They can't filter it all, even more so when the people posting know about filters and do things to be sure they beat the filters.

However, they only have to "try" and filter the content.

Not necessarily true.

I didn't think I was affected by this issue, and I have my hands really full with other things, so I had reserved judgement on the issue. Then, last night, I did a search and found almost my entire member's area..not from my current paysite, but from my old AVS site. So, clearly I needed to give the issue higher priority.

I slept on it, and I decided to contact Kathleen about it. I asked about removing my content, and she not only did it immediately, but she blocked the main search term associated with my content. She was prompt, professional, and wonderful to deal with.

Now, of course I hate the idea of my content being out there for free..but the fact is, it is *still* out there. removing the images from Guba does not remove them from the newsgroups. So I have a few options..I can police the newsgroups myself, use DRM on my content, or pay/reward someone to police the groups for me. I am a single mom to three, and to be honest, I don't think I can cram much more work into my day...certainly not the amount of work it takes to police the newsgroups. DRM is a possible solution, but I know that it will likely affect my retention, and that will affect the affiliates that are counting on me to ffer their traffic a product that they will want, and want to keep...so it's not an easy decision there. That leaves the third option, which is what I've decided.

I can post a sample here and there myself on the newsgroups-just like I do pic posts and such, and I can add that if anyone reports unauthorized pics of me being posted, I will give them a short-term free membership. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. But I feel it's a more proactive approach then complaining. Your content being on Guba is a symptom of a deeper rooted disease that only YOU can solve. It's your content, so protect it at the root of the problem, or use the problem to your advantage by releasing teaser content yourself, and/or working closely with Guba to ensure only authorized content is in their database/system (they've proven to me, at least, a willingness to do so)...people who have joined Guba have proven they will buy memberships. Turn lemons into lemonade and use that to your advantage.

I do really understand why so many of you are pissed...I hope it doesn't sound like I am dismissing your concerns. But the fact is, they are within the law, and you can either complain and stomp your foot about it, or do something about it. I choose to take action, and to work the system to my own advantage.:2 cents:

Nice post... Can't really solve content theft though with pictures though when people join your site and just rip it.

Guba is nothing really, message board rippers are WAY worse. They rip your entire members areas, every picture, every video, every udpate, and post it on locked boards. However, both do make sales.

i smell a new business model.

I really don't think you do.

For whatever reason and however you did it, you rationalized the need to check and contact a commercial site before its operators would remove links to content which they have to know is copyrighted. That they do not host the content itself is in this context irrelevant: they base their entire business on easing access to content which you and others paid for, and compete with you not only for sales but also for affiliates.

Just because the law may not have caught up with technology and just because it likely isn't worthwhile chasing individuals who pass your content around, should not make for complacency towards those who build their businesses this way. And it doesn't matter whether someone is a sponsor, a content producer, or an affiliate, the nature of this business is such that most of us will always make our money promoting legitimate content. As such, we are damaged by the likes of Guba and even if we cannot stop their activities, it is short-sighted in the extreme to support them or excuse them in any way.

Well said, although I quite disagree with the bulk of it.

Again, this solution places the onus on us as content producers to proactively police our own content - at our expense. It puts the burden of responsibility on the victim and seeks to lessen or absolve the perpetrator of the infringement and wrongful redistribution of copyrighted intellectual property.

I am glad to hear you were able to reach an amicable solution for yourself through your contact with this organization. Unfortunately, after 10 years of production that includes upwards of 60-70k pics with a wide variety of filenames, sets and series in many different genres and categories - it would be next-do impossible for us to establish the extent of our content on Guba in a similiar manner. Our images have been posted and reposted on Usenet for nearly a decade by others. The logistics simply make it an impossible task to track.

And you are in error about them being "within the law". Although I'm not a lawyer, I've had many years of dealing with copyright laws and issues through our own company lawyers. Years ago I also ran a Yahoo discussion group that dealt primarily with copyright issues relating to the adult industry and several of our contributing group members were copyright attorneys at the time.

I didn't expect anyone to agree with me, really, but I felt that I had the right to express how I feel about the situation after finding out how it affected me personally. I always try to find a way to make the way things are work for me, and I've done that. I hope all of you are able to find a solution for you, too.

I have always felt that it is my own responsibility to ensure my content stays where it is supposed to be. I wouldn't think twice of contacting someone's host who was using stolen pictures, and I don't see this as anything different...when I find unauthorized use, I take action against it. It's my content, not the hosts's..it's my content, not Guba's..so it's my job to police it. I guess your perspective is very different. I respect that, but I don't have to change mine to match yours.

The assumption by Guba is "it's in the public domain unless you prove me that it isn't". This flies in the face of all logic. We as an industry wouldn't tolerate it from some ignorant person trying to start a paysite with stolen content, and there is no reason to allow this to fly with anyone else.

Further, Guba flies in the face of 2257 - they are exactly the sort of place that the new 2257 rules were intended to squash. They cannot indentify any of the primary producers for the images presented on their site and located on their servers, therefore by logic, they are primary unless they can show otherwise. They wouldn't face this issue as a "pass through ISP" provided just access to the usenet, but because they choose to filter, classify, edit, and re-encode what is on their site, they are no longer just an innocent ISP but in fact a membership site selling access to images and video.

