no i don't, but i have every right to voice my opinion.

I wouldnt ask him to change a thing, his traffic does fine for me, and any other tgp traffic for that matter. It's only a matter of finding the sponsers that can convert that traffic into a sale.
:glugglug

I said it before: every paysite that sees the content of my site as competition has very shitty content. A free site could never come up to the quality of a good paysite. I doubt ARS has to fear competition from my site. In their site you have long series, video, everything you want, niches, a lot of series.

Someone once made a comparison between bars. He had a bar and I had one across the street giving the beer away. He asked who would go broke first. I told him we wound't go broke. In my bar people order a beer. If they're lucky I have the brand they like, but I'll be out of that brand after two or three glasses. On other nights I wouldn't have a certain brand at all. Some beer I give away is cold, but others are piss warm. But with every beer there's a little note: "like this beer? There's PLENTY more where this came from in the bar across the street. Sure, you'll have to pay, but they have unlimited supplies of what you want and it's served in a Jacuzzi".

I'm not competition if you look close at it, I'm a market place where paysites could offer their products. Nothing more, nothing less.

As far as the conversions go: people don't buy on the first click. They usually want to see if there's more out there. On my site people will click a banner and then click 'back' to view the galleries to see if there's anything like it they can get for free. If they are done viewing the galleries they'll go back to that banner to sign up if they want more. But they'll think again about clicking a banner if they had to reboot there machine to get rid of the consoles...

I do have a lot of visitors that never will sign up for a paysite, but I doubt very much if those people would have signed up if there was no free porn on the web... Luckily I still have a lot of people that do click the banners and do sign up. 'cause a statement like 'you'll get paid anyhow' is only partially valid. Sure, I get paid, but what's the continuity of my business if the people advertising on my site don't get their money's worth? We have a very good renewing ratio, so people must be making more than they pay me.

I cannot agree that TGPs are just offering free samples. A free sample is something you can use for a limited period of time and without having all the benefits of the entire product.
But in the case with tgps it definately doens't apply because if the surfer is interested in pics he can find the BEST pics ever by surfing the various TGPs and never pay a dime for them. If surfers would have been able to see only pics maximum 40 kb in size that would be a whole new story but look at today's tgps : they all require quality pics, series of pics, high res, fresh content all this shit ... why in the world would joe surfer join a paysite if the has the best pics at his disposal?

As for ARS not converting the way it used to my 3+ years experience sending traffic to various places tells me that it's IBILL's fault rather than ARS's. I am from Europe and I cannot buy anything thru ibill or ccbill because they say banks country (Cyprus) is high risk although I never chargebacked or misused my card in any way.
I am pretty sure this problem applies to a lot of people not just me.

When looking at sales ratios you have to take into consideration how accurately and completely they count your clicks.

ARS seems to count every banner click so the ratios don't look so good - other places don't count until second page so the ratios look great. All I know is I put the same # of ARS banners as someone else in my rotation and I end up making more from ARS. To really be accurate on your ratios you'll have to track your own clicks then compare them to sales.

do any other cc processors decline u because ur in europe or is it just those two?

Patrick - I agree with you on 'creating a marketplace'. What would be great is if you forced limitations and guidelines to the galleries posted in regards to nudity / penetration / etc... I would love to see more teasing pictures, something much less hardcore. The fact is you will get a guy horny by showing him Victoria's secret - leaves things open to the imagination that they want to FILL by purchasing hardcore stuff.

Get excited by Victoria's Secret, jerk off to Hustler :) If they jerk off 'too soon' then somebody misses out on a potential client.

I kinda doubt that pics are enough, more like get excited to hustler...then go rent a video.
:2 cents:

There may be more but about this 2 I know for sure. I can get my credit cards accepted with epoch and globill for example.

Using the same beer analogy ... If your only care is to get drunk and you have 2 choices one with free beer other with paid cognac you're pockets have to be real deep to choose the cognac.

movies and all other goodies a paysite adds don't really make an immediate difference. I remember 6+ years ago I could jerk off just fine watching just 10-20 pics from BBSes if they were hardcore enough so saying that pics don't satisfy the surfer doesn't really apply.

