LOL man you're just getting into semantics when you start talking about the whole family as if that's not what I'm talking about when I say that 100% of the income would go to taking care of them. My point is if they lived with you you'd be paying more than $300-$350 a month to take care of them..as I stated above that's what is required of my brother in law to pay and that just covers food for these kids and maybe 1 bill...but there are far more expenses than just food and 1 bill...there's clothing, there's health care, there's school expenses, not to mention putting one of them through nursing school, there's every day living expenses like toiletries, tampons and toilet paper for 2 females each month not cheap, letting them be girls by buying make up etc...the list goes on man...god I'd love for all of it to just cost me $350 a month for the two of them.

Taking care of them includes taking care of the family you dipshit...that includes a roof over the head...food..car...health care whatever.
And just because I did not state that it's taking care of the whole family too does not negate my point...nor prove yours.

A man could live alone on $18.5K per year if necessary to provide for his children.

I live in Vegas and my monthly nut is $2,500 = $30,000 a year for 4 of us...yeah I could live on $18.5K per year if I had to...it's called budgeting.

Very nice man, I commend you for doing what it takes.

Thank God the "morally superior" Donnie weighed in...

Try throwing that $2K/month around when you earn $4K pre-tax and then talk.

You all talk about your personal "dead-beat" dads while I watched mine go bankrupt sending court ordered checks he couldn't possibly afford.

If you have a problem with the way their dressed, buy them some fucking clothes and keep those clothes at YOUR house for those weekends...cuz I will bet you good money she is sending them over in their WORST possible clothes to pray on you.

I make far less than $240K a year man..which is exactly why I'm bitching...LOL

If that poor excuse for a man that is the father of my nieces would even pay just the $350 that would help...I've been shouldering this responsibility for far too long and could use it.

including your own expenses on top of what the child would use him or herself, thats just plain stupid in my opinion. you would have to clothe and feed and shelter yourself regardless or not if you had a child. why should i pay for my ex's rent or whatever else? if she lived with me it would be cheaper because we would be splitting the costs. i don't feel anyone should have to pay much more beyond what expenses the child actually causes.

if the mother doesn't have a good enough job to pay for her a place for her and her child, that mother shouldn't have the child. if babysitting is an issue, im sure thats something dads would be willing to spend money on, as it goes to the child but i'd sooner pay the babysitter/daycare directly myself so i know she isn't just leaving her with some idiot friend or sleepy elderly relative and pocketing the money.

:thumbsup

That's called being responsible Donny and maintaining a relationship all round with your children and the woman you married - despite she may no longer be part of a married relationship. She was good enough to be your wife - she is the same person now and why should she not be good enough to continue with an "amended relationship" with the mutual care of your children in mind?

Fathers never divorced their kids, - sounds like that's the area of confusion :winkwink:

That was those 2 years...I make less than half that now but it's STILL only 20% of my income. I stand by my statement that if a man can't figure out how to live on 80% of his income he needs to do something more with his life than flip burgers or drive a dump truck :2 cents:

I really have no problem with you eros and honestly commend what your doing (not that you need my commendation).

There are obviously cases where men should STFU and take care of there responsibilities. There are also obviously cases where men go bankrupt trying to do just that. -- and -- There are obviously cases where men are just the scum of the Earth.

All I'm saying is one size doesn't fit all and current divorce laws often try to fit a square peg in a round whole. If I ever find myself in a custody battle and lose, a court wouldn't have to order me to take care of my children.

And do you not realise what that is?
that would include your spouses rent, and utilites regardless of whether or not she would have to still shelter herself.

And those expenses do not end there. I dare you to try and take care of 1 child for only $350 a month, see how far that goes when you need to feed them, shelter them, clothe them, take them to the doctor.

Have you ever checked out the costs of daycare?
That alone can run you $70-$150 a week depending upon the age of the child etc.

So now you only have to pay $350-$400 a month for the child support and the mother is working a job and is still living at or just above the poverty line and all the money she makes including the child support go to just essentials are you going to pick up the slack when the kid needs braces?
Needs new school clothes, shoes.
Or when the kid wants to play an instrument in the band and you either have to rent or buy?
Or when the kid want to join the cub scounts and needs a uniform?
etc..etc.

No some of these things aren't essentials, but taking care of a kid doesn't end with just clothes food and shelter...but so many parents who pay child support seem to think so.

So at half you're STILL a top 1% wage earner...

Please stop trying to apply your situation to the general population.

