year lease for a brandnew SL500 with yet-to-be-made profits on the real estate. Nothing in the world is free, especially not risk-free.

Your point about leverage is valid. Two things:

- You can use leverage for stock market investments. 75% of the hedge funds use controlled leverage.
- Leverage can work _FOR_ you (if your speculation works out), or _AGAINST_ you. People talk about leverage as a magical tool that always ten-folds their profits and minimizes their own risks because "it's the banks money". Yes, it can work that way. However, it can also burn your money ten times as fast. Never forget that.

man invest that cash in some real business!

In my country you can buy 2 big Volvo/Mercedes trucks that will make you together about 10k$ a month each! thats 120k a year per truck!

You can also get OMV oil pump to manage for 1/4 of that money and you have % of everything sold on it.

Thats where the money is...
Fuck banks - invest in real business

You have to be careful of the business, but generally speaking, business is by far the top way to make profits.

nice :thumbsup

all the mutual and hedge funds, they do good only as long as economy does good, so beware

I too have been looking where to put my money

which country is that?

Around here the "online" accounts are very competitive, some places are paying rates past 6%. The "normal" banks have also come to the party recently with high interest bearing accounts that can be accessed via an ATM. ING started it but they are no longer the leader. :)

(Note that while 6% return in a bank account sounds pretty good we're typically paying 6.75%+ interest on home loans.....)

another bump

I buy commercial real estate. Put an offer out today. The threat of rising rates is a real deal killer. Rates go to 10% and all real property with be worth a lower value. Especially commercial property. It is based on Income and cap rate. Cap rate is interest rate sensitive.

If you are not the type to do the leg work on buildings etc. A sp500 mutual fund is great right now. The market looks to go higher here and is doing fine. Low fees, very low risk and has averaged about 10% for the last 100 years.

Lower the risk by putting 1/2 in today and half in 6 months. repeat as you generate more excess cash. If the internet ever dries up for you, you will have all kinds of time to do something else with that cash.

:thumbsup

Holy Shit! This is a funny one.

300,000 surfers got sucked into a "get paid to surf" scheme to make a 44% return in 12 days. The company took in over $50 Million using StormPay.com.

SEC just shut them down.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Full Story Link:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060228/...N5bnN1YmNhdA--

brazilian treasury bonds, fucking high interest at 17.25% per year

Real Estate.

Very true, if for example you put down 100k and buy some real estate worth 1 million, and then the price of that real estate drops by 10% (far from impossible) you will be left with ZERO equity, and if shit turns bad, and the prices drop by 15%, you will end up owing 50k...

Not to mention you paid to buy that property and will pay to sell it again.

wow
do you have more info?

bumpbump

if you buy quality commercial properties with a cap rate over 10% you will be cash flow positive even if interest rates rise -- so over the long term you will be ok

Real estate should not usually be looked at as a speculative short term venture

invest in concerts.

book a TRL band on MTV for an 8000 capacity venue.

spend 10k in radio advertisements (they do all the legwork), 100k for the talent (thats on the high end), ~20k for venue + equipment.

charge 25-35 a ticket

150k profit, in 3 month's from planning to execution, no work, minimal risk.

good info boys
good info

Vegas Airport Municipal Bonds. I think they are paying closeot 6% non taxable. Accoridng to the Rule of 72 that means you would be doubling your money every 12 years with taxes.

ok invest it in the stockmarket

Aww, come on. You know you had an AllAdvantage surf bar on.