The FSC could do our industry a HUGE favor and suggest that the DoJ go have a closer look at GUBA and their business model. There would have to be millions of undocumented images on their servers, and they have no way to show that they are not the primary producers.

Alex

Well isn't Guba doing the same thing as fusker is doing? Fusker harvests off websites where as Guba harvests off of newsgroups.

Gary

50 stolen posts

Chase, how did you feel seeing all your content there, knowing you didn't make a cent from it, and knowing other webmasters were earning money by promoting YOUR content while you made absolutely nothing?

no guba is not within the law

they are breaking copyright laws no matter what bullshit they say or any other ill-informed asshole blabbers on this board.

- unless guba has permission from or have licensing agreements with the producers of videos/pics/music listed on their site, they are breaking many laws.

why do you think they remove files when asked?

because they didnt have agreements- permissions - licensing to have them on their site in the first place.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh


you're fucking awesome man!!!!!

BTW, everything i have been saying since the skin went up, came down and to current is true. they think that all of you are going to forget and attempt to re-run the skin in march. me thinky wrong.

I find it a bit odd that there are soooo many threads about this now...

Guba has been brought up in the past in a thread or two, and a few comments about them stealing content... then the threads went by the typical wayside..

Now all of a sudden because they skinned the board they are some wretched evil players in the industry..

Don't know why people didn't rise up in the past... It was Guba then just as it is Guba now.. Doing the same things then as they are doing now..

Why all of the hooplah now over it has be a bit confused...

I was shocked, really. I'm sooo small time that I didn't expect to be affected.

But it's not the first time I've come across this. I've had my content taken and put on paysites, Yahoo groups, eBay auctions, etc. before..I belong to a board of BBW amateurs and it's probably the hottest topic there-we all keep our eyes open for each others' content on paysites, Yahoo groups, eBay auctions, etc. And when we find unauthorized use, we take action. No one does it for us...the hosting companies don't police for our content..Yahoo doesn't do it..eBay doesn't do it, so it's up to us. When we find it, we take action to get it removed, and I guess I just see this as the same thing. I found it, I took action, and it was removed.

But the fact remains that while my content is not on Guba anymore, it is still on the newsgroups, and I think that is the problem that should be tackled. If I protect my content at the root-on my site-then Guba having my content won't be a problem; neither will forums having it, or Yahoo groups, or eBay auctions, or paysites, or anyone else that I don't authorize use to.

I don't see Guba as the problem. I see the problem being my own ignorance and inaction with regard to protecting and controlling my own content. Now I've identified the problem, and I am going to solve it the best I can. I made my post based on my own experience with this situation, and I don't expect anyone else to see things the way I do. I just wanted to put my two cents and my own experiences in the pot since so many others were. It is clear I am very much in the minority, and that's fine. I respect the opinions that vary from my own..I understand the frustration. I choose to change the things I can, and make the things I can't change work for me. Maybe others take a different path to solving the problem. That's up to them. All I can do is what makes sense to me, and what I think is best for me and my business, and that's what I did and am doing.



With regard to my statement of them being within the law..if they are not, then why do folks keep talking about loopholes being the reason they are allowed to operate as they do? I made my statement based on the fact that no one has been able to cease their operations. Perhaps it's an incorrect conclusion to draw, but that is why I made that deduction.

Chase, it doesn't matter how much you "protect" your content on your site, one member copies your entire site, dumps it on the newsgroups,and you are back in the same point.

Alex

This guba shit has been the funniest thing to me in a long time. Not only do most of the posters I usually agree with side on teh bitching side of the fence, there have been several that I have argued with on other points take my side on this. Pure entertainment and I agree with this post 100%. :thumbsup

So DRM wouldn't keep my images from being used elsewhere?

I am aware that is possible without DRM, and that is why I am going to be watching the newsgroups, and I'm going to be active in them myself, and post my own samples, and let folks know that if they report any pics posted that I didn't post, I will reward them. Is it a foolproof approach? Hell no, of course not. But it's better then bitching on GFY, but doing nothing, isn't it?

It's all in the approach. I had a major life crisis over the last year, and a lot of changes. I learned that I can only control ME, and it's changed my approach to life from the focus being on what others do, to what I do. I can't change UseNet from allowing my content to be posted. I can't change the people who join and take all my content. What I CAN do is what I've detailed above, and that is what I will do.

You act like their sitting in the GUBA offices with 54 videos and 200 pics on a server. There are fucking millions and to think any person, company, corporation, country could regulate out all of the copyrighted shit you are crazy.

And you obviously have never heard of due diligence...

When it's in a Yahoo group, is there an affiliate program where scummy, skanky webmasters are earning a whopping seven bucks for each signup and rebills?

When being sold on eBay, is there an affiliate program where scummy, skanky webmasters are earning a whopping seven bucks for each signup and rebills?

How much money did you lose, Chase, because folks like GUBA allow webmasters to use YOUR content to promote THEIR site?