Exactly right! Part of being a good father is continuing to love or at least be civil with the child's mother. Most people are too damned selfish to see that hating on the child's mother causes unnecessary stress for the CHILD. They love their mommy and need their daddy to care for their mommy too, know what I mean? So the two parents couldn't stay together for whatever reason... at least be ADULTS about it and be civil for the sake of your children...

When I first started paying child support, back in 1993, know how much it was? It was $34 a week...that was 20% of my income at the time.

I will forever stand by my statement...if a guy can't survive on 80% of his income he needs to become more...do more...create more...be more valuable to get paid more. I did and I am NOT exceptional in this regard

Buried in a ditch? ROFL, as if you've got balls enough to do a damn thing to anyone's face... though you sure do love to try and talk a big game and stir shit up on boards.

Face it, you're a complete and total joke and everyone knows that. As for your holier than thou comments regarding your ex, I'd be willing to bet she tells a different story.

you're assuming the person you divorced is a trustworthy and generally good person, like many have pointed out this isn't always the case and i can't imagine trusting an ex. i'd sooner pay out each expense and know where its going that give one lump sum and hope she is mother enough to offer her child the opportunities you listed. i'd be more than glad to pay for any extra curricular activies, medical bills, anything that has to do with my child.

350 is getting off way cheap, for sure but i don't think this is the average monthly amount for child support is it? i mean, if that is 10-30% of your income, the person must be pretty poor. i think more often than not people are paying 700-1000/month at least in child support.

the child only accounts for a percentage of the rent, a percentage of the utilities. would you not use heat if you didn't have a child living there? of course you would. the extra amount you'd need to heat a couple more rooms or rent a place with one or 2 more bedrooms does not account for entire amount spent. like i said if the mother is too broke to afford at least her percentage, something is wrong and she probably shouldn't have the kid or should at least do something about getting a better job. i don't care how much daycare costs either, i'd pay it. i don't care about this 350 lump sum being less, its about seeing where it goes and knowing my child is being taken care of.

Can't argue with that...

But obviously you know that not everyone is blessed with the intellegence to acutally do more.


I know I've been painted in this disucssion as "pro-deadbeat", but that couldn't be further from the truth. I'm pro-sensibilty -- every cent one can afford should go towards their kids...

Bringing your kids to the shetler for visitation weekends isn't all that appealing -- regardless of how many checks you send.

well it sounds like we've both had negative experiences from both sides of the spectrum...I understand where you're coming from now.

I think the bigger problem is men have trouble letting go of their "lifestyle" or "standard of living" at the time of their divorce/cessation of the relationship that bore the child(ren).

Personally, I found roommates...2 of them...to cut my living expenses to the bone. I sold my car that had a payment and bought a beater to get me around knowing that the moment I was living in was not a lifelong sentence. I let credit card payments lapse until I could increase my income/have the effects of cheaper living take hold. I learned how to eat off of $25 a week at the grocery store. I quit smoking...I quit buying a weekly 6-pack of beer. I made sacrifices. And yeah, I was pissed my ex was showing up to drop off my son dressed to the 9's. But the truth of the matter is she was forced into the workplace by the divorce. And while I KNOW the money that bought those nice duds came from my child support payments, without her having the nice duds my son WOULD have been living in squalor.

Sacrifices...that's what you do for your child(ren) whether you have custody of them or not. None of what I did took intelligence...it took putting things into perspective and making sacrifices which is what loving parents do -- they very often postpone their own needs and wants for the good of their child(ren) :2 cents:

Agreed.

That's what my father did (even though it drove him into bankruptcy and caused MAJOR problems when he remarried) and that's exactly what I would do.

After doing all that -- I don't think your choices should be bankruptcy, a shelter, or the streets, though. That's all I'm saying.

I know there are deadbeats and SELFISH people out there... most of them should be shot.

Exactly once again.

Not trying to sound like a martyr or saint, but I'm not these kids dad and I have had to sacrifice my wants to meet their needs on many occassions...not to mention my peace of mind taking on the added financial pressure..as well as becoming that guy that's bossing them around instead of the cool uncle who showed up on occassion and gave them presents and spoiled them.

I have a friend who pay child support, and he is getting fucked badly in my opinion. Not only does he pay her a nice chunk of change ($2k ish/month if I remember correctly) he has to pay for MANY additional expenses. Kid wants to go on a trip, or kid needs this or that, daddy has to pay for it cause mommy is broke. And the kid is not even living well at all, they live in some average at best apartment. I'm 100% sure that the kid is not even getting half of that $2k. So kid gets $1k, and mommy gets to piss away $1k on herself at daddy's expense.

