PROGRAMMERS...a little shop talk, if you will... - GoFuckYourself.com

2HousePlague · 02-16-2006, 11:51 PM

Do you work best with a tight spec? By that I mean, the *method* of the function is described.

Or do you like it better when just the end result is specified (input > your contribution > output)?

Ice · 02-16-2006, 11:53 PM

tight spec.... because the end result will be defined by it

skinnay · 02-16-2006, 11:57 PM

as long as i can be covered in peanut butter while i masturbate at my keyboard it doesnt matter to me. more specifications are always better as long as they're done right. if not its probably better to let a programmer do what he wants

Linguist · 02-16-2006, 11:59 PM

(input > your contribution > output) generally costs more. It takes time to take requirements and come up with feasible specifications.

If specifications are there then you just code away without caring about any of the design issues.

Edit: As for the preference, I prefer the first option because there's more creativity involved... but it would cost more for the client of course

High Plains Drifter · 02-17-2006, 12:07 AM

I prefer to work from a desired feature set and nothing more.

*edit* this isn't usual, btw.

SilverTab · 02-17-2006, 12:11 AM

Well I like to have some details about the work...it helps make the script better...however, some people are just exagerating LOL...I did a script for someone and he was so picky...took like 3x the times it should've taken...and in the end it just isn't worth my time since I didn't charged him much more...

he kept asking me to recode some parts...even AFTER he told me he wanted'em that or that way...

Spider Ninja · 02-17-2006, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2HousePlague

Do you work best with a tight spec? By that I mean, the *method* of the function is described.

Or do you like it better when just the end result is specified (input > your contribution > output)?

you got to let the data find what it is looking for

plus, translation from client to code is always an art form

quantum-x · 02-17-2006, 01:42 AM

I get the client to provide me with a dot point list of what they want, as specifically and comprehensively as possible.

I'll give it a quick look over, to make sure it makes sense, quote off that, and work off that.

When you get to the end - there's no argument about work done if you've worked off a 50 point list as opposed to 'make me a program that does X'

Haydos · 02-17-2006, 05:11 AM

My programmers use this quote a lot...

'I am not a fukn designer...!"

so i guess they like to have specs upfront

Due · 02-17-2006, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haydos

My programmers use this quote a lot...

'I am not a fukn designer...!"

so i guess they like to have specs upfront

He is a good programmer then

If you buy a custom script and it is design wise awesome looking, then you know the backend is crap and they are trying to hide it with a fancy design, if it looks like shit then you know it will have a killer backend

Unless you buy it from a bigger company that have both designers and programmers, then everything will be shit since they cant work together

everestcash · 02-17-2006, 06:26 AM

i define my own specs

StuartD · 02-17-2006, 06:30 AM

99% of the time, the client has no idea what they really want. They have a concept.... but once they start to see the finish line, their head starts to swim with all kinds of new ideas as to how to make it even better or different.

I've met very few non programmers who knew every single thing they wanted with a script right from the start.

Napolean · 02-17-2006, 07:38 AM

tight spec.. if it isnt right.. clients fault, I wouldnt work for anyone who's just going to waste my time, recoding the same things over and over.

Maybe thats why I dont take clients at all anymore

SilverTab · 02-17-2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haydos

My programmers use this quote a lot...

'I am not a fukn designer...!"

so i guess they like to have specs upfront

thank god im not the only one LOL...people are often confused between the 2 apparently...a lot of people contact me with like half a design, and they want a complete solution, so half of the work I have to do is messing with the design...

Spider Ninja · 02-19-2006, 12:14 PM

yeah, half the work is figuring out what people want

WarChild · 02-19-2006, 12:19 PM

Never really liked programming in the long term. Ended up as Project Manager with a team of programmers, and well, you're all fucked.

Spider Ninja · 02-19-2006, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

Never really liked programming in the long term. Ended up as Project Manager with a team of programmers, and well, you're all fucked.

that's exactly what I'm doing

WarChild · 02-19-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spider Ninja

that's exactly what I'm doing

Try to switch them to Diet Dr. Pepper and they'll keep longer on the shelf. Getting them to exercise is a near certain impossibility, but doesn't hurt to try that too.

Varius · 02-19-2006, 12:46 PM

I think it depends on the coder(s).

For example, if you are outsourcing something to an offshore company, you definately want to have strict specifications. Leaving them room for 'creativity' will only lead to delays, problems and more time/money spent.

On the flip side, if you have an experienced coder in-house, it might take more time to draw up the specs than to actually have him code the project based on a simple discussion.

Also, it is often impossible for the client/project manager to come up with fully detailed technical specs unless they have a deep technical expertise. They might know what they want, maybe in what language and what database, etc...but they won't consider all the intricate details that come up which will lead to a need to go against the specs.