Sure you've got millions of visitors visiting your site daily and I respect you for that...but you built that on the backs of hard working wm's who provide your site with free content and bw day in and day out...and some who even pay you for the "honor" of getting placed in top spots.

There is no way a paysite could provide as much quality content on a daily basis as you do and still make a profit.

In the past 2 days I have received 2 rejection letters from you basically stating the same thing that my gallery was declined because I submitted a series you have seen before..that's fine that's part of the tgp game...but this part of your email is what gets me....
"I like to link to new pictures every time."

That's utter bullshit to expect new fresh content every single day and then to say that your site in no way competes with a paysite.

Sure you don't offer live feeds, and huge movies but quite honestly most guys don't need that to get off...they just want the money shot which is provided daily by a few of your top gallery posters.

I make pretty clean galleries at most 3 text links ..90% of the time 2 text links...

You actually declined this gallery because you said my adds were "huge"
http://www.teegeepee.com/madison/blu...ue-neglige.htm

I'm sorry I find this utterly ridiculous.

And don't give me some story about how you are only trying to provide your surfers with quality galleries because that is utter bullshit.

Just take a look at your top 10 sites and you'll see a lot more aggressive advertising than I am using.

This is in your #3 spot
http://www.free-porn-pics-and-xxx-vi.../thehun/02-02/

That is one butt ugly gallery.

And let's not forget you told the angry drunken scotchman in your debate a month or two ago that even paid spots had to follow your rules...I don't buy that.

If I had paid for a spot you would have accepted that gallery I had posted above and I think we all know that.

And for those who think I'm bitching only because I didn't get accepted...my galleries get accepted in fact I had back to back listings on his site last week.

Just accept that fact that you are having an adverse affect on this business.

No you're not the only tgp...just the biggest.

>> What about Maxcash...I get 1:90 for most of my sponsors but maxcash i send the same type of traffic and its like 1:2000...anyone do well with these guys?


I used to do well with them ages ago but now its kinda shit.. I think since the FTC thing too they upped their scrub or something.. still does ok on mailers and stuff but text links / exits is shit.. I like ARS now..


I don't know if too many people marketing a site is a bad thing because the more a surfer comes familiar with a site I think the more likely they are to buy.. if they see a ARS site like three times while they are surfing they might wanna signup the third time like they will think "hey everyone is saying this is a good site"
or be tempted to try it.. how many times do you like see something and think hmm maybe I'll buy that shit I'll check back later then forget ?

if they are sent back they will be like ahh this shit I was gonna have a think on this shit I'll join...

I dunno I'm just not sure cos everyones advertising them its a bad thing

just don't use banenrs with URL's on cos they might type it in

eroswebmaster. I don't know what your raving on about, but I never said I was the only TGP out there. Neither am I making money over the backs of others or making people believe it's an "honor" to be listed on my site. For your information: I do know my position. If you only read my webmaster page you can clearly read that gallery builders are the ones building my site. And that I'm collecting the URL's, and indeed watching a certain level of quality, but if you have got it all wrong if you think it's an "honor" to be listed on my site. That's utter bullshit. If I'm like that in your eyes than you're the one looking up to me. I never did anything to accomplish that. I'm not the slightest bit more than anybody here. Not the slightest bit less either though...

http://www.teegeepee.com/madison/blu...ue-neglige.htm would never be declined from my page. So I don't know where you have that information from, but it's false...

Sorry but you did decline that gallery...and I'm not raving :)

Edited to clarify...my point about you not being the only tgp was regarding the fact that you are not the only tgp having an adverse affect on this business...just the biggest tgp.

That gallery sucks.... no offense - why not make your links yellow, you'd make alot more that way....

Kush: Well, I think the point that eros was trying to make is that his gallery isn't super obnoxious with bright yellow banners flashing "CLICK HERE" in size 7 font.

His gallery is super clean with good quality pics. Not to mention you can tell he put lots of time making it look that way. Any TGP that would reject a gallery like that needs to re-evaluate their acceptance requirements.