I don't think a court anywhere will order a non-custodial parent to pay for a child's whims if mommy doesn't have the money. However, things like braces and college may be ordered...well -- they were for me LOL I am currently paying for my son's braces and saving for him to go to school...fortunately he wants to stay close to his mother and go to a community college as of now. Hope that doesn't change!

And seriously woj...if the mother refuses to work or can't find work due to some disability then 100% of your friend's $2,000 IS going to the child...mom is just getting to ride along for free. I think your friend's perspective is all wrong on the matter, though I will agree it'd piss me the hell off is she wasn't working and living off my back.

yeah tell that to p diddy.. paying out 50k a month to some bitch for her kid.

LOL that's a drop in the bucket for that man.
The guy is a multimillionaire, why shouldn't his kids experience the same quality of living he does?

god forbid you or you're employer accidently miss a payment and don't remember it. they'll be sure to remind you 10 years down the road after the interest has rolled over every 12 months for 10 years. then you get a nice little bill for 8-10 grand after you thought youve payed everything in full. its all about money the more they can take out of you're wages the more they're likely to make. its about business not the child. but go ahead and keep you're narrow minded views i can see its brought you a long way. oh i don't have children so please spare me the BS, i just know the system.

lol whatever man believe what you want.. its just ridiculous plain and simple. some child support is good in my opinion but 9 times out of 10 its just the lady getting the best of the man and the courts love it because it flows right into they're pocket also. :2 cents:

LOL I'm narrowminded?

spare me man.

My brother in law is in over his head about $40K. They have passed all these bullshit laws to get deadbeat parents to pay but yet the guy is still roaming the face of this planet has not spent one day in jail, maybe had a few months of wages garnished...oh but God forbid he can't get a hunting license in Texas :1orglaugh that's just so harsh.

This can all be settled with 4 words.

Cheaper to keep her.

yes imho

you have taken over , the kids dont need him financially , they have you.. why confuse the kids.. its not about who's to blame or who's right , its about doing whats best for the child

until they make equal rights for custody they should abolish child support

LOL that's the most retarded thing I have ever heard...sorry but not surprising coming from you. I become less and less impressed with your "wisdom" each day.

eroswebmaster:

Any ass who owes $40K in child support and can't even keep up with $350/month in child support needs dumping in jail to focus his mind.

Tolerance is good, - and, if there is genuine hardship and inability to pay, that's another matter. But abusers of tolerance need to learn the hard way.

They are not only abusing the carer of the child, but also the child.

I agree wholeheartedly.
The youngest is now 13 he's paid maybe 1 1/2 -2 years worth of child support...never has been to jail, and has had his wages garnished for less than a year during this whole time.

I think the harshest thing he has to worry about is not being able to get a hunting or fishing license...LOL

Men that don't pay child support are usually lazy and always have an excuse.

BUT NOT ALWAYS. SOMETIMES the dads really ARE unemployed or just plain broke.

HOWEVER, these doctors and lawyers and corporate types or these folks that are making good money who don't pay child support are just lazy losers who would rather spend their money on themselves than their children.

Yep..and as Webby was noticing above $350 a month in child support isn't shit.

The guy's in Texas...he could get a job making $300-$400 a week take home. Hell his daughter makes that here in Vegas now at her very first job ever.

Get a roomate or two, beater car that will get him to and from work and be able to pay this EASY!!!

Teens are the expensive years - don't ya know it? :winkwink:

The irony probably is that he will never ever pay that $40K. Once the track record has been established, people seem to have bad memories about money.

Assuming he has the ability to pay, - that's just too embarassing not paying your way to help your own kids and leaving others to do it.

[QUOTE=eroswebmaster] If the child lived with you 100% of your income would be going to their support. QUOTE]

That's simply not true.

I think he meant if the child lived with you 100% of its support would come from your income :2 cents:

You don't know the extent of it...and what set this all off.

The guy filed for disability...and got it. He said he has depression.

He recieved $28,000 in back pay in November his kids saw $100 and not one christmas present.

Did he have to pay back the child support? No...will he ever have to? I don't know.

Now because he's on disability the youngest niece will also recieve a check, not the oldest she's 19 now.

However they have held it off for 2 months because they need the divorce decree to show that my sister has full custody.

Her copy here in Vegas does not have a judges signature on it...and the thing is they have been contacting him trying to get this and not once did he ever tell us that's why they were holding up her getting paid. We could have done what we could to get that paperwork ourselves.

So when we found out about this, my sister asked him if he could just go down to the county offices to get this paperwork for her. He said NO. He would not help her.

