that really sucks S2O but you can't do anything about it now.

Uhmm, so probably some of the scammers out there uses this "technique".. Pay some clueless Epass Acct User then after he gets what he wanted. Report the card as stolen.. Then presto! He'll get his money back..

Now that sounds like I will completely should erase Epass in my vocabulary too. lol

How easyis it to hack Epassporte accounts? Are thy actually hacking them or isit people flling up the accounts with money from stolen credit cards? I thought you could only fund an Epassporte account via a bank draft?

I think avoiding Epassporte as a payment option based on this experience sets a bad precedent for you. I would honestly continue to use them, however I would assess who, when and where via my own instinctual filters.

Do you think they have more fraud than Ebay, Paypal or retail vendors? I doubt it and I would hesitate to say that if you stop using them for basic fraud, you will need to cease usage of many retail / payment portals.

Just my 2 cents though.

Good Luck with it,

Cory.

I disagree.
Banks take a loss because it costs them money to process the transaction reversals and to credit money back to your account.

They don't usually "eat" the charges though. Obviously if someone bought goods with a stolen credit card, the merchant in question didn't check the ID of the purchaser, and therefore they are liable for the charge.
The bank takes the money back from the merchant and gives it back to you.

They don't just say "damn, someone got their card stolen again so let's put up 1K of our money to make it right"

One time I bought some spoiled milk from a grocery store. Since then I've avoided all dairy products and grocery stores altogether.

Fuck them :1orglaugh

Is your bank any different?

Take my bank - Bank of America as an example.

A sponsor sends a check. This time is was a little over $500 on a bank in Canada, I'm in the states.

Ten days later the check bounces and funds are withdrawn from my account plus a fee for what wasn't my error. Should Bank of America eat the $500? The SOBs didn't email, call, mail or anything. Now if that took the account into the red, I would have been hit for $30 for every check that didn't clear from me. That's even if I had other accounts at the same bank to cover all checks.

In today's world of electronic banking, a check can bounce back and forth rapidly and rack-up a tidy profit for the bank before they graciously give up on it.

I had enough funds in the account and didn't suffer more than the $500. The sponsor BTW is express mailing a replacement check and has offered to pay any bank penalties.

Would you have expected BOA to cover the $500? Years ago in a small town bank, I would have gotten a phone call from accounting pointing out what happened. Those days are long gone.

What if the bounce was a $20K check? You needed half of that to cover your expenses on the project. Say to pay for contract workers. You paid them, money is gone cause they are all local. Now what? Just food for thought.

i hate morons

There are different ways to gain access to other peoples account, we all got the phishing emails, know about trojans and so on.
When accounts are involved in fraud or receive a fraudulent transfer they are suspended for a reason.
Like all electronic payment system ePassporte receives its share of attempted fraud. All fraud attempts are investigated and measures to prevent it in the future are taken.

ePassporte is not a credit card so you can compare the two.

Morons feel the same about you -- idiot. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

You work in the adult industry, right?

When someone charges back it's the merchant that cops the fund reversal, along with an arbitrary chargeback fee as a further kick in the teeth.

I'm sure there are cases where banks lose money due to fraud, but certainly not when it's a CC purchase and the merchant is still processing with them!

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A credit card prolly would have covered the loss or a least put a limit on it.

Epass has problems but you certainly can't blame them for this and your attitude shows you have a HUGE amount to learn about the Internet and card payments generally. :2 cents: What a very stupid thread.

lol
 

..................

Personally, i would blame the brunt of this on the person that sent you the money. Basically, you didn't get your money from the guy cause he didn't have it. He send you a check, it bounces. Epass get sent back. Either way same result

Actually, some of the blame *can* go to epass. They make it very difficult for the receipient of a payment to determine if the charge is made from a fraudulent credit card.

For example, my credit card processor tells me the name, address, phone number, and IP of the person making the charge. I can cross reference this to the info I already know about my customer to make a pretty good determination if the charge is valid or not (not to mention the CC company does their own scrubbing and checking).

Epass provides me with *only* the nickname of the account; no name, address or IP. I have *no* other info from epass. This makes it that much more difficult to me to detect fraud.

In fact, in two instances in the past month, *I* have told epass that they probably have a fraudlent account holder in their system (I detected the fraud, not epass!)