I don't deal with tgp's because I can't keep everyone's rules straight. Lot's of work and lots of blood suckers. I do only search engine traffic. What kills me is that I see conversions going down across the board. ARS bombs in the middle of the week, but generally pulls out later. MaxCash doesn't convert nearly as well, and even though they claim they have "Real Time" stats, they usually don't filter through until midnight - all at once - imagine if everyone really signed up at midnight every single night (NOT!)! Silvercash is another one. They convert only a few sites very well. The rest is a waste of fucking time. They're all driving me nuts! How can you not convert the shit out of targeted search engine traffic??? WTF???? These surfers don't even know that the Hun and tgp's exist!

Thanks allsops and that was exactly my point regarding that gallery.

When I'm told my ads are "huge" that just cracks me up only to find other galleries that same exact day with huge fucking half page and full page ads thrown in there.

Or to tell me that he likes to link to new pictures daily.

I understand it's his site he gets to make the rules I have no problem with that....but to claim that tgps are in no way competing with paysites directly or indirectly just doesn't hold water.


and kush...there's nothing wrong with that gallery...sorry the links weren't yellow...LOL

Jesus h christ that little girl in the teegeepee.com gallery was cute. Nice pussy. I swear to god i just jerked off all over myself and didnt have to pay a cent. And that one was even declined by the hun? wow ;)

Hey hun, here's an idea ... if you blame it all on sponsors and not yourself, how about you keep the same guidelines you have now but quit haveing webmasters pay you to put up a banner on your page and just use a sponsor yourself? Put yourself in the same position you are putting all other webmasters in. Or is it that you know it would be suicide?

I say ban all tgp's as it is killing the industry. The beer analogy sucks and when I go to a store they dont give me a free fucking 9 course thanksgiving dinner each time i go so that I dont need to even go into the muther fucker. For the people who feed into this 'build build build' for the tgp's thing just to make the quick buck, I say bite me. You killing me as well as youself not even in the long run, but the short run. :321GFY

I also say that console hell is bullshit whether by a sponsor or a regular webmaster, as the hun was correct about that in this instance. Especially when some of those links dont even go to the referring webmaster upon signup but instead go to the very sponsors private acct that you are desperately sending traffic to in hopes of paying rent. Thanks to console hell, the anti-popup shareware program business is flourishing. IF you really want to make money you should probably quit the porn biz and make one of those. :Graucho

Lastly, I personally dont know whether Ibill is better or worse than any other but I am willing to believe the webmasters who do. ARS, just change it back to Jettis already and make everyone happy. Then that at least kills one conspiracy theory whether right or wrong. ;)

Oh yea ... a ratio of anything over 1:200 is bullshit. All a webmaster can do is get someone to the sponsor. Once they are handed off to the sponsor, FOR THE LOVE OF FUCKING GOD IT IS THE SPONSORS RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE THEM BUY!!!!

Sorry, just had to vent that.

ARS like EVERY other program,shaves hits and signups.The amount of time free site webmasters worry about conversion ratios when they should be worried about how their clicks being counted is freakin AMAZING!! Every program of size has standard algarithoms either based on time or amount of clicks or amount of signups or a combination of the three that rewards in reverse Robin Hood mode...robbing from the poor to give to the rich,promoting the potentially successfull at the cost of the cummy.

Whats even more incredilble is that no one says a peep when pay per trial programs like ARS and Max Cash give access to members to ALL their sites in their members areas in an attempt to better conversion from trial and promote retention,by doing this they remove the paying surfer from the pool of potential buyers that the free site webmaster has access too...talk about screwing your webmasters!!

Does that surprise you that this is the first post from this guy? lol

Who cares how many times Ive posted, Answer the question man.Dont you have the balls,doesnt giving access to all your sites in the members area SCREW your webmasters?!?!

how does giving access to all their sites screw webmasters? come on, they have to make money. they're giving u 35 bux for someone that pays a trial membership. if u don't like it, use % program.

giving access to all their sites should help retain members, and thats the only way they're gonna be able to pay 30+ for a $3 trial. no retention or upsells means negative cash flow and eventually bankruptcy.

aaa DUH...that is the point! Use another program.PLENTY of pay per trial sponsors are happy not to remove the potential paying customers from the pool and STILL can pay the 35 bucks...use the ones that Do!!

if they want to upsell i don't have a problem with that. hell they damn well should give them access to all sites. its 40 bux a month, i know i would want access to everything. do u really think somoene is going to buy 2 memberships to their paysites? thats 80 bux a month right there.

if they dont make money, u won't be making shit.