I wish nothing but pure evil on this man's existence down there in Texas. He used to be a friend, we've known him for most of our lives, was one of the smartest people I had ever known...and to the extent he has become so stupid and quite honestly pathetic is amazing.

I know 3 women who get "child support" and not one of them spends that money on their child, and they on many occaisions joke about how they are going shopping because "their child support check just came"
:2 cents:

[QUOTE=Mogulman]Of course not 100% exactly..what I mean is that if it was required that you had to spend 100% of your income to provide them with the essentials then you would have to.

Sure part of that income goes to paying rent which you would have to pay anyway...but if you were single you could scale down and live in a smaller place etc..etc.

Let's not get into semantics here...the simple fact is if you are only paying 15-30% of your income in child support YOU ARE GETTING OUT CHEAP.

Yeah so let's just stop child support all together fuck the kids who didn't ask to be born.

A) If a father was living with the child 100% would NOT be going just for the child. Ever heard of rent, gas, utilities etc. Does 100% of YOUR income go just ONLY for your kid? Um no. You eat don't you? You wipe your ass with toilet paper don't you? If a father gave 100% of his income to his child where would he live, how would he eat and how would he get to work to give his child his money? Try THINKING before saying retarded shit.

By the way the mother should be contributing 50% of the finances toward the child. WTF is this shit that the father should pay 100%? What happened to EQUAL rights? Bitches want "equal" rights until it cost them then it's "Oh but I'm just a poor little weak woman". You can't have it both ways.

I have a friend who pays $450 a month for child support and then his ex-wife expects him to pay 100% of the cost of their kids medication. Let's not even mention that she makes well over 50% more income than he does PLUS gets teh child support. Oh in the summers where he gets them for 2 straight months he still has to send her child support and she sends him NOTHING. Real fair isn't it? When a father gets his kids on week-end does the mother send money to the father to help out? Um no.

B) As far as only mothers getting custody well I have custody of my son and had him for over 6 1/2 years. His mother is a literal meth whore and I get NOTHING have gotten nothing in all that time. $350 a month? Hell I'd be happy with $100 a month. At the bare minimum I'm owed at least $8000 so take your man hating attitude and fuck off.

#1 you cocksmoker I am a man.

#2 you guys want to get into semantics over this 100% issue...you simple minded tards can't see what I'm saying after 3 pages no sense in explaining it to you.

and #3 you simple minded fuckwit these kids are owed around $40K

Listen TARD you are the TARD. If a child lives with mom and dad then COMMON SENSE will tell you 50% of support should come from dad 50% from mom. It's 2006 not 1906.

Secondly I am a father with custody that doesn't get child support and I have a friend that doesn't have custody and has to pay it and is getting fucked over. So I have experience in BOTH sides of the issue. Do you even have kids? Let those that know something about the issue first hand and talk and you LISTEN.

enough said :thumbsup

IN California often the courts order the father to provide medical coverage.
Infact I think it is required at default come to think of it and is not figured into CS.
Its in addition to CS.

How much has Medical Coverage increased over the last few years?
Answer: AlOT

Imagine costs of a disabled kid, or something.
Brutal.

LOL you didn't even read the thread you fucking hack.

No I don't have kids...been taking care of these tho' for the last 11 + years without any help from their deadbeat dad...and I gurantee you I have tons more experience with the family court system that you will ever have.

And it doesn't matter if you have a two parent household, 100% of your income will go to providing the essentials for them if necessary...and for most people out there it does...yes that includes rent and utilities..that is PROVIDING FOR YOUR KIDS YOU DUMB FUCK.

If you are single, never married or divorced with no kids you can skimp on certain things.

You can be late on utility payments..who cares if the water gets shut off for a day no big whoop.

Partied too hard last week short on cash for groceries...ramen noodles it is.

Been there done all that shit...but when you add kids to the mix you can't or shouldn't do this.

Don't have kids you can get by living with roommates, or a single bedroom apartment..hell even an effeciency.

Have kids, you're gonna have to get more than one room. You might even have to get more than two...you now have to consider where you live..you can't go living in the ghetto because you want them to go to good schools..so your costs GO UP.

Why can't you nits figure this shit out for yourselves.

I'm done with you Gator..you're a fucking joke anyway

Once again man it's something you would have to pay for if they lived with you anyways...and then some.

So many dads think their responsibility ends with what the courts require..that's simply not the case.

Some courts may go overboard with the support..but for the most part in my experiences that's just not true...those who are left taking care of the child get the short end of the stick men or women.

Hell I keep saying 11+ years...the youngest is 13 will be 14 this month..I've been providing for these kids financially, or they've been living with me since she was 1.