All I'm asking for is more info from epass if they are going to put the onus on me to eat any fraud within their system.

new regulations state that ID's DO NOT have to be shown for credit card transactions

merchants do not need to ask for ID anymore...sad,but true

not true...check the new debit card regulations that just went into effect last year for retail merchants. credit cards do not have to accompany an ID when being used.this includes debit cards used as a credit card

when a debit card is stolen and used, the merchant is notified and asked to return the funds, this is OPTIONAL (i learned this just recently)...retail stores do not have to return funds, therefor if they don't the bank loses out on that money....this is for a debit card of course, and I should have said that to begin with....but with a debit card, the bank loses the money

ii should have said debit card, sorry

well epass is not a bank so lets clear that up right away.
Third , this doesnt sound like a "chargeback" in my opinion.

The illegal charge was loading the epass not transferring it so if a chargeback occurs its epass who loses the money , they are just adding their own "internal" chargebackk..

If customer A went into a bank and cashed a cheque that was fraud or bounced , then used the money in his account to send you a check that cleared , they cant simply take that money out of the third parties account..

That being said i should remind you epass is not a bank

epassporte should look into this, this can happen to anyone. hope the client knows about this and have the guts to stand out

you would think the 'verified by visa' thing would work but i guess not. apparently there is a lot of fraud coming from epass, or so i hear. when i first started using it i had my bank calling me asking if i made those transactions because they get a lot of complaints with stolen cards and epass. im sure the same could be said for paypal but they never called and asked about that for whatever reason.

epass does need to get its act together, I will have to say that. however, in this case epass had a right to remove the funds from your account and as someone said prior, probably did send you an epass email about it, not an email to your normal email account.

Last month I held a design contest for logos for Baked, World Wide Weed, and MedPot ... anyways, when it came to paying the numerous winners, a few insisted on Epass ...

So after some hessistation I go over to Epass to register and get through the whole registration process ... then Epass requires me to signup with and use Verified by Visa ... at that point, I aborted the Epass signup process... a few people thought I was being difficult by not using epass, but as I explained then, and will explain now ...

Verified by Visa shifts much of the liability from the merchant to the card holder.

After seeing how easy it is for scammers to get lists of card numbers, name, etc along with the correct CVV2 numbers ... it's not much of a stretch to believe they can likely get Verified by Visa passwords too.

Ron

Well, I think we NEED TO learn that epass should only be used for transactions from customers that you know and trust.

It SHOULD NOT be used as an open available option for everyday transactions.

If you are a merchant this is good, no? How many merchants get scamed by people who buy shit then say later thier card was "stolen"?

Also you don't have to use "Verified by Visa" to get a epass account.

I don't really see how this is your responsible. I don't use epass much, but from my experience, you don't make purchases through epass with a CC...you 'load' your account, and then send that money to someone else. The CC has nothing to do with you. Epass received the 'stolen' money. They verified it and deposited the money in the scammer's account. That money could have gone to any number of people. It sounds like they screwed up and want to find someone else to pay back the money. Someone please enlighten me if I'm completely wrong in my understanding of epass...

the charge back is ok.. but they should have told you, maybe trough their email system.

Say I go to wal-mart get a $20 bill back in change I take that $20 to the bank for deposit and they come back and say it's fake. Is the bank going after wal-mart? No. Is the bank going to put $20 in my account? no. Is wal-mart going to give me a real $20? No.

i think thats all he was trying to say.. :2 cents:

Most scammers load an epass account using a stolen credit card. I think it's epass's responsibility in this case, not the recipient's.

There are different ways to send a fraudulent transfer, from an account loaded via a stolen CC is just one of them.
If an account holder receives a fraudulent transfer the money will be taken out of the account.
If you in your bank account deposit a check that bounces, deposit counterfeit money or in any other way receives money that are fraudulent the money is taken out of your account.

Paypal and any other ewallet compagnies would have handled it the same way for virtual work. Some of thoses compagnies offer an "insurance" policy if it's a tangible good, but for any virtual item, it's mostly instant refound.

I suggest you should go agaisn't the webmaster.

Well PP dosen't accept adult... so that's why epass is taken as #1 in our industry. We all agree that paypal is a better service.

I've had to eat 1500 from paypal once... shit happens

Chgances are it'S friendly fraud, and he reported his card stolen or something

Shhhh. don't baffle all these idiots with facts, let them keep giving epass a lapdance. its funny. also, banks generally are insured against the fraud losses.