So then I guess sponsors should cut out the free webmaster all together based on that theory .BTW that move is WELL underway....cost for acquisition is driving large companies out of business.Did anybody here about I Gallery. It basically doesn?t exist any longer,46 employees laid off last week. California office moved to bolder. I guess the active model without free trials didn?t work. Believe me EVERY DAY, in the large offices of the bigger companies in this biz,signing up surfers with out having to pay free site webmasters,reducing cost of acquisition ,is the TOPIC OF THE DAY. So fine relinquish the member to the sponsor for an additional week or two,better relearn the fry o lator pal.

fry o lator??
:eek7

Console hell does not necessarily equal one or two little popups when you leave a site. Popup hell is when you can't get out and have to reboot your computer - screens that open up fully, max out your resources, and make you wish you were surfing for tennis shoes instead. ARS has the least intrusive popups that I've seen yet. Max Cash borders on popup hell, and the spy cam shit makes me want to scream every time I see it. They create the mess and then offer to "sell" you a way out. Believe me, ARS has the most respectable popups in the industry. If you don't want the stuff, just exit out and it does go away.

cut out the free webmaster? where the hell did u get this from? they are paying free site webmasters. are u saying they shouldn't be allowed to upsell? they shouldn't upsell 1 on 1 live sex shows, pay per minute videos, or offer additional sites to try and retain the member that they paid u $35 bux for? u even get paid if the surfer cancels after the $3 trial or even if they chargeback. plus they have to pay expenses.

fry o lator? that some new george foreman grill? :Hollering

HAHA, wow...ok some stuff has really been strirred up in this little B.S. thread of mine....Time to add a few comments while under the influence (against my better judgement, but oh well.)


The Hun: As far as being a TGP which tries to help the webmaster generate sales and keep your own income stable as well, you're the best at it. Your sponsor rule with popups (seeing as your traffic is LARGELY made of bookmarks) is great to make sure that when something catches a Hun surfer's eyes...they won't think two/three times about clicking it. With the exception of a few others, no other TGP holds such high, unbending standards. Your traffic is good...and I've made MANY sales with it.

But again, Marc has a very valid point. If more TGPs focused on getting galleries that showed decent content (not much penatration/hardcore...teaser style), that had a minimal amount of outclick areas (which is a HUGE factor in ALL tgp acceptance models...becuase it can make or break a large tgp), and was simply clean in style and unique in design...rather than using the amount of hardcore etc that a gallery has as a wieght against other quality teaser galleries, everyone would be making MUCH more money.

Do you think your loyal surfers would simply leave if you were more likely to list alot of quality teaser galleries with a handful of hardcore ones mixed in there ( a priviledge only available to maybe your paid gallery listings - awesome extra bonus in my book)?

:2 cents:

Wouldn't work. Nice thing about the setup now is that I don't have to worry about sponsors that don't pay, shave or whatever. I know there are people buying ads on my page month after month, sending all traffic to an affiliate program. And they don't renew their ad if they'd loose money. So it would work and looking at my click logs I won't do any less then I'm doing now. But it would mean a lot more work and worries. And I just don't need/want that...

The Hun:

In other words, you just said exactly what I said ... it would be suicide for you. You don't want to be in the same position you put everyone else in.

Joe Surfer: The hun doesnt put anyone in any position unless he got hot reviewing galleries and needs some relief. If you were in his shoes you would do the same...less work/worries & more bling bling.

I'm still curious about the teaser gallery question though.....

lets see less risk and u get paid up front. its not like he's twisting advertisers arms to buy the ad space. if they don't like the results they won't be sticking around.