I hate documentation/specs. However I know for a fact that they are sometimes the best option (for example, with Tico programmers ;p). That's my

Fo you PHP guys, my tip of the day is to use Smarty. Once you get used to it you will LOVE it and its vast array of advantages/benefits.

02-16-2006, 11:51 PM	#1
2HousePlague CURATOR Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: the attic Posts: 14,572	PROGRAMMERS...a little shop talk, if you will... Do you work best with a tight spec? By that I mean, the method of the function is described. Or do you like it better when just the end result is specified (input > your contribution > output)? __________________ tada!

02-16-2006, 11:53 PM	#2
Ice Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunny California Posts: 26,053	tight spec.... because the end result will be defined by it __________________ icq 1904905

02-16-2006, 11:59 PM	#4
Linguist Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 1,706	(input > your contribution > output) generally costs more. It takes time to take requirements and come up with feasible specifications. If specifications are there then you just code away without caring about any of the design issues. Edit: As for the preference, I prefer the first option because there's more creativity involved... but it would cost more for the client of course Last edited by Linguist; 02-17-2006 at 12:00 AM..

02-17-2006, 12:07 AM	#5
High Plains Drifter Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ♠ ♣ ♥ Posts: 2,341	I prefer to work from a desired feature set and nothing more. edit this isn't usual, btw. __________________

02-17-2006, 12:11 AM	#6
SilverTab Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: MTL Posts: 5,060	Well I like to have some details about the work...it helps make the script better...however, some people are just exagerating LOL...I did a script for someone and he was so picky...took like 3x the times it should've taken...and in the end it just isn't worth my time since I didn't charged him much more... he kept asking me to recode some parts...even AFTER he told me he wanted'em that or that way... __________________ mmm my sig was too big... no more cool animation but hey still! need php? ICQ: 94586959

02-16-2006, 11:57 PM	#3
skinnay Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NEW YORK CITY Posts: 2,274	as long as i can be covered in peanut butter while i masturbate at my keyboard it doesnt matter to me. more specifications are always better as long as they're done right. if not its probably better to let a programmer do what he wants

02-17-2006, 01:42 AM	#8
quantum-x Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ICQ: 251425 Fr/Au/Ca Posts: 6,863	I get the client to provide me with a dot point list of what they want, as specifically and comprehensively as possible. I'll give it a quick look over, to make sure it makes sense, quote off that, and work off that. When you get to the end - there's no argument about work done if you've worked off a 50 point list as opposed to 'make me a program that does X' __________________ PrettyInCash.com - BoozedGFs.com - TeenGFs.com - JizzGFs.com- MilfUploads.com -

02-17-2006, 05:11 AM	#9
Haydos Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Under Posts: 308	My programmers use this quote a lot... 'I am not a fukn designer...!" so i guess they like to have specs upfront __________________

02-17-2006, 06:26 AM	#11
everestcash Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 2,194	i define my own specs __________________ Got solo girls/teen traffic? Promote our exclusive solo girl sites and boost your income!

02-17-2006, 06:30 AM	#12
StuartD Sofa King Band Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Outside the box Posts: 29,903	99% of the time, the client has no idea what they really want. They have a concept.... but once they start to see the finish line, their head starts to swim with all kinds of new ideas as to how to make it even better or different. I've met very few non programmers who knew every single thing they wanted with a script right from the start. __________________ This is me on facebook This is me on twitter

02-17-2006, 07:38 AM	#13
Napolean Old school Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kettering, OH Posts: 4,327	tight spec.. if it isnt right.. clients fault, I wouldnt work for anyone who's just going to waste my time, recoding the same things over and over. Maybe thats why I dont take clients at all anymore __________________ Need a programmer? (Desktop/Web Applications) --- Skype: napoleande

02-19-2006, 12:14 PM	#15
Spider Ninja Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NYC ICQ: 320970274 Posts: 2,051	yeah, half the work is figuring out what people want

02-19-2006, 12:19 PM	#16
WarChild Let slip the dogs of war. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bermuda Posts: 17,263	Never really liked programming in the long term. Ended up as Project Manager with a team of programmers, and well, you're all fucked. __________________ .

02-19-2006, 12:46 PM	#19
Varius Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 6,890	I think it depends on the coder(s). For example, if you are outsourcing something to an offshore company, you definately want to have strict specifications. Leaving them room for 'creativity' will only lead to delays, problems and more time/money spent. On the flip side, if you have an experienced coder in-house, it might take more time to draw up the specs than to actually have him code the project based on a simple discussion. Also, it is often impossible for the client/project manager to come up with fully detailed technical specs unless they have a deep technical expertise. They might know what they want, maybe in what language and what database, etc...but they won't consider all the intricate details that come up which will lead to a need to go against the specs. I hate documentation/specs. However I know for a fact that they are sometimes the best option (for example, with Tico programmers ;p). That's my Fo you PHP guys, my tip of the day is to use Smarty. Once you get used to it you will LOVE it and its vast array of advantages/benefits. __________________ Skype variuscr - Email varius AT gmail