Hmmm...some interesting stories and comments here. I'm not exactly sure how Epass works but here's some food for thought:

1. Is Epassport really the right medium for B2B transactions considering the amounts involved and one must "load" their account (possibly with a stolen cc)? - wouldn't a bank transfer/cashiers check be better?

2. Let's say the person "loaded" their account with $1000 - Epass gets a pre-auth for the full $1000 which is the available balance at the time - other charges come through before Epass can acquire the money which depletes the available credit on the card - when Epass tries to acquire the $469 they get a decline.

3. Let's say that the "loader" had transfered lots of little payments to other customers and instead of dinging the smaller customers Epass dinged the one account that would cover the $469 NSF. (no bashing here, just information gathering)

4. What info does Epass require from account holders?

5. Is the *fraudulent* Epass account still active?

6. In this context I agree with the "knowing your customers" considering the amount - can't you ask for some sort of ID (e.g., fax drivers license, phone bill, etc.) from the transferer before accepting their Epass payment?

7. I agree on one other thing, you should recieve an email if a transaction is reversed for NSF, chargeback, refund, fraud, dispute, etc. (not bashing here either, as someone said they do send it.)

8. Finally, banks are indeed not loosing money! - They are just trying to figure out how to make more! a la Verified by Visa/MC Secure, Visa/MC regs, PCI Compliance, etc.

:2 cents:

There's no real easy solution for this.

If epass used some of their (hefty) loading fees to cover CC fraud and allow the recipient of fraudulently loaded funds to keep them, the policy would no doubt be exploited by scammers. I'm sure there are already plenty of situations where CC loaded funds have been withdrawn before it's discovered that the transaction is fraudulent.

Don't know how to break it to you, but that is the standard. Paypal does the exact same thing

Sorry Logan, but that is how Paypal does it too, trust me, I got screwed out of +$1,000 as a result of someone "selling" something on Ebay that was never received. The seller subsequently sent me money. Paypal took it away from me even though I had nothing to do with the transaction.

I would hope my bird is smarter than him

Ahh ok, that makes more sense then

I can't believe you guys are saying that epassporte shouldn't be at least partially responsible for this... Epassporte doesn't provide ANY means for the seller to verify how legitimate the buyer is... It wouldn't exactly be hard to add in a feature similar to paypal, where you can view some details about the seller (account creation date, verification status, number of successful transactions, perhaps even card holders country,etc) I'm sure a feature like this would reduce fraudulent transactions...

And we all know Paypal treats people fairly. ;)

So why do you penalize the victim by suspending their account and then they have to try for weeks to get it unblocked?

The losses are the reason these companies charge big ass fees. I damn sure wouldn't fuck my customers every time my anti-fraud measures fucked up. I'd give the amount back to the stolen card then persue charges against the person that defrauded the system. :upsidedow

I love my Epassporte!!!!!

I replied before I read page 2, of course Epass should eat some if not all of the amount. Of course THEY won't say that, and the big companies here have the sheep so brainwashed that they assume this is how it should be. IPSP's have the absolute worst customer service and business procedures of any business I have ever seen.

Even though that most of you guys is ok with what's Epass procedure with this kind of issue. It's just sound unfair that the "victim" will shoulder all the loss everytime Epassporte's authentication procedure fails.

They should implement a more secured procedure like letting the cc owner fax/email their documents, address, id's or even calling the bank or the person itself.

I don't want to think that this kind of situations are taken for granted coz everytime their authentication procedure fails, someone will shoulder the loss.. :Oh crap

I must admit that at the moment in the adult biz. Epass is the easiest way that you can use to transfer $ to another acct. Handy, until you're hit with situations like this that you'll suddenly realize that you're not "safe" with where you keep your money in.

:2 cents:

strange
but i have great problems with epass this week
most has been solved
but one not

one client

dave memory <[email protected]> b out a month ago ordered design
paid via epass
and after a month
epass found out that the transaction was fraud and take 250 from my cash
thats really sad
cause how can we work with epass
in such cases
clients will pay us cash
we willdo the work
and in the month epass will tell us cash is fraud and will take it out of our acounts :mad:


though i must say
all other problems that appeared after my account was suspended was solved with tthe help of Keyser Soze

the lesson if there is one of this thread ( and in general ) is...

Dont use epassporte for transferring money like it was a billing solution or an atm card.. treat it as if it were a check that has not cleared yet.

i.e. dont take epassporte payments for services from people you dont know , as you have no way of verifying if that account was loaded legit.

If the transaction was with PayPal you probably wouldn't have an